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Stonehearts religion


Hugorfonics

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On 8/4/2020 at 11:23 PM, sweetsunray said:

It was a Stark wolf who pulled her ashore. The red priest didn't want anything to do with it. But one-eyed Beric who has a weirwood throne made of weirwood roots in a hollow hill sacrificed his life for her.

 

On 8/5/2020 at 6:36 AM, sweetsunray said:

R'hllorism is not monotheistic, but dualistic. And so is the Drowned God religion. Each recognizes two gods, but one is a benefactor while the other is a hostile god.

  • R'hllor versus his anti-thesis The Great Other
  • Drowned God versus his enemy the Storm God

So, red priests and Ironborn believe in the existence of two gods, but worship only one of those two, while the other is believed to be a hostile evil god.

 

On 8/5/2020 at 7:12 AM, sweetsunray said:

"I do not know who we are, if truth be told, nor where we might be going. I only know the road is dark. The fires have not shown me what lies at its end."[...] He looked down at his ragged robes, and smiled ruefully. "The pink pretender, rather. I am Thoros, late of Myr, aye . . . a bad priest and a worse wizard."  [...] "Lightning comes and goes and then is seen no more. So too with men. Lord Beric's fire has gone out of this world, I fear. A grimmer shadow leads us in his place." [...] "This is a cave, not a temple." [...] (aFfC, Brienne VIII)

Would it be ok if I become the president of your fan club? I think you have hit on some important insights here, the gist of which is dualism and the nature of religion after death.

There are little odds and ends of each religion that GRRM puts before us but doesn't fully explain. I think they go to a duality in each religion:

  • If Melisandre is so devoted to the red god, the power of fire, and holding off the dark of the night (which is full or terrors), why does Stannis focus on praise for her ability to make shadows?
  • Thoros has no idea why he is able to revive Ser Beric after death. He instinctively tries some things and is surprised that they seem to "cure" Dondarrion and bring him back to life.
  • The Stark children climb trees and play in the branches, but they also spend a fair amount of time underground, in the Winterfell crypt. Underground is where roots grow.
  • When Theon returns to Pyke, his uncle Aeron confronts him about whether he has become "green" and then re-baptizes (I know that's not an ASOIAF word but it describes the ritual) him with seawater, taking him back for the Drowned God. As Theon kneels, he thinks about the dirt on his breeches as the seawater cascades over his head - unlike most young men dedicating themselves to the drowned god, he has not walked into the sea for the ritual, he is kneeling on land. There are details that create a parallel between this moment in Theon's story and the story of Torrhen Stark who knelt for Aegon the Conqueror.
  • A Catelyn POV tells us that there is a door between life and death. The crone can look through that door and ravens can fly back and forth through the door.
  • The direwolves somehow appear south of the Wall. I know that the wolves are not explicitly religious representatives, but they seem to be part of the old gods milieu that is unique to the faithful House Stark. The pups are found near a bridge. I didn't really group the direwolf pups with this list of unexplained religious incidents until you pointed out that the direwolf Nymeria is the one who pulls Catelyn out of the river, allowing the Brotherhood without Banners to discover her corpse.

Furthermore, I think there are a couple of gods that have been downplayed but may be playing a strong role in the lives of some characters.

  • As some of the comments here have pointed out, Ser Beric Dondarrion is the Lightning Lord and may be an heir of the Storm God. I know that House Baratheon ostensibly took this title and bloodline, but I think it may be like Garth Greenhands, where House Gardner gave way to House Florent and House Tyrell and maybe some others that claim to be the true heirs. Dondarrion sounds like Durrandon, the House seat is in the stormlands, they predate the conquest and the sigil has storm-related imagery. I think the heir of the storm god is a key role in ASOIAF and the author has covertly worked it into plot lines. Who will succeed Robert Baratheon and/or Beric Dondarrion?
  • When she returns to Riverrun, Catelyn sleeps in her father's ornate carved bed with lots of fish and river imagery. Although everyone knows that Edmure is the heir, Catelyn POVs remind us that she was raised to be the heir before the birth of Edmure. I think sleeping in Hoster's bed is an immersive experience for Catelyn in an undescribed river religion, much like the seawater blessing renews Theon's connection to the drowned god. GRRM has made a point of saying that there are still followers of the old gods in the riverlands but we know that House Tully (and Catelyn in particular) is all in for the new gods. But what if there is not just a weirwood element at the center of the old gods, but also a river aspect? It would be consistent with the Tully cremation ritual, which takes place on a river. Catelyn may not consciously acknowledge that she is having a religious experience, but the proof may be in her later "what's dead can never die" resurrection from the river.

