Jump to content

Why do Tyrion and Littlefinegr get shit on for being attracted to Sansa, but Harrold and the other Vale knights don't?


Alyn Oakenfist

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I want to add to my point actually. Let's pretend Sansa was 20. Period. Just let's pretend she was 20. Her interaction with Harry was clearly mutual. Her interaction with Littlefinger is clearly predatory. Sansa is uncomfortable/scared of Littlefinger. He treats her as an object/thing he can own. He manipulates her situation to force her to be with him and lies about things to control her. Tyrion, who again I don't see many railing on because he decided to go against what people wanted with her and treat her wishes with respect, was in an arranged marriage with her that she clearly didn't want. He was sexually interested in someone who had been treated as chattel by the Lannisters since they first interacted with her. She was essentially scared of what was going to happen. Do you remember the chapter? She was scared. Again, I am not treating Tyrion the same as Littlefinger here. He made good choices, and he was a victim in the situation with Sansa as well (although not nearly as much of a victim as Sansa was). However, comparing Littlefinger (a clearly predatory situation) to Harry (a clearly mutual situation) just doesn't make sense even if we take age out of it. 

YES!!! That would actually make sense. Make her 18 or 17 and it works too. Thanks for elaborating!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

he clearly is a pedophile..like a textbook pedophile..as written by the author to be acting in creepy controlling behaviors toward a chid

I get it. LF does all that. I don't think he is meant to be a textbook paedophile (as in, attracted to children generally) - I think he's a fantasy evil character who is perving over one specific child who looks like the woman he's been obsessed with his entire life. It is still the same crime of course.

3 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I want to add to my point actually. Let's pretend Sansa was 20. Period.

Not really following this. Why are we pretending Sansa is 20?

3 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Just let's pretend she was 20. Her interaction with Harry was clearly mutual. Her interaction with Littlefinger is clearly predatory.

To her certain knowledge, LF is an unpredictable, powerful man who murders his own friends and allies when he feels like it. He is also the man who is hiding her from the law and the death penalty. She says (I think) she feels like she's walking on slippery ice.

All that makes it impossible to say that she is experiencing a mutual attraction to Harry. She is being coerced. It's LF she needs to please.

At best you could say it's an arranged match that might work out later. At worse, she's being pimped out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/1/2020 at 5:16 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So let's just agree that Sansa is one place where you can see just how fucked the timeline is on occasion, as Sansa at 13, having barely gotten her menstrual cycle, is considered to be sexually attractive. This is particularly obvious in the ball at the beginning of TWOW. So why is this double standard where a good part of this forum is screaming pedophile at Tyrion and Littlefinger (and remember Tyrion didn't do anything and had every political incentive to do it) while nobody even comments at Harrold and the Vale knights?

Isn't Harrold close in age with Sansa .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

At best you could say it's an arranged match that might work out later. At worse, she's being pimped out.

Frankly, I assumed she was being pimped out. Also, that Sansa knew it and felt very little affection towards Harry (the Braggart) Heir. Sansa seemed, to me at least, to regard flirting with him as a chore with moments of enjoyment as she watched him fall to her manipulations. That's not at all creepy...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the balance of power is really what makes a difference here, Sansa is essentially a prisoner to both Tyrion, by being a prisoner of the Lannisters in general, and Littlefinger, by not having anywhere else to go partly because of being wanted by the Crown for Littlefinger actions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Springwatch said:

All that makes it impossible to say that she is experiencing a mutual attraction to Harry

 

6 hours ago, zandru said:

Frankly, I assumed she was being pimped out. Also, that Sansa knew it and felt very little affection towards Harry (the Braggart) Heir. Sansa seemed, to me at least, to regard flirting with him as a chore with moments of enjoyment as she watched him fall to her manipulations. That's not at all creepy...

"Good white teeth" , "Nicest of dimples when he smiles"

We get inside her thoughts people.... We know she's attracted to him physically at least......

And the coercion is also under the orders of the Pedo LF....... Harry is not in the loop...... He is more of a victim of the situation than Sansa as he is the intended target.....

Yet nobody here is gonna sympathize with the guy........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/2/2020 at 10:35 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

Lysa has auburn hair, not ginger. It's not at all impossible for an auburn haired person and a blond to produce a brown haired child. Plus, this is fantasy genetics we're talking about.

Ok...... Let's wait for the next book for confirmation......hehe.... If we live to see it....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are 13 year old girls who really look a lot older, there were girls at school that I studied at that same age and they seemed to be 15 or 16 years old, some people mature faster than others, with men in books this also happens, Robb shouldn't have a stocky build with many muscles at age 15. Sansa wears the clothes Lysa wore at 17. It's heavy to read, old men chasing little girls, but it's nothing new, we watched the same story with Dany, which seemed to me worse than Sansa's case, so I'm not too shocked by that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Orm said:

"Good white teeth" , "Nicest of dimples when he smiles"

We get inside her thoughts people.... We know she's attracted to him physically at least......

