(f)dany

[Frey family reunion]

17 hours ago, GoldenGail3 said:

What’s with these horrible theories people have?

George doesn’t think it’s so horrible.

Quote

Q: Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in  Braavos but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’ cold, foggy, climate.  Is this discrepancy significant?  Does it point to a future revelation about Dany’s past?  Thank you so much.

A:  Very perceptive of you.

Yes it does point to ... well, that would be telling.

 

[CamiloRP]

@corbon

I was half an hour into replying to you when I realized I was only to points in, we keep repeating the same things over and over and we probably won't change anyone's mind here. I kinda imagine you are feeling the same way and you also have better things to do that keep having a circular argument with a stranger on the internet.

Once again, I'm not saying THWTRD definitely isn't in Braavos, it might be, but I think George at least wanted us to think maybe it wasn't, and that's why Dany's memories don't have any Braavosi signifier, that's why THWTRD is described diffentently to the average Braavosi house, and that's why at least five times the text says there are no lemon trees in Braavos, two times calling the notion "foolish". What would be the purpose of repeating it otherwise? Worldbuilding? Maybe, except no single biome fact is repeated that many times, there must be a reason. Maybe that reason is just casting doubt for shits and giggles, I wouldn't put it past him, but it seems pretty disingenuous to me to claim that there's absolutely no textual support for it, specially given that George said the lemon tree means something, and also given that many fans came into a similar version of the theory on their own.

Nice talking to you

[Frey family reunion]

10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

That essay uses as evidence the stuff that’s already been discussed here, so at this point it’s pretty much like beating a very dead horse. 
Here’s something interesting about the location of the house w/ the red door. Now, I don’t think Martin would swap Tyrosh for Braavos only to have it not be Braavos. Not that this will convince anyone, but I thought I’d just throw it out there. 

 

If our only clues lay in the first book, I would tend to agree.  But the fact that George is doubling down on lemon trees not being in Braavos as late as the next book, I don’t think this really solves the puzzle.

[Frey family reunion]

3 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

@corbon

I was half an hour into replying to you when I realized I was only to points in, we keep repeating the same things over and over and we probably won't change anyone's mind here. I kinda imagine you are feeling the same way and you also have better things to do that keep having a circular argument with a stranger on the internet.

Once again, I'm not saying THWTRD definitely isn't in Braavos, it might be, but I think George at least wanted us to think maybe it wasn't, and that's why Dany's memories don't have any Braavosi signifier, that's why THWTRD is described diffentently to the average Braavosi house, and that's why at least five times the text says there are no lemon trees in Braavos, two times calling the notion "foolish". What would be the purpose of repeating it otherwise? Worldbuilding? Maybe, except no single biome fact is repeated that many times, there must be a reason. Maybe that reason is just casting doubt for shits and giggles, I wouldn't put it past him, but it seems pretty disingenuous to me to claim that there's absolutely no textual support for it, specially given that George said the lemon tree means something, and also given that many fans came into a similar version of the theory on their own.

Nice talking to you

I agree with you, I don’t really understand the fairly stringent gas lighting of this theory to be honest.  

[Lord Lannister]

6 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

George doesn’t think it’s so horrible.

 

Not really. That's one of those non-answers George gives where you think he said something but really didn't. He does that all the time. 

[Frey family reunion]

2 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Not really. That's one of those non-answers George gives where you think he said something but really didn't. He does that all the time. 

He does do that all the time, but this isn’t really an example of that.  He usually accomplishes it by deftly changing the subject.  He doesn’t change the subject here, he just says he’s not going to reveal anything.  

But it doesn’t change the fact that George found the observation to be perceptive.  

[Lord Lannister]

9 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

He does do that all the time, but this isn’t really an example of that.  He usually accomplishes it by deftly changing the subject.  He doesn’t change the subject here, he just says he’s not going to reveal anything.  

But it doesn’t change the fact that George found the observation to be perceptive.  

I mean, that seems something of a confirmation bias. He said he wasn't going to reveal anything, and didn't reveal anything. Calling the question perceptive doesn't answer it or assign meaning to the answer. Just a way of giving a non-answer. 

[kissdbyfire]

21 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

specially given that George said the lemon tree means something,

But he didn’t say that. That may be your interpretation of what he said, and fair enough. Still. I agree though, that this is going round and round in circles at this point. 

19 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

If our only clues lay in the first book, I would tend to agree.  But the fact that George is doubling down on lemon trees not being in Braavos as late as the next book, I don’t think this really solves the puzzle.

I don’t think there is a puzzle here. There are many details we don’t know about Dany’s childhood, but her parentage and the location of the house w/ the red door aren’t among those. To me it’s more of the same stuff, where some readers must find a hidden meaning/truth in every turn of phrase. 

[Frey family reunion]

7 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I mean, that seems something of a confirmation bias. He said he wasn't going to reveal anything, and didn't reveal anything. Calling the question perceptive doesn't answer it or assign meaning to the answer. Just a way of giving a non-answer. 