So what is the larger point? I think GRRM may be giving us a flip side to each religion that becomes the focus for devout people who have died.

We have been looking at the old gods as if it is all one religion but I think GRRM makes a distinction between branches/leaves and roots. As you point out, the "throne" of the Brotherhood without Banners is in a hollow hill and is made of roots. The above-ground tree is no longer relevant; it's all about the roots.

This could explain a lot of Patchface's after-death explanations of things under the sea - he is describing the underside of religion.

Thoros is such an unusual character. He doesn't seem like a major role-player, but we know that he was first through the wall at Pyke (along with Ser Jorah) during the Greyjoy Rebellion and that he won the melee at the Hand's Tourney. Crossing a wall is a big deal in ASOIAF and probably represents a symbolic death or, like a raven, the ability to travel back and forth through the door between life and death. I think Thoros gets his power to revive certain dead people from that special moment of breaching the wall at Pyke.

But he probably can't revive just anyone. He revives the heir of the storm god who, in turn, revives the heir of the river god. (With help from a direwolf.)

But you also cite that key scene where Brienne is recovering from being hanged by the Brotherhood without Banners. In my opinion, she died during that hanging - for real or symbolically. She then goes underground with Thoros and he tells her that he is no longer the same priest he used to be, he feeds her, she loves the food and she feels a renewed strength. So how does Thoros have the power to revive Brienne if he can (my theory) revive people only if they are heirs of the ancient deities? Brienne is not the storm god and, if Catelyn is the river god, then Brienne probably cannot be the river god at the same time.

I'm not sure yet what kind of god Brienne might be, but the possibilities are tantalizing. We know she is a descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall, and he was compared to The Warrior (as was Daemon Blackfyre). Brienne could easily be the new embodiment of The Warrior, but she could also be The Maiden. Maybe her strong association with sapphires is a clue: Melisandre uses rubies to conjure the illusion that a "dead" man is a glamour; could sapphires also project a magical body or appearance of revival?

When Brienne shows up at Pennytree and persuades Jaime to come away with her, he has just observed the complicated root system snaking out from the tree. Has he and/or Brienne just crossed over to the root aspect of the old gods religion? Jaime's companion to this destination was Hoster ("the hostage") Blackwood, from a House associated with dark magic and the old gods because of Bloodraven's maternal roots.

There may be another element that is emerging from the evidence here: people who observe elements from more than one religion.

  • Theon flows over the Walls of Winterfell with the Ironborn (followers of the drowned god) but he comes up from the Dread Fort dungeon (where roots live) under the escort of Little and Big Walder (root eaters - Bran sent them a dish of turnips at the harvest feast). So he has elements of the Drowned God but also the Old Gods in his death / rebirth / belief system. (When he was growing up at Winterfell, he remembers hiding his treasures in the gods wood.)
  • Catelyn follows the new gods but married into a family following the old gods. She doesn't feel at home in the gods wood at Winterfell but I think she is the POV who tells readers about the water that flows between the double walls of the castle - the river is there, but hidden. She is from the Riverlands and the author has told us that belief in the old gods remains strong there among some people. After her death, she takes over the throne of roots hidden in the hill.
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37 minutes ago, Seams said:

But you also cite that key scene where Brienne is recovering from being hanged by the Brotherhood without Banners. In my opinion, she died during that hanging - for real or symbolically. She then goes underground with Thoros and he tells her that he is no longer the same priest he used to be, he feeds her, she loves the food and she feels a renewed strength. So how does Thoros have the power to revive Brienne if he can (my theory) revive people only if they are heirs of the ancient deities? Brienne is not the storm god and, if Catelyn is the river god, then Brienne probably cannot be the river god at the same time.

Slight correction: Brienne was recovering from her bite by Biter in the cave. It's after the talk with Thoros that she's brought before LS and is hanged.

ETA: I'll explain why that is important in next post as overall response to your post.