A nice smile is a good start - it sweetens the pill, that's all.

13 hours ago, Orm said:

And the coercion is also under the orders of the Pedo LF....... Harry is not in the loop...... He is more of a victim of the situation than Sansa as he is the intended target.....

Yet nobody here is gonna sympathize with the guy........

I could, but I usually think of his exes and their babies first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

A nice smile is a good start - it sweetens the pill, that's all

Seems to me this is what most noble women get, if they are lucky in westeros.... Not unlike her mum......

 

17 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

could, but I usually think of his exes and their babies first.

Doesn't change the fact that he is the primary victim in this situation.... Does it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Orm said:

.... Not unlike her mum......

Ha. I wasn't aware Lord Eddard was known for his "smile". He was "the quiet wolf", always serious.

3 minutes ago, Orm said:

Doesn't change the fact that he is the primary victim in this situation.... Does it?

It does, in that some may say Harry deserves it. (Well, I would, at any rate.)

Of course, Harry with his youthful testosterone overload and upjumped lordly arrogance is no comparison to mild, friendly, near-common Petyr Baelish, who is setting you up for a bloody death or near-lethal disgrace all the while he drinks your wine and promises enduring allegiance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, zandru said:

Ha. I wasn't aware Lord Eddard was known for his "smile". He was "the quiet wolf", always serious.

I meant Cat's original to be spouse..... Brandon "wild wolf" Stark....

 

2 minutes ago, zandru said:

does, in that some may say Harry deserves it.

Now if I say, Cersei deserved more than a light raping and few smacks from Robert..... What would you say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Orm said:

Now if I say, Cersei deserved more than a light raping and few smacks from Robert..... What would you say?

I'd say there's no similarity between the two cases, and that I don't condone violence against women, particularly sexual violence, and when it's administered by a man three times her weight and half a meter taller. And also, once again, there's no comparison between politically motivated flirting and battery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Harry wants Alayne.

Didn't get the impression that he wanted her initially, until the honeycocking......

 

3 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Ridiculous comparison.

 

2 minutes ago, zandru said:

I'd say there's no similarity between the two cases, and that I don't condone violence against women, particularly sexual violence, and when it's administered by a man three times her weight and half a meter taller. And also, once again, there's no comparison between politically motivated flirting and battery.

Not making a comparison..... Just presenting a moral pretense that women are always the victim no matter what......

Harry deserves to be used as a stalking horse cause he is a frat boy.

Yet Cersei doesn't deserve to be smacked or abused by Robert no matter how much of a horrible hoe she is to him.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Orm said:

Just presenting a moral pretense that women are always the victim no matter what......

Harry deserves to be used as a stalking horse cause he is a frat boy.

Yet Cersei doesn't deserve to be smacked or abused by Robert no matter how much of a horrible hoe she is to him.....

More fake equivalences. Harry isn't being abandoned with a baby to take care of for the rest of his life, like the girls/women he had his fun with. And Cersei, although horrible, doesn't deserve being battered or raped. King Robert isn't much good at "using his words", much less creativity or solutions other than killing, unfortunately. Cersei didn't need to be a hateful witch, if he'd been even a decent husband.

And assuming there's a bias that "women are always the victims" is vaguely misogynistic. It's true that women are more likely to be "the victim" due to

  • they are generally smaller  in size and less muscular
  • they're generally less trained or experienced in the fighting skills
  • they have this weird reproduction system where what's just "good fun" for the man can end them up with a dependent for life, and in Westeros, frequently dying in the process.

Well, I guess I must be biased - or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/1/2020 at 10:16 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So let's just agree that Sansa is one place where you can see just how fucked the timeline is on occasion, as Sansa at 13, having barely gotten her menstrual cycle, is considered to be sexually attractive. This is particularly obvious in the ball at the beginning of TWOW. So why is this double standard where a good part of this forum is screaming pedophile at Tyrion and Littlefinger (and remember Tyrion didn't do anything and had every political incentive to do it) while nobody even comments at Harrold and the Vale knights?

Tyrion's one of the 5 main characters of the series, of course his behaviour is going to be more notable than a character who did not exist to the fandom till book no5.

Littlefinger has been around since the start, and while not a POV character, his behaviour towards Sansa is slightly more insidious than most characters commenting on her appearance or charm.

Also Sansa is 11 when Tyrion meets her, probably 12 when Littlefinger does. She's 14, or almost 14 when Harry meets her and he might actually think she a little older than she is given I don't think it has been confirmed how old Littlefinger's bastard is meant to be.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...