Aldarion Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 ...makes no sense. He was planning to take on Westeros with 40 000 Dothraki. But Dothraki are not Mongols, and even 40 000 Mongols would not be that much of a threat in Westeros - certainly not an insurmountable one. And this is before considering that Dothraki hate the sea, and apparently are afraid to cross it. This Mongols were definitely not - it took two typhoons for them to give up on invading Japan. Talk about bad luck. So what would make Viserys think that a single khalassar would be enough to seat him on the Iron Throne? And even if Varys had actually set Viserys up and expected Aegon and GC to sweep in as saviours, how would that work? Again, there are only 40 000 Dothraki, whereas Westerosi forces will have numbered around 400 000 troops. Dothraki will have been outnumbered 10-1, which means that Golden Company will not have been necessary to begin with. While Wot5K civil war situation can be assumed, even then, any single kingdom (or at most, any two kingdoms) would have been enough to crush the Dothraki. Again, no need for Golden Company - and if situation is bad enough that there is need for Golden Company, there would be no need for Dothraki for Aegon to appear as a saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Simple answer: Viserys was a vain idiot who did not know two shits about warfare...... Varys's goal was never to crown him but use him as a stalking horse... I am sure someone else would give you the long complex answer......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Viserys wasn't big on planning. No matter how entitled he felt, walking in on a Dothraki feast and threatening their khalessi with a sword was a terrible idea with zero forethought. 1. Marry your sister to a Dothraki warlord 2. ???? 3. Profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Aldarion said: ...makes no sense. He was planning to take on Westeros with 40 000 Dothraki. But Dothraki are not Mongols, and even 40 000 Mongols would not be that much of a threat in Westeros - certainly not an insurmountable one. And this is before considering that Dothraki hate the sea, and apparently are afraid to cross it. This Mongols were definitely not - it took two typhoons for them to give up on invading Japan. Talk about bad luck. So what would make Viserys think that a single khalassar would be enough to seat him on the Iron Throne? And even if Varys had actually set Viserys up and expected Aegon and GC to sweep in as saviours, how would that work? Again, there are only 40 000 Dothraki, whereas Westerosi forces will have numbered around 400 000 troops. Dothraki will have been outnumbered 10-1, which means that Golden Company will not have been necessary to begin with. While Wot5K civil war situation can be assumed, even then, any single kingdom (or at most, any two kingdoms) would have been enough to crush the Dothraki. Again, no need for Golden Company - and if situation is bad enough that there is need for Golden Company, there would be no need for Dothraki for Aegon to appear as a saviour. Not to mention that Robert Baratheon defeated a force of 40,000 with a smaller force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 41 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: Viserys wasn't big on planning. No matter how entitled he felt, walking in on a Dothraki feast and threatening their khalessi with a sword was a terrible idea with zero forethought. 1. Marry your sister to a Dothraki warlord 2. ???? 3. Profit He was also drunk at the time. That might have played a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Not to mention that Robert Baratheon defeated a force of 40,000 with a smaller force. Well then we had Robert 'Demon of the Trident' Baratheon...... And now we have Robert 'Too fat for his armour' Baratheon...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Tbf, he thought the realm would rise up for him. I guess the Dothraki were just supposed to get the ball rolling. Though was anyone under the impression that Viserys was smart and rational (except Viserys)? ETA: btw he thought he'd only need 10,000 men lololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said: Tbf, he thought the realm would rise up for him. I guess the Dothraki were just supposed to get the ball rolling. Though was anyone under the impression that Viserys was smart and rational (except Viserys)? ETA: btw he thought he'd only need 10,000 men lololol True, the deal was for 10,000. And he thought he could command them, yet had no strength of arms (that's on him being an idiot, especially since the Dothraki only worship strength). Doran must have been under that impression, why else did he have Oberyn betroth Arianne to him? And Viserys was a fool if he thought the Stormlands, the North, the Vale and the Riverlands (to give a few examples) would rise for him, considering that the Stormlands are where Robert (the person Viserys wanted dead the most) is from and the crimes Aerys and his son committed against the Starks by burning their lord in a mockery of trial by combat, the slow death of Brandon by forced self-strangulation, and the kidnap and rape of Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Getting major lords together could be a nice political opportunity if played right (talking to you House Tyrell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Viserys's main problem was Viserys. The man could not lead a flock of ducks, let alone an army, let alone succesfully defeating the STABL coalition. And while I'm sure that some loyalists would indeed rise for a Targaryen pretender, no one in his right state of mind that spent half an hour around Viserys would march against Robert, Stannis, Jaime, Tywin and Eddard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 It is pretty clear that Varys and Illyrio planned to have the Baratheons rip each other apart - as they did - and taking down the Lannisters with them by revealing the twincest story at the right moment. With careful planning Drogo and his Dothraki may have just been the props to make Viserys III look strong so basically the entire Realm is fine with a Targaryen restoration without much fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aline de Gavrillac Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 No, the Dothraki would not be able to conquer Westeros if they were led by Viserys. His very smart little sister figured it out. But Viserys does not have to actually lead the conquest. He is just a figurehead. People such as Jorah and Drogo will plan the battles. The Dothraki will be able to conquer Westeros. The Martells and perhaps the Tyrells (early on) would have supported a Targaryen restoration. It all worked out for the better because the restoration will now be led by Queen Daenerys Targaryen, the true heir to the Iron Throne, the Mother of Dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 3 hours ago, nyser1 said: Getting major lords together could be a nice political opportunity if played right (talking to you House Tyrell). That's if Mace would talk to Oberyn. He still blames him for Willas' accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 9 hours ago, R2D said: bump Care to explain? I've seen you post this in several threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. D Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Viserys was always susceptible to madness due to his Targaryen blood and showed signs of it since he was a child, and being on the run from imaginary assassins only exacerbated it. He had delusions of grandeur which were sadly brought crashing down to earth. He was abusive and terrible, but I still think he's one of the most tragic characters in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Travis said: Care to explain? I've seen you post this in several threads. It means I'm bumping the thread up so that it affects on the first page of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Do not bump threads. If you have something useful to say, say it, but don't bump them just to try and control the appearance of the first page or because you hope others will notice it without contributing to the thread yourself. This is a bannable offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, Ran said: Do not bump threads. If you have something useful to say, say it, but don't bump them just to try and control the appearance of the first page or because you hope others will notice it without contributing to the thread yourself. This is a bannable offense. Thought so, but felt like it wasn't my place to say anything. So I was hoping he/she would explain/admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Viserys was sure many Westerosi made secret toasts about him. Sure he could get Dorne, Darrys and some others who hated Baratheon/Lannister regime. But he lacked military and leader skills. Add his paranoia and I doubt he set sail in Westeros. Varys would then add Dothraki and Daenerys to Aegon's army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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