Rothfuss XVII: a performance art finish?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

35 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

It's an old blog post about him loving his publisher. In short, the book was a mess and he knew he was going to miss deadline, but he kept telling her everything was fine.

Link here if you want to see the whole thing. 

 

Ahhhh...

[Ninefingers]

7 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Ahhhh...

And to be clear, I'm not saying he's a shitty person or anything. 

Just adding a little support to Gaston's point that we take what he says at face value at our peril, as he has a documented history of - most charitably put- being really poor at assessing the level of completeness of his work and/or the time needed to complete.

[Garlan the Gallant]

Needed a place to rant. YouTube kicked some of Rothfuss's YouTube videos into my algorithm and I viewed a few, foolishly. There have been a few videos he has posted over the last few weeks with things like "What happens next with Book Three" in the title but with no discussion of what is happening "next" with Book Three in the actual video. These videos have tens of thousands of views on them. He fully knows what he is doing. I would like to imagine that people don't view these videos to hear about the stuff he actually talks about in the video, they view it because of the title. 

Offending video seen here:

Also, the pretentiousness of how he has to be handled with kid gloves when a fan asks if there is going to be a fourth book here and he goes on about how nicely and considerately the question was phrased made me cringe in this video:

I know that I am biased in how I perceive this author, his publishing record, and his fan interactions...but I know nowhere else to air those grievances. 

[Ninefingers]

On 1/3/2021 at 7:00 PM, Garlan the Gallant said:

Needed a place to rant. YouTube kicked some of Rothfuss's YouTube videos into my algorithm and I viewed a few, foolishly. There have been a few videos he has posted over the last few weeks with things like "What happens next with Book Three" in the title but with no discussion of what is happening "next" with Book Three in the actual video. These videos have tens of thousands of views on them. He fully knows what he is doing. I would like to imagine that people don't view these videos to hear about the stuff he actually talks about in the video, they view it because of the title. 

Offending video seen here:

Also, the pretentiousness of how he has to be handled with kid gloves when a fan asks if there is going to be a fourth book here and he goes on about how nicely and considerately the question was phrased made me cringe in this video:

I know that I am biased in how I perceive this author, his publishing record, and his fan interactions...but I know nowhere else to air those grievances. 

I could be wrong, but I think the Eolian youtube channel is not officially affiliated with Rothfuss. My brain is approximately tapioca in my advanced years, but I have vague memories of people on Reddit complaining about their clickbaity titles before. 

As for the the 2nd video, yeah. It's not awful, but I do think it highlights (a)the difference between the level of consideration he expects to receive versus what he typically doles out, and (b) his condescending attitude. Really, that's the sort of answer a dick parent gives a 9 year old.

ALL THAT BEING SAID, his attitude and level of engagement with fans is *light years* ahead of where it was a couple of years ago. With any luck this change is an indication that he's doing better mental health wise, and here's to hoping he continues to improve and ends up in a happy spot.     

[Ninefingers]

The latest update from Rothfuss, sneakily swiped from a guy on Reddit. Not earth shattering news or anything, but it's the most recent info out there. 

Link to the reddit post is here.

Link to the video he transcribed is here.

Quote

Maude: I think [book two] just celebrated a decade, didn't it?

"Yeah. A decade and maybe a month, I think, technically."

Happy anniversary!

Pat makes a noncommittal sound, and everyone laughs. "I mean, it would be a cooler anniversary if I had goddamn another book out, you know?"

He then tells them they can ask.

Hector Navarro: Patrick, what's the status on the third book?

Pat (jokingly): "What a courteously phrased yet unexpected question.

"The truth is...and this is the truth, and anyone who follows me on Twitch or social media or whatever has heard me say it...no-one would be happier, except maybe my publisher, to have the third book out. And there's a bunch of reasons why it isn't.