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3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Slight correction: Brienne was recovering from her bite by Biter in the cave. It's after the talk with Thoros that she's brought before LS and is hanged.

ETA: I'll explain why that is important in next post as overall response to your post.

My bad. I am overdue for a re-read.

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Ok, my response will complement your observations.

The moment that Brienne arrives at Maidenpool (the first time), she begins a voyage like Dante's in purgatory and hell. She meets nothing but sinners, even on the holy island. Some are too sinful to be redeemed, others are. There are numerous references to Dante's work and nine circles of hell in her chapter of her voyage after Maidenpool. At the crossroads, she arrives at the central circle. In Dante's work on hell, the last circle is a frozen lake in which the devil is trapped. He has three heads, and uses these to eat the worst sinners:

  • oathbreakers (especially to their souvereign)
  • guest right breakers
  • kinslayers
  • kingslayers

In Inferno, Dante uses Brutus (assassin of Caesar) and Judas (betrayer of Jesus) as people whom he sees being eaten by the heads of Satan.

Notice that these are the biggest moral crimes in Westeros and for which LS hangs people. Brienne is accused of oathbreaking. The Freys broke guest right. Jaime is a kingslayer and oathbreaker in her eyes.

While Dante is solely a witness to it all, Brienne gets pulled into the sinner plot - she get chewed on in a similar manner as Satan eats the worst sinners in the 9th circle. Sure, Brienne did search for Cat's daughters, but along the way she has started to see it more and more as an oath to Jaime, and she never truly pondered how she would bring the daughters to safety if she ever found them, because she believes she can never return them to Cat. Her life is in the balance, because looking for the daughters when they have no safe home (WF in the hands of the Boltons, RR in the hands of the Freys) is a bigger danger to Cat's daughters than not looking for them is. And her oath to Jaime and Tommen's letter of safe passage pretty much bind her to retrieving Cat's daughters for Cat's enemy. Technically, Brienne is indeed busy to aid the enemy, rather than help the late Catelyn, no matter how well intentioned she is.

Anyway, after being eaten, she ends up in a cave, an entrance into the underworld. Lady Stoneheart does not only look like a face of a weirwood, but also very much like the Scandinavian Hel. In the Norse mythology Hel is both a place as a "goddess". Yggdrasil's three roots end in three different locations. One of them is Hel, a wintery location with many rivers. The ruler of that place, Hel, was Loki's daughter and was thrown into the rivers of Hel. Norse mythology has several Chthonic (underwold) gods: Odin, Freya and Hel. Odin and Freya are at Asgard, each having a palace to welcome the dead slain warriors. Only the warriors of Odin in the hall of Walhalla get to fight during Ragnarok. So, these two basically govern the afterworld that is more heavenlike. It is however "underworld" because one of the three roots of Yggdrasil ends at the well of Walhalla. Hel is the place where the people end up who die of old age (Hoster), illness and the hanged. There are several poems where Odin wants to speak with a dead oracle, and to do this he needs to go to Hel, and unearths the oracle in a grave beneath a hanged man. Odin is however also the god of the hanged men. So, basically the hanged men belong to both Odin and Hel. 

In aSoIaF, I identify the Riverlands with Hel, with Hollow Hill as the Yggdrasil root location, and thus LS (thrown in the river) as the ruler Hel. Winterfell is the second root location with Winterfell and the crypts as a type of Walhalla: see Theon's nightmare in aCoK when he dreams of the dead feasting in the hall, Robb walking in, and of course all those male statues with swords in their laps. Bloodraven's cave is the third root at the well of wisdom.

In a way then, Brienne's hanging is an initiation/hazing ritual. Having been hanged, she now has the asoiaf equivalent of Odin and Hel as master, or the greenseeing Bloodraven (and his successor Bran) and Lady Stoneheart. That's why the full conversion of the BwB will be performed by Bran at Riverrun imo, through the tree. In a way Jaime will return Bran to Catelyn, which is most befitting in Riverrun, because it was there that Catelyn learned of his and Rickon's (fake) death, and took Brienne down to meet with Jaime and set him free. It's possible that Bran not only will intervene in LS's execution of Jaime before the slender weirwood after RW2.0, but that he alerts her of Arya's return to Westeros, about to land in Maidenpool, and Sansa's identity and the news she's about to depart for White Harbor with an army of Vale men under command of Royce. Riverrun is back in the hands of House Tully and the Boltons will be ousted from Winterfell, claimed for Rickon. And only then is it a safe time for Brienne to actually go find Cat's daughters.

