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US Politics: Butter Not Guns


DMC

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5 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

So I didn't follow the Democratic primaries particularly closely, basically because anyone not Trump would be fine, but I thought Harris did surprisingly badly? Is that not a concern?

She struck me as a bad campaigner when she set up Biden with her "that little girl" comment, even though their views on the issue were indistinguishable.

But, she checks a lot of the right boxes for some people, so it is what it is. I just hope the party doesn't expect us to back a coronation in 4 or 8 years.

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33 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Yawn, Harris is fine, and entirely expected. It's actually going to be interesting to see who takes her seat should they win. I'm sure Steyer is going to be going for it, but this could be a chance to get a stronger progressive in there.

It's only slightly more inspiring than Tim Caine I suppose. I went back and looked at her policies while she was running. That student loan forgiveness debacle still is hard to read.

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3 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Katie Porter is definitely a rising star, but there will be a lot of competition.  The Lt Governor (Kounalakis), the AG (Becerra), Eric Swalwell, Adam Schiff, Karen Bass, Tom Steyer, and hell maybe even Newsome himself will want the job. 

Porter would eat Swalwell's lunch. And I doubt Schiff would do it given his seniority. Bass would be interesting though.

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8 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

So I didn't follow the Democratic primaries particularly closely, basically because anyone not Trump would be fine, but I thought Harris did surprisingly badly? Is that not a concern?

It's a strange pick because she came in with a fair amount of buzz and name recognition, but she blundered numerous times. I mean, whatever, she's not running. She could still be the President in the next four years which is less encouraging. The best we can hope for is she remains in the background. If her prosecutorial history comes up in relation to BLM it could prove to be an anchor.

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32 minutes ago, TheMightyKC said:

Is Roman Catholic different than Catholic?  We have a Catholic Church in our town.  

This is good news!  We are big Kamala fans in this house and she has always done a Great Job for Our State.

All Christians are catholic with a small "c". Over 99% of Catholic churches would be Roman Catholic, though there are a few tiny groups called Old Catholics, Polish National Catholics, etc.

I must say though that I am nearly as speechless as Fragile Bird that there is anyone in the USA with enough education to be making posts on this board who knows so little about Roman Catholicism. Were you home schooled? Where is your town located, anyway? 

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3 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

So I didn't follow the Democratic primaries particularly closely, basically because anyone not Trump would be fine, but I thought Harris did surprisingly badly? Is that not a concern?

It is fair to say that her campaign did badly, but exactly why she did badly is very debateable.  Harris was a good fundraiser, a capable stump speaker, and skilled at using her Senate seat to attack Republicans.  So what went wrong?  Her campaign struggled because her organization seemed lackluster, and it burned through cash very quickly.   In addition, her strategy was questionable because she was always trying to find the middle ground between the establishment/moderate wing of Biden/Klobuchar and the progressive wing of Sanders/Warren, and thus it seemed like she was everybody's second or third choice, but nobody's favorite.  On top of that, her debate performances were uneven - at times very good but also sometimes flatfooted and confused. 

Of those downsides, she isn't responsible for building an organization, so that's not a big concern.  Being everyone's second/third choice is actually a good thing for a VP pick.  So really only the debate is a concern, and I'm pretty sure she'll lay the wood on Pence. 

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Speaking of California senators, I went down a tiny internet rabbit hole. Boxer's predecessor Cranston replaced a moderate Republican, Thomas Kuchel, who held the seat for 16 years (originally appointed to fill Nixon's seat when he became Vice President). In 1966, when Kuchel was the GOP's minority whip in the senate, here's how he described the conservative wing of the GOP in a statement after Reagan launched his campaign for California governor:

"A fanatical neo-fascist political cult of right-wingers in the GOP, driven by a strange mixture of corrosive hatred and sickening fear that is recklessly determined to control our party or destroy it."

He lost his primary to a conservative Republican in '68, and Cranston won the general election.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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9 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Of those downsides, she isn't responsible for building an organization, so that's not a big concern.  Being everyone's second/third choice is actually a good thing for a VP pick.  So really only the debate is a concern, and I'm pretty sure she'll lay the wood on Pence. 

This is actually a big selling point for her. The line, more or less, that I've heard a lot is that black women would vote for Biden if he didn't choose a black woman, but they wouldn't show out for him. You better believe that an alum of a major HBCU sorority is going to be a lot of help in several ways in this regard.

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1 hour ago, sologdin said:

a lot of protestant schismatics in the US think that roman catholicism is some sort of paganism.

Born Agains don't believe anyone else is a Christian -- nobody, whether Mormons or Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox, or Methodists, or Episcopalians or Presbyterians.  Nobody.

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32 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Of those downsides, she isn't responsible for building an organization, so that's not a big concern.

I think that had to do with the internal strife within her campaign due to her sister's influence - which yes, obviously will not be a problem in the coming months.  As for abilities in building an organization, she demonstrated that plenty of times in California politics, so I don't think that's a concern for the future really.  Just either have your sister run the show or keep her off the campaign.  Otherwise it's inevitably gonna be a problem.

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1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

I know that some people in California and elsewhere had sworn they won’t vote for Biden if he picks Harris. They did not like her as AG.

Oh, I'm sure she was too progressive an AG for certain Californians. But the people that bought into all this 'cop' bs didn't bring facts. 

Woman. Black. Progressive on crime [check out the programs she instituted as AG] a lot of different biases working against her there.  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Week said:

*Ahem*

 

I'd be a hell of a lot more excited about Karen Bass. I'm not sure what being a white lefty has to do with that.

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14 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I'd be a hell of a lot more excited about Karen Bass. I'm not sure what being a white lefty has to do with that.

I don't think that further explanation is 1) necessary or 2) constructive to the ongoing health of this thread and its ability to stay on topic

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2 minutes ago, Week said:

I don't think that further explanation is 1) necessary or 2) constructive to the ongoing health of this thread and its ability to stay on topic

I think it's germane to the discussion if the implication going forward is that dissatisfaction with Harris as a pick will automatically be correlated with race. 

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19 minutes ago, Week said:

*Ahem*

 

Some context...

There's growing conflict in the Democratic party between Black folks and White folks far on the left. Not sure it was rooted here but it's where I first noticed it. Certain Black groups weren't receptive of Sanders' positions and rather than trying to work it out, Sanders wrote them off and campaigned in CA rather than march in Selma with the rest of the candidates and basically admitted to not even trying anymore.

I'm just gonna say it. Certain White progressives push Black issues when it suits them, but if they don't agree with One True Way, they're written off rather than listened to. That Mystal called it out says it's more common than what I've been aware.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-moore-says-south-carolina-is-not-representative-of-america

Quote

Host Ari Melber, meanwhile, brought up a previous Moore interview from October 2019 in which he claimed Biden was “this year’s Hillary” and wouldn’t be able to excite the Democratic base because “70 percent of the people voting” will be women, people of color, and young people.

“How do you square that with South Carolina?” Melber wondered aloud, referencing Biden’s dominant victory.

“South Carolina is not representative of the United States,” the Fahrenheit 9/11 director said. “That’s just the facts. South Carolina will have absolutely no impact on the Nov. 3 election.”

Moore, after dismissing a state in which roughly 60 percent of the Democratic electorate is African-American, went on to say that a large percentage of voters in November will be people of color and “they’re going to decide the election.”

Moore’s comments immediately sparked anger online, particularly over the suggestion that the filmmaker was being dismissive of black South Carolina voters.

“Yes, Michael Moore said South Carolina (the first primary state with a significant black population) is not representative of the United States,” CNN commentator Keith Boykin noted on Twitter.

 

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