"The big two, really, without getting into a lot of granular detail, [are] I'm fairly obsessive. You know, I wrote this entire...I started writing in my head what I always thought of as 'The Book'. I started it back in '94. And then I worked on it for seven years, until I got to, like, the end of the story, because until you get to the end of a story, you kinda can't meaningfully rework it. And I knew it was way too long to be a book, but still in my head it was the book, so in the year 2000-ish, I finished that draft, that first draft, effectively, and then for the next seven years, I'm like, 'Well, too big, what about there?'"

He does a chopping motion and indicates size with his hand. "'Now that's about a book's worth!'

"But that doesn't work, folks. You can't just be like, 'Here's a story," he says, and begins measuring out where the book is divided into parts, stopping at the first third. "And book. You gotta do a thing to the end, so it's like the end of a thing, and then do something to the whole of it, so it's, like, a book. And that took another seven years. And then I failed to sell it and all of that stuff.

"But the amount of rewriting that happened in The Name of the Wind was immense. Then I went into book two to work on it, so much had changed, then I had to...there you have no beginning and no end, 'cause it's the middle bit, so I had to rework that extensively. I had to deal with characters that I had added or removed, entire plot lines that I had changed. So then I changed that way more even than I had changed The Name of the Wind, and then I'm left with this, this end bit," he says, indicating the chunk that is The Doors of Stone. "And I had to sort of build a house out of a house that was not a very good house, and also that was like ten years ago.

"So there's just a lot. I only get to do this once. We all saw the third Matrix movie. And you know I could effectively travel backwards in time and ruin this thing that so many have enjoyed, so I'm obsessing about that."

Later he says, "I wish to hell I could have already given you book three a long time ago, and by 'you' I mean everyone out there. And I'm sorry."

He also talks a bit later about figuring out healthier ways of dealing with toxic aspects of the fandom, where people attacking the book not being there fast enough or giving the book 1-star reviews used to bother him, and now he's over it—he's burned his "surplus give a shit" in a "healthy way" where he's able to care about the book but ignore people who love the series but yell at him for not releasing it fast enough. He talks a bit about how much he wants to get it right, and how things in his personal life took a bad turn, and how he's come a long way but is still putting things (his life and book) back together.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

15 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

The latest update from Rothfuss, sneakily swiped from a guy on Reddit. Not earth shattering news or anything, but it's the most recent info out there. 

Link to the reddit post is here.

Link to the video he transcribed is here.

 

That’s actually a decent update as to why we are where we are.  It doesn’t tell us where he is but shit happens and writting isn’t easy.

[baxus]

Quote

He also talks a bit later about figuring out healthier ways of dealing with toxic aspects of the fandom, where people attacking the book not being there fast enough or giving the book 1-star reviews used to bother him, and now he's over it—he's burned his "surplus give a shit" in a "healthy way" where he's able to care about the book but ignore people who love the series but yell at him for not releasing it fast enough.

My memory may be playing tricks on me, but didn't Rothfuss promote this trilogy as "not another one you'll have to wait for years to be finished" and claimed it was finished and books will be released one year apart? Does he still avoid admitting he played a significant part in turning some (maybe even most) of his fandom is toxic?

[Ninefingers]

19 minutes ago, baxus said:

My memory may be playing tricks on me, but didn't Rothfuss promote this trilogy as "not another one you'll have to wait for years to be finished" and claimed it was finished and books will be released one year apart? Does he still avoid admitting he played a significant part in turning some (maybe even most) of his fandom is toxic?

He absolutely did promote it that way. 

And he has apologized a few times over the years for that(sometimes at great length). But these apologies are more the 'I was mistaken' than the 'I'm at fault' variety. 

[baxus]

... and those are the reasons why I think the guy's a giant douchebag and don't believe anything he says anymore.

[Proudfeet]

You guys missed out the no such thing as writer's block and passive aggressive swipes at GRRM. Also has a huge chunk of his blog history missing from the wayback machine archive. 

It might just be the transcription but I felt that he was entirely condescending through his explanation, including taking pot shots at another IP. Well, it's as expected I guess. 