ETA: you may be correct with Patchface "turning everything upside down". His perspective is that of the "hanged man". In Tarot this is the card of a man hanging upside down from a (wisdom) tree. This is also how Odin is portrayed as having found wisdom in the wisdom well, and for which he sacrificed an eye. It represents both a time of suffering, but also gaining a new perspective. The "hanged man" therefore symbolizes the person who initially wallows in self-pity because of all the bad stuff done to him, but is about to throw off that mysery and realizes that what is dead may never die.

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1 hour ago, Seams said:

Thoros has no idea why he is able to revive Ser Beric after death. He instinctively tries some things and is surprised that they seem to "cure" Dondarrion and bring him back to life.

If I remember correctly, Thoros wasn’t trying anything, let alone to resurrect Beric. Beric died, and Thoros brought him back while performing the last kiss ritual, but he doesn’t know how or why that happened. Unless I’m misremembering, of course. 

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Just now, kissdbyfire said:

If I remember correctly, Thoros wasn’t trying anything, let alone to resurrect Beric. Beric died, and Thoros brought him back while performing the last kiss ritual, but he doesn’t know how or why that happened. Unless I’m misremembering, of course. 

Yes. He repeats this last kiss ritual ever since, whenever Beric died, and Beric always came back.

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3 hours ago, Seams said:

Theon flows over the Walls of Winterfell with the Ironborn (followers of the drowned god) but he comes up from the Dread Fort dungeon (where roots live) under the escort of Little and Big Walder (root eaters - Bran sent them a dish of turnips at the harvest feast). So he has elements of the Drowned God but also the Old Gods in his death / rebirth / belief system. (When he was growing up at Winterfell, he remembers hiding his treasures in the gods wood.)

Yes, Theon's arc with Winterfell is also part of a conversion story,  not just for him, but also protecting Winterfell from a conversion to anything but the Old Gods.

As you know, in this essay (https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2019/08/09/mirror-mirror-serwyn-reversed/ ) I point out how Bran's arc in aCoK, is one of conversion, both from the Faith's influence as well as the maester's anti-magical rationalism.

It is Theon however who ends up sacrificing Septon Chayle to the Drowned God. On the one hand, that's a heinous crime. Chayle is one of the kindest, most innocent characters walking around in Winterfell. And while Theon was "baptised", he doesn't himself believe in the Drowned God, and he promised Bran not to harm anyone if Bran surrendered, to then drown a man who surrendered without protest in a well, just because his men want it. On the other hand, the last man representing and instructing in the Faith is now gone from WF. Later on, in aSoS, Bran meets Sam coming out of the well at the Nightfort, next to a weirwood. Sam is as kind and innocent as Chayle, and has a thing for books. However, he's a man raised in the Faith, who voluntarily becomes a follower of the Old Gods by making his vows in front of the weirwood. So, a man of Faith was thrown in the WF well, and out comes a converted-to-Old-Gods man at the Nightfort. Maester Luwin's mind is chained by rationalism and no matter what Bran or Rickon or Jojen had as dreams, no matter what a witness from north of the Wall said, he dismissed it as possible. It's not until Theon kills the men Jojen predicted would be "drowned" that Luwin is in a position to start to doubt himself. And it's not until Bran escapes without confiding in Luwin that he starts to recognize that Jojen might have powers the Citadel denies to exist. Eventually, he chooses to die amidst the roots of the weirwood (though he was speared in the yard) and blesses Osha and Jojen and Meera to look out after Rickon and Bran, and thanks the gods. Doing that at a weirwood, implies he thanks the old gods. He's still a rational man, but accepting that he lives in a world where magic is possible. Again, unwittingly Theon is an instrument in converting another, not the Drowned God, but towards the Old Gods. And because Theon trusted Reek, invited Ramsay inside WF, Ramsay was able to burn Winterfell. Bran's last chapter gives hope that WF will be rebuilt some day. But it's quite doubtful that anyone soon will rebuild the Faith's chapel that Ned built for Catelyn. Ramsay burning down WF thus serves to destroy the last remnant of Faith at WF and to cleanse (fire cleanses) WF from the poisoned waters of the Drowned God.

