Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wintersshewolf

Arya Jon and Arya Still Endgame?

Recommended Posts

Since there seemed to be evidence for a Jon and Arya romance in the novels even before the infamous original outline came out with them as the main love story of the series, does anyone still think this is the plan going forward or have the characters not aged up fast enough to get there?

I can go either way on it since I do see the foreshadowing and the intensity of Jon's affection for Arya which seems to dictate the type of women he is attracted to. On the other hand, GRRM seems to dither on the topic here. It could be that he's upset that some aspects of his ending were released, including not just Jon/Arya but Jon's parentage. But he might have also developed the story away from everything in that outline that hasn't happened yet in some way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Jon and Arya will be together before the end of the books.  It may not play out according to the original outline but they will be together.  I believe they will become mates after they die.  As wolves.  Jon is the third lie that must be slain after all.  And Arya is already dead inside.  Their love for each other will survive death and carry on in whatever form they get for their second lives. 

Edited by Only 89 selfies today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wintersshewolf said:

Since there seemed to be evidence for a Jon and Arya romance in the novels even before the infamous original outline came out with them as the main love story of the series

Where? I for one never saw anything at all pointing to Jon hooking up w/ either of his sisters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

And Arya is already dead inside. 

Huh? Arya is still very much alive physically and inside.

Quote

Where? I for one never saw anything at all pointing to Jon hooking up w/ either of his sisters. 

Here's a post with a lot of textual evidence: 

 

But just a few things that give me pause about them: Arya catches and kisses the black cat who is called the black bastard and the true king of the castle, a couple times Jon compares Arya to Ygritte who he has a sexual relationship with, Arya compares Jon to Gendry who she has romantic undertones with, the blushing and touching in the Needle scene, the gifting of Needle as possible phallic undertones, Jon equating Arya with his heart, the memory of her laughter warming him on the way North, I want my bride back, Jon thinking of one of the last things he said to Arya as he died for her, etc. It's not necessarily overt, but the groundwork is definitely lain for the possibility.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Wintersshewolf said:

Huh? Arya is still very much alive physically and inside.

Here's a post with a lot of textual evidence: 

 

But just a few things that give me pause about them: Arya catches and kisses the black cat who is called the black bastard and the true king of the castle, a couple times Jon compares Arya to Ygritte who he has a sexual relationship with, Arya compares Jon to Gendry who she has romantic undertones with, the blushing and touching in the Needle scene, the gifting of Needle as possible phallic undertones, Jon equating Arya with his heart, the memory of her laughter warming him on the way North, I want my bride back, Jon thinking of one of the last things he said to Arya as he died for her, etc. It's not necessarily overt, but the groundwork is definitely lain for the possibility.

 

Yeah, I’ve read these arguments before, still don’t see anything there. At all. 
A summary of my thoughts on this can be found here:

3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

No.  Just No.  There is no evidence there is any sort of sexual or romantic attraction between Jon and Arya or Tyrion, for that matter.  No. 

I’m w/ you,CF! :cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, I’ve read these arguments before, still don’t see anything there. At all. 

Like I said, it's nothing overt. There's just enough there IMO to say that the groundwork was lain even if GRRM has developed the story away from that idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya's story is the great love story of the series, it is between her and Gendry. She will love Gendry but he is too lowborn, and duty will force her to sacrifice her love (and their child) for the good of her many subjects. The selfish wild child ultimately does the realm the greatest act of service and adheres to strict cultural norms. That's the arc. Jon will be her king and lord and will betroth princess Arya to who he decides for the purpose of sealing alliances and securing peace.

Jon has had his love in Ygritte. His story becomes one of the cold hearted singly duty minded. The one time he lets his guard down to passion, warmth, feeling, possibly love, will see him impregnate Dany, bringing forth a bastard, the one thing he never wanted to do more than anything, thus securing in his mind again that love, feeling, warmth, passion etc are poison. The birth of his daughter will see him rediscover warmth and love.

Arya's and Jon's future relationship is one of lord and lordling. Jon will become cold and no longer hold the warm regard he held for Arya, he will be expectant that she do her duty. Arya will be concerned that Jon isn't another Stoneheart, come back from the dead unfeeling, merciless and incapable of love, and thus no fit leader of men. His final act with his daughter will prove him to be otherwise, and the precise type of leader required to save the world at that time. And Arya's act of sacrifice will prove her to be the most dutiful subject Jon and the realm could have hoped for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems there is a tendency to equate brother/sisterly love with sexual attraction. No. Just NO, as Curled Finger observed. Lady Catelyn loved her children deeply, although maybe unwisely; did that mean she longed to bonk them? (I say no, although I realize some may disagree...) Jon and Arya were kindred spirits, and each thought of and missed the other.

