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nyser1

Aerys & The Starks

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So Brandon Stark has just come to King's Landing and has threatened your son and heir. You have him arrested. Great.

Now suppose Aerys is has a pause in his insanity and you can insert rationale thoughts in his head:

'What you know:

  • Rhaegar, married and father of two, has disappeared with Lyanna Stark, who has a standing betrothal with Robert Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End. 
  • Brandon and his traveling companions (including Jon Arryn's heir) have been arrested and are in your custody.

What you do not know:

  • Why Rhaegar has done this and whether or not it was willingly or not.
  • How Rickard Stark will react (to Lyanna's disappearance or Brandon's arrest), Robert Baratheon, or Jon Arryn.

 

What do you, "rational" Aerys do to avoid war?

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Not killing them.

Given both that Rhaegar's act was disgraceful and that Aerys had spent years looking for an opportunity to disown Rhaegar without provoking a war.

He could've simply indulged the Starks and publicly disgrace Rhaegar,  the man had no force to fight back.

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1 minute ago, frenin said:

Not killing them.

Given both that Rhaegar's act was disgraceful and that Aerys had spent years looking for an opportunity to disown Rhaegar without provoking a war.

He could've simply indulged the Starks and publicly disgrace Rhaegar,  the man had no force to fight back.

Then what does Rhaegar do? 

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31 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

Then what does Rhaegar do? 

What can he do?? 

The only real support Rhaegar had were the Martells and by him (insert here whatever) with Lyanna, he had burned that ship. 

The STAB alliance would've been pissed, Dorne would've been pissed, Aerys is still the king mad as he is.  He is falling.

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3 hours ago, nyser1 said:

So Brandon Stark has just come to King's Landing and has threatened your son and heir. You have him arrested. Great.

Now suppose Aerys is has a pause in his insanity and you can insert rationale thoughts in his head:

'What you know:

  • Rhaegar, married and father of two, has disappeared with Lyanna Stark, who has a standing betrothal with Robert Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End. 
  • Brandon and his traveling companions (including Jon Arryn's heir) have been arrested and are in your custody.

What you do not know:

  • Why Rhaegar has done this and whether or not it was willingly or not.
  • How Rickard Stark will react (to Lyanna's disappearance or Brandon's arrest), Robert Baratheon, or Jon Arryn.

 

What do you, "rational" Aerys do to avoid war?

I would take this opportunity to prevent Rickard Stark from building his alliances.  Those marriage ties would make Rickard powerful enough to challenge Targaryen rule.  Question Brandon secretly.  Invite Rickard to King's Landing.  Command Rickard to pick different marriage partners for his children.  Rickard and Brandon do not leave King's Landing alive if they refuse to obey.  They leave the city feet first and minus their heads.  Send an assassin to get rid of Robert and Ned. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, frenin said:

What can he do?? 

The only real support Rhaegar had were the Martells and by him (insert here whatever) with Lyanna, he had burned that ship. 

The STAB alliance would've been pissed, Dorne would've been pissed, Aerys is still the king mad as he is.  He is falling.

Rhaegar certainly had a lot of nerve bringing Lyanna to Dorne.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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5 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Invite Rickard to King's Landing.  Command Rickard to pick different marriage partners for his children. 

Even better, choose the bride for Brandon and the husband for Lyanna.  Pick from weaker, minor houses.

Rickard and Brandon do not leave King's Landing alive if they refuse to obey.  They leave the city feet first and minus their heads.  Send an assassin to get rid of Robert and Ned. 

Give them a chance to obey.  Otherwise, they leave the KL in an urn.

 

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Rhaegar gets disowned.......

 

Side-note: will we still get Robert Vs Rhaegar as a bar-fight?

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7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Rhaegar certainly had a lot of nerve bringing Lyanna to Dorne.

He had.

Alternatively, Aerys could just picked Barristan or Jaime to fight for him... instead of fire.

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5 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

 

 

11 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

I would take this opportunity to prevent Rickard Stark from building his alliances.  Those marriage ties would make Rickard powerful enough to challenge Targaryen rule.  Question Brandon secretly.  Invite Rickard to King's Landing.  Command Rickard to pick different marriage partners for his children.  Rickard and Brandon do not leave King's Landing alive if they refuse to obey.  They leave the city feet first and minus their heads.  Send an assassin to get rid of Robert and Ned. 

Thet can't do that, and  that still means war...

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15 hours ago, R2D said:

I would have a trial by combat and have fire as my champion.

Enter Roberts rebellion, and a super weirdly magnificent story that follows after which possibly will never get a ending.....:crying:

 

6 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Exactly what I was thinking or sent to the Wall.