Theon's transformation starts at the Dreadfort, but he's not reborn into the Old Gods until the chapter in aDwD in the godswood of Winterfell when he hears the "Old Gods" (Bran) whisper his name. His response to this is one of almost childlike wonder. This is repeated when the ravens say his name and cry for tree in the tower at the ice lakes with Stannis.

@kissdbyfire has proposed that Theon is set up to voluntarily surrender his mind to be skinchanged by Bran in front of Stannis and his men and of course the Northerners. Bran knows ways into and around the castle of WF that nobody else does. Communicating this knowledge to Stannis is thus important, and there's no way that George mentioned Bran knowing these ways in the chapter where he's pushed out of the tower not to use it at some point (the gun hanging at the wall). Such an event would not just help Stannis strategically, but also protect the WF weirwood from being burned. Jon rejected being lord of WF, because he knew Stannis would have the tree burned as Rh'llorist. With or without Jon's help, Stannis ousting the Boltons of WF poses a danger for the weirwood. This is after all the king who had the faith statues burned at Dragonstone, backed Mel and Selyse burning those men who rebelled against Stannis destroying the sept, and included references to Rh'llor in his banner and personal sigil. Stannis admitted to Davos he doesn't know about gods, but he does believe in magical powers he sees with his own eyes, and Mel proved to have powers (imo in the aCoK prologue, where she imo warned Stannis offscreen the maester would attempt to assassinate her), so he follows her god. aCoK's prologue is a parallel to what happens to maester Luwin, except Cressen denies Mel and Rh'llor with his last breath, while Luwin embraces Jojen, Osha and Old Gods with his last breath. Stannis becomes convinced of fire magic in a similar way that Bran becomes a believer in green magic. However, during his march, he shows that by himself he's not willing to sacrifice people just for the sake of sacrifice. At the very least they must be criminals. Otherwise his men should prey harder. Now, if Stannis were to witness a greenseer/Old Gods miracle that supersedes any of Mel's that was to his advantage, would he still burn the weirwood of WF? He would not.

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On 8/5/2020 at 6:24 PM, Lollygag said:

In the case with Sam, it's much like what Arya does here below. She's always believed in other gods, like Sam. She tries praying to another hoping for better results.

Sam prayed to "whatever might be listening". He was scared as hell and mumbled the words he was taught. Arya too thinks praying is the right move because of her upbringing, but when things work out she doesnt think its the work of the gods like Davos would. 

On 8/5/2020 at 6:24 PM, Lollygag said:

unless we're speaking of a few specific religions

The Drowned God and R'hllor certainly. And Im mostly curious about the followers of R'hllor. 

Quote

"Jon." Melisandre was so close he could feel the warmth of her breath. "R'hllor is the only true god. A vow sworn to a tree has no more power than one sworn to your shoes.

Do you think Cats come to the conclusion that her 7 gods are fake?

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3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Sam prayed to "whatever might be listening". He was scared as hell and mumbled the words he was taught. Arya too thinks praying is the right move because of her upbringing, but when things work out she doesnt think its the work of the gods like Davos would. 

The Drowned God and R'hllor certainly. And Im mostly curious about the followers of R'hllor. 

Do you think Cats come to the conclusion that her 7 gods are fake?

My point is that people in that world believe in the existence of multiple gods yet for the most part, only worship one. The Tully Stark kids would be a notable exception, though most show a preference for one all the same.

I don't think Cat/SH thinks the Seven are fake as other characters don't think that the gods aren't real. But I do think it's a strong possibility that she's written them off as not listening/caring about her because different characters do that. That Beric hangs in weirwood roots when I assume he followed the Seven being a Southerner makes me question whether Stoneheart has much choice or free will in that territory. At one point, Cat thinks she's soft like Lynesse and never became Northern enough. She's stone, now. I'd like to see how the characters reconcile R'hllor and the weirwood thing but we don't get that. I dunno.

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

My point is that people in that world believe in the existence of multiple gods yet for the most part, only worship one. The Tully Stark kids would be a notable exception, though most show a preference for one all the same.