When did Arya think of Gendry, once she left the Brotherhood without Banners? We don't have a window into Gendry's head, but the fact that he joined the Brotherhood and thus turned his back on Arya suggests he's not actually lovelorne. I reject chrisdaw's projected plotline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Wintersshewolf said:

Since there seemed to be evidence for a Jon and Arya romance in the novels even before the infamous original outline came out with them as the main love story of the series, does anyone still think this is the plan going forward or have the characters not aged up fast enough to get there?

Flimsy and circumstantial. Gross too. The Targs are enough. And i iclude that thread by ice turtle too.

7 hours ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

  And Arya is already dead inside. 

:bang: After all those discussions in the other thread about Arya's mental condition (mine BTW), haters still hating.

6 hours ago, Wintersshewolf said:
7 hours ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

And Arya is already dead inside. 

Huh? Arya is still very much alive physically and inside.

:cheers:

6 hours ago, Wintersshewolf said:

But just a few things that give me pause about them: Arya catches and kisses the black cat who is called the black bastard and the true king of the castle

Quote
6 hours ago, Wintersshewolf said:

Arya compares Jon to Gendry who she has romantic undertones with, the blushing and touching in the Needle scene, the gifting of Needle as possible phallic undertones, Jon equating Arya with his heart, the memory of her laughter warming him on the way North, I want my bride back, Jon thinking of one of the last things he said to Arya as he died for her, etc. It's not necessarily overt, but the groundwork is definitely lain for the possibility.

You confuse brotherly (and sisterly ) love for romantic undertones.

Edited by TheLastWolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, I’ve read these arguments before, still don’t see anything there. At all. 
A summary of my thoughts on this can be found here:

Here is mine

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

I had put a thread about this too. It is established that the cat is Balerion, Rhaenys's cat.

Oh I agree. The cat is definitely Balerion. I just found it interesting that he was called the black bastard, which Jon is also referred to as, and the true king of the castle, which is a possibility for Jon. It's not strong foreshadowing. Just an interesting parallel/commonality of phrasing.

Though with Jon dying and coming back badly (his resurrection must be worse than Cat's since it would be lame otherwise) I wonder if romance is in the cards for him at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Wintersshewolf said:

(his resurrection must be worse than Cat's since it would be lame otherwise)

Cat was 3 days dead IIRC. Jon will be ressurected almost immediately. Also Cat tore her own face out. Jon's wounds are not so bad. 

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Arya's story is the great love story of the series, it is between her and Gendry.

To this I agree

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

She will love Gendry but he is too lowborn, and duty will force her to sacrifice her love (and their child) for the good of her many subjects.

To this I do not.

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The selfish wild child ultimately does the realm the greatest act of service and adheres to strict cultural norms. That's the arc. Jon will be her king and lord and will betroth princess Arya to who he decides for the purpose of sealing alliances and securing peace.

NoNoNo..... IMO

Gendry is the last of the Baratheon bloodline apart from Edric, Mya and Bella, Russel Merryweather(suspected). I don't see Mya embracing nobility any time soon. Edric is too minor a character. He just blindly worships his father. Bella...., nothing to say about that.

Gendry will be revealed to be Robert's son.....

(as many are aware of his parentage and his deeds, both past , present and future will speak a lot for/of him)

Quote
  • WHO ALL KNOW.....
  • Stannis. Went with [Jonarryn]
  • Tobho mott, MUST know.
  • [Ned]
  • Brienne
  • Thoros, (he was at court for too long and too close with Robert to not know. Now with BwB, it is all but confirmed for him)
  • Arya suspects. During the Cersei-Gold cloak incident and Tansy's Peaches incident and a few more incidents which I forgot.

......by a golden haired woman who may be

Quote
  • Varys only paid double so Tobho Mott would take Gendry as an apprentice. With many probable theories about Varys being a Blackfyre (it is clear he's for the dragons, Targ or Blackfyre no matter), I think that the Blonde woman who is remembered by Gendry as his mother is a Targ/B.Fyre/dragonseed. Any ideas?

Or Cersei.