[Kyll.Ing.]

So if I'm reading it correctly: He started out with a whole story in mind, with a beginning, middle, and end. But then the beginning and middle received so many changes the end he had in mind doesn't fit anymore ... and he doesn't seem to manage to come up with an end that fits the set-up. And that's where we still are, ten years later. There's also too much pride/perfectionism there to just hack out an ending as well. Maybe a belief that a good ending can be found, that if he takes a shortcut he will always regret it.

So, in other words, he has painted himself into a corner.

At this point, I'm almost wanting him to do a Douglas Adams and ignore the bit about "I only get to do this once". Just starting anew, doing things a bit differently, and seeing if he can get to the ending on the second attempt. In a somewhat comparable situation, the studio behind the Justice League movie also showed that you can get a second try. Make Kvothe ten years old again, send him back to Tarbean, see what happens. He wouldn't have to release it until he's finished.

[Reny of Storms End]

4 hours ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

At this point, I'm almost wanting him to do a Douglas Adams and ignore the bit about "I only get to do this once". Just starting anew, doing things a bit differently, and seeing if he can get to the ending on the second attempt. In a somewhat comparable situation, the studio behind the Justice League movie also showed that you can get a second try. Make Kvothe ten years old again, send him back to Tarbean, see what happens. He wouldn't have to release it until he's finished.

Could you expand on this? Did Douglas Adams do something similar to what you described as wishing Rothfuss would do?

[polishgenius]

39 minutes ago, Reny of Storms End said:

Could you expand on this? Did Douglas Adams do something similar to what you described as wishing Rothfuss would do?

I'd guess Kyll is referring to the fact that HHG was a radio show first and when Adams rewrote it as a book and then a TV show he changed things every time. As far as I know he never rewrote the books or any other version in itself.

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, Reny of Storms End said:

Could you expand on this? Did Douglas Adams do something similar to what you described as wishing Rothfuss would do?

I don't know what Kyll was referring to but I think Rothfuss probably sympathises with Adams' quote about the pace of his writing: "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.".

[Proudfeet]

2 hours ago, Mr Gordo said:

What IP was he taking potshots at? I can guess a few, but this guy...

?

I thought it was quite explicit. It was the Matrix and how it was ruined by the third movie. I think it was completely unnecessary to demean someone else to make a point regardless of whether it is accurate or deserved or not. If he made a blog post on how he rewatched the franchise and said that it sucked, then sure. Saying I don't want to be like that thing that sucked by the way is just crass.

But yeah, this guy. Sigh. 

[Proudfeet]

Well, there's that gap in the wayback machine where he has, but the archive is gone now and I can't prove it.

[Kyll.Ing.]

16 hours ago, Reny of Storms End said:

Could you expand on this? Did Douglas Adams do something similar to what you described as wishing Rothfuss would do?

 

15 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I'd guess Kyll is referring to the fact that HHG was a radio show first and when Adams rewrote it as a book and then a TV show he changed things every time. As far as I know he never rewrote the books or any other version in itself.

Yeah, this. There's also the movie, which I believe Adams got to see the drafts of before he passed away. Fair enough that he never rewrote any of the versions, but at least he seemed to hold the belief that the story could be changed when it was told multiple times. 

I know it's not necessarily satisfying, but I'm actually for the idea of a writer going "no, wait..." and going back to complete the story starting from an earlier stage (or even from the very beginning) rather than staying stuck trying to build a continuation from a bad starting point. Then again, it'd be doubly frustrating if they got stuck again, of course.

[Reny of Storms End]

Thanks for the responses and answers everyone!

[jurble]

I think Rothfuss should skip book 3 at this point.  Just open book 4, everyone has eyepatches and cyborg arms, Kvothe uses a katana and there's just oblique references to mysterious past events 

[Argonath Diver]

Sex-bots he could electrocute with the power of his love-making, a la Barbarella, but for dudes!