Perhaps some besides the Kids believe in both (I wouldnt really say any of them worship both though, Sansa worships the 7 sure, but imo finds the godswood more tranquil then spiritual) but I think the real religious folk like Bennifer or Sunglass dont acknowledge other gods

Quote

The brothers never asked the outlaws for names. They know, Arya thought. How could they not? Lord Beric wore the lightning bolt on breastplate, shield, and cloak, and Thoros his red robes, or what remained of them. One brother, a young novice, was bold enough to tell the red priest not to pray to his false god so long as he was under their roof. "Bugger that," said Lem Lemoncloak. "He's our god too, and you owe us for your bloody lives. And what's false about him? Might be your Smith can mend a broken sword, but can he heal a broken man?"

"Enough, Lem," Lord Beric commanded. "Beneath their roof we will honor their rules."

"The sun will not cease to shine if we miss a prayer or two," Thoros agreed mildly. "I am one who would know."

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I don't think Cat/SH thinks the Seven are fake as other characters don't think that the gods aren't real. But I do think it's a strong possibility that she's written them off as not listening/caring about her because different characters do that. That Beric hangs in weirwood roots when I assume he followed the Seven being a Southerner makes me question whether Stoneheart has much choice or free will in that territory

Word. Overall Thoros' men are much more understanding then Melisandres. Though itd be pretty cool to watch Catelyn burn the Mother

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

At one point, Cat thinks she's soft like Lynesse and never became Northern enough. She's stone, now. 

Lol, Southron can be hard too

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I'd like to see how the characters reconcile R'hllor and the weirwood thing but we don't get that. I dunno.

Yea that'd be really cool

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I wonder whether the return to Oldstones is a clue about Catelyn / Stoneheart's after-death religion? Before death, Catelyn is strongly associated with the rainbows that are cast by crystals associated with the Faith of the Seven. After her death, the colors seem to be broken into separate teams.

I have been trying to figure out the symbolism of the color brown, and Oldstones is the seat of House Mudd. At The Twins, Petyr Pimple Frey falls in the mud when Grey Wind snaps at this horse. Catelyn and the BwB kill Petyr Pimple but pretend to be holding him for ransom, luring Merrett Frey to Oldstones and then killing him as well. (There is a ton of mud, shit and brown symbolism associated with specific characters. If anyone wants to start a thread, I'd be interested.)

I suspect it is significant that Catelyn's body is pulled out onto a river bank, which would be muddy place.

The two legendary characters associated with Oldstones are Jenny of Oldstones and King Tristifer Mudd. As a kid, Catelyn played the role of Jenny while playing with Petyr Baelish. Tristifer is memorialized in his sarcophagus which bears his stone image and runes that are no longer legible. Catelyn has turned to Lady Stoneheart and can no longer speak, perhaps implying a parallel to King Tristifer.

Oldstones is located near the headwaters of the Blue Fork of the Trident. A recent insight for me is that the "red" and "green" teams are competing to team up with the "blue" team. Brienne is the bluest character, and she swears fealty to Catelyn. The Tully sigil is a field of blue and mud red, so maybe Catelyn already possesses blue and red - Riverrun is located on the Red Fork of the Trident. But Catelyn dies on, and her body is thrown into, the Green Fork.

But we know that Brienne feels conflicted about her oath, now that Catelyn is dead and after developing some respect for Jaime.

Anyway, I could chase endless relevant tangents and color associations. My point here is that Lady Stoneheart's religion might be attempting to reunite the colors as they had been united in the rainbows cast by the crystals before her death. Instead of rainbows, however, combined colors for her result in brown mud or conflicted and combating separate streams of color.

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4 hours ago, Seams said:

so maybe Catelyn already possesses blue and red

House Tully's sigil colors are blue and red.

Lysa takes the icy poisonous spider blue blood at the Eyrie. Cat on the other hand gets a dose of fire, but "muddled" by earth and water. Together LS and Brienne form the red-blue pair of house Tully, but connected to mud (earth + water). Remember that the Eyrie was built with blue veined marble of the Sapphire Island, while Whitewalls was built with the wite marble of the Vale. 

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5 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Remember that the Eyrie was built with blue veined marble of the Sapphire Island, while Whitewalls was built with the wite marble of the Vale. 

Very good point!

House Arryn already has blue in its sigil, but they get to possess some of the purest sapphire blue as well.

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