  Quote

Cersei described her son as having been a black-haired beauty who died of a fever. Gendry does not remember much of his mother, except that she was blonde. Cersei could have had a strong dislike for her son since she also had a strong dislike for his father, King Robert. She would have probably fancied Joffrey - or mainly a pure Lannister to sit on the Iron throne. She could have sent someone to kill the baby Gendry by poison, thus causing a fever that could have potentially killed him. I believe that whoever was ordered to kill Gendry could have retrieved some sort of chemical that could have caused Gendry's fever, yet not cause him death. This individual would have then taken the boy and perhaps given him to another to raise him. This would make Gendry legitimate.

Or someone else like...

  Quote

But if we're looking for crackpot, here be crackpot: Gendry's mom is Malora "the Mad Maid" Hightower. Robert had sex with Malora when he visited the Reach (he told Ned about it in Game, and it seems like he really enjoyed that trip). But then Malora knew she was pregnant, and having a "mad" or rebellious streak she went to KL alone to confront Robert about the baby. Cersei was having none of it, though, and told the guards not to let Malora in and threatened to kill her if she came back (Malora didn't use her real identity so as to not embarrass her family further). She worked for a bit as an alehouse worker, incognito, till she gave birth to Gendry. Not long after, a pissed off Leyton showed up looking for her. He told her he wasn't gonna let his House suffer any more shame (Lynesse becoming some sort of concubine was shameful enough). So he forced her to leave the baby with Tobho Mott, promising he'd pay regularly for his apprentice fee so the baby could have a nice life. Malora named him Gendry after Gerold Hightower - the White Bull -, and the name proved prophetic as he grew up to be stubborn and strong as a a bull, as signified by his bull helmet. Malora has spent the rest of her days at the Hightower, as punishment for her transgression. 

Only problem is hair color. Malora was auburn while Gendry remembers blonde. Maybe it was some hired wetnurse?

  On 7/8/2020 at 4:41 PM, Nevets said:

in which case he might deserve a leadership position.  But I don't see that happening.

Gendry has proved himself several times with Arya and the BwB. His survival with the much hunted BwB itself speaks volumes about his battle prowess. He has leadership qualities too. I cant bother to list them all again, view his wiki page or something. I have listed why he is more suited to rule and why the smallfolk will accept him etc etc in my OP and following posts.

The Bull helm is significant. (Where the hell is it anyway???)

It may be taken as his new sigil or something if he doesn't go with Baratheon (as Durrandon became Baratheon after Orys and his deeds)

Sorry. went OFFTOPIC..... only to put forth my views on GendryArya.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Wintersshewolf said:

The cat is definitely Balerion. I just found it interesting that he was called the black bastard, which Jon is also referred to as, and the true king of the castle, which is a possibility for Jon.

All cats are bastards, as none have had the marriage ceremony (to my knowledge...) And although the old black cat with one ear is "the true king of the castle", he wears no crown and nobody accepts his "authority." That doesn't sound too promising for Jon Snow (maybe Targaryen).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@zandru I can feel why you are confused. You agree with me on my views about JonArya and JonSansa but not GendryArya. Likewise for me with you

8 hours ago, zandru said:

When did Arya think of Gendry, once she left the Brotherhood without Banners? We don't have a window into Gendry's head, but the fact that he joined the Brotherhood and thus turned his back on Arya suggests he's not actually lovelorne. I reject chrisdaw's projected plotline.

He did not turn his back on her. Arya and Gendry were with the BwB when she was kidnapped by the Hound. While they couldn't find her, the Red Wedding, UnCat/Stoneheart took up prioroty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 I recently read the Jonsa thread aswell, And if I have a say....

My thoughts on Jonrya and Jonsa is that, they are crackpots......

Honestly Gendrya and even SanGen is more possible....(although Gendrya shippers won the battle, but lost the war if we go by the show)

I personally would like Arya/Gendry to happen more than Sansa/Gendry.....

But if there is foreshadowing or evidence (if you can call it) for Sansa/Jon then there is evidence for Sansa/Gendry too..

The most convincing one for me would be when Jaime said that Sansa would do well for herself if she could stomach being a Smith's wife....

Then we have Ned saying he would find the 'Noble , strong , brave , gentle' type for his girls......

Gendry fits the bill.....

And the "I have a son, you have a daughter" talk from Bobby B....

So I would take the non-incest one, over the incest one....

Edited by Orm
Sentence construction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...