Bobby B and his hammer will go to the wall to freeze his balls off....... just to get Rhaegar.......

Oh wait..... Brandon is alive in this scenerio as well......

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26 minutes ago, Orm said:

Bobby B and his hammer will go to the wall to freeze his balls off....... just to get Rhaegar.......

Oh wait..... Brandon is alive in this scenerio as well......

Why?? Lyanna would've been returned. And unless Robert pretends to take the Black, i doubt the man understands the word celibacy. He can't do more

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15 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

I would take this opportunity to prevent Rickard Stark from building his alliances.  Those marriage ties would make Rickard powerful enough to challenge Targaryen rule.  Question Brandon secretly.  Invite Rickard to King's Landing.  Command Rickard to pick different marriage partners for his children.  Rickard and Brandon do not leave King's Landing alive if they refuse to obey.  They leave the city feet first and minus their heads.  Send an assassin to get rid of Robert and Ned. 

King Aerys II cannot allow Rickard Stark and Robert Baratheon to put themselves in positions to challenge him.  I do believe in giving them a chance to obey.  And if they refuse to obey and change their plans, then yes, they must be executed.  

10 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

Give them a chance to obey.  Otherwise, they leave the KL in an urn

Definitely give them a chance to do right and obey their king.  Make them share one urn if they defy Aerys' command.

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If Aerys had a rational thought he would not have taken Rickard hostage.  Brandon has a whole lot on his plate here.  His father and sister are both being held prisoner.  Brandon's initial statements display his urgent frustration.  Aerys' son and heir has been called out by a northern punk.  Who is this guy to challenge the heir to the Iron Throne?  The best thing he might have done was to free Rickon and appeal to Rhaegar (provided he actually knew where he was).  A sit down problem solving meeting could have been held.  The point is Aerys was not rational and prone to abuse his power at this point in upheaval.  

Every action after the Tourney at Harrenhal seems to be reactive in a sort of mad cycle of revenge.  While we can all appreciate Brandon Stark's grief and fear and outrage, he acted essentially alone, seeming to have no real plan.   Would have ended better had he calmed down and come up with a better plan to overthrow Aerys.  Taking Rickard prisoner is a point of no return.  

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24 minutes ago, frenin said:

Why?? Lyanna would've been returned. And unless Robert pretends to take the Black, i doubt the man understands the word celibacy. He can't do more

Meant it as joke/jab/pun dude/dudette......

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On 8/1/2020 at 4:57 PM, frenin said:

What can he do?? 

The only real support Rhaegar had were the Martells and by him (insert here whatever) with Lyanna, he had burned that ship. 

The STAB alliance would've been pissed, Dorne would've been pissed, Aerys is still the king mad as he is.  He is falling.

This is valid within this logic train and I thank you for it.

 

I have thought about this more. Historically, the Starks (like the Dornish and Ironborn) appear to be viewed as more barbaric or less civilized than the rest of the Seven Kingdoms in the heart of Andal Westeros. The Targaryens seem to view themselves as on top of this group, as the top of the food chain and in a league of their own. If Aerys already looks down upon the Dornish, I suspect he might view the Northerners as barbaric as well.

 

But suspicions aside, a more robust argument comes in the form of precedent set. Yes, Aerys was interested in possibly replacing Rhaegar with Viserys. Regardless, the son of one of his vassals had the nerve to threaten his son and heir. To fail to chastise Brandon (at the very least) would likely be perceived as weak and allowing his power to be challenged. How might Aerys appease the Starks while still either punishing Brandon and/or defeating the "challenge" to the Dragon?

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34 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

This is valid within this logic train and I thank you for it.

 

I have thought about this more. Historically, the Starks (like the Dornish and Ironborn) appear to be viewed as more barbaric or less civilized than the rest of the Seven Kingdoms in the heart of Andal Westeros. The Targaryens seem to view themselves as on top of this group, as the top of the food chain and in a league of their own. If Aerys already looks down upon the Dornish, I suspect he might view the Northerners as barbaric as well.

 

But suspicions aside, a more robust argument comes in the form of precedent set. Yes, Aerys was interested in possibly replacing Rhaegar with Viserys. Regardless, the son of one of his vassals had the nerve to threaten his son and heir. To fail to chastise Brandon (at the very least) would likely be perceived as weak and allowing his power to be challenged. How might Aerys appease the Starks while still either punishing Brandon and/or defeating the "challenge" to the Dragon?

Hardly, Lyonel Baratheon rebelled and seceded, after his defeat in a trial by combat, he still got the apologize of the King, the hand of the King's daughter for his own heir and said daughter being sent to Storm's End as companion of Lyonel's wife, Read as hostage against the King. Egg didn't lose reputation for that.

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