Umm, no that’s not what a confirmation bias is.  Instead, it is George confirming that the observation of the fact that Dany’s memories of a lemon tree seem to contradict what would have been grown in Braavos’ wet climate and whether that could lead to a future revelation about Dany’s past is a perceptive observation.

According to the posters in this thread, they believe that to be a silly, irrelevant observation.

I’m going to go with George on this one.

[Lord Lannister]

16 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Umm, no that’s not what a confirmation bias is.  Instead, it is George confirming that the observation of the fact that Dany’s memories of a lemon tree seem to contradict what would have been grown in Braavos’ wet climate and whether that could lead to a future revelation about Dany’s past is a perceptive observation.

According to the posters in this thread, they believe that to be a silly, irrelevant observation.

I’m going to go with George on this one.

But he didn't say that. He phrased his response in an open ended fashion that feeds into what you want to believe without actually responding to the question in any meaningful fashion. You see this all the time in people who give interviews be it actors, politicians and yes authors. 

You're entitled to your opinion on the issue, but George didn't confirm or deny it with that response.

[Frey family reunion]

1 minute ago, Lord Lannister said:

But he didn't say that. He phrased his response in an open ended fashion that feeds into what you want to believe without actually responding to the question in any meaningful fashion. You see this all the time in people who give interviews be it actors, politicians and yes authors. 

You're entitled to your opinion on the issue, but George didn't confirm or deny it with that response.

Sigh, I'm not saying he confirmed or denied anything.  Even though, it seems fairly clear that in answer to her question about whether that discrepency could lead to a future revelation about Dany's past, he said "yes".  

But regardles, he unequivocally said the observation of the discrepency was perceptive.  

[LynnS]

I think there is one other clue.  It's not a visual memory, but instead a scent memory: the smell of home.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI

But the Western Market smelled of home.

As Irri and Jhiqui helped her from her litter, she sniffed, and recognized the sharp odors of garlic and pepper, scents that reminded Dany of days long gone in the alleys of Tyrosh and Myr and brought a fond smile to her face. Under that she smelled the heady sweet perfumes of Lys. She saw slaves carrying bolts of intricate Myrish lace and fine wools in a dozen rich colors. Caravan guards wandered among the aisles in copper helmets and knee-length tunics of quilted yellow cotton, empty scabbards swinging from their woven leather belts. Behind one stall an armorer displayed steel breastplates worked with gold and silver in ornate patterns, and helms hammered in the shapes of fanciful beasts. Next to him was a pretty young woman selling Lannisport goldwork, rings and brooches and torcs and exquisitely wrought medallions suitable for belting. A huge eunuch guarded her stall, mute and hairless, dressed in sweat-stained velvets and scowling at anyone who came close. Across the aisle, a fat cloth trader from Yi Ti was haggling with a Pentoshi over the price of some green dye, the monkey tail on his hat swaying back and forth as he shook his head.

 

It seems to me that Lys might be a good candidate for the house with the red door.  It's been suggested before that Dany is a substitute from Lys and they specialize in breeding slaves that look like Targaryens.  I'd say this is a good place to hide Dany as a child, because she wouldn't stand out in the population,,  Lys is fertile with palm and fruit trees and they produce heady, sweet perfumes.  

Quote

To this day, Lys remains "a feast for the senses, a balm for the soul." Its pillow houses are famed through all the world, and sunsets here are said to be more beautiful than anywhere else on earth.[1]

—writings of Yandel

So pillow houses have red doors?

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lys

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Sigh, I'm not saying he confirmed or denied anything.  Even though, it seems fairly clear that in answer to her question about whether that discrepency could lead to a future revelation about Dany's past, he said "yes".  

But regardles, he unequivocally said the observation of the discrepency was perceptive.  

Could? He could've finished that sentence in any number of ways. You seem to be placing heavy emphasis on being with George on this from that snippet. I still think taking any meaning from that comment is just a case of seeing what you want to see from it, since he didn't really say anything.

Yes, he said the comment was perceptive. What exactly does that mean? It seems just the same thing as saying "interesting" as a non answer when someone says something. Possibly just to give him a moment to think about what he wants to say. Which again, was nothing. 

[Frey family reunion]

4 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Yes, he said the comment was perceptive. What exactly does that mean? It seems just the same thing as saying "interesting" as a non answer when someone says something. Possibly just to give him a moment to think about what he wants to say. Which again, was nothing. 

Considering that he was responding to an email, he could have taken all of the time he wanted to craft whatever response he wanted.  Or he could have not replied to the email.  

But I’m glad that you agree with me that he said the comment was perceptive.  I disagree with you that describing the comment as perceptive is the same as describing the comment as interesting.  A comment can be interesting without being perceptive.  For example, I find many of the posts on this thread interesting.

ETA Perceptive:  having the ability to perceive or understand; keen in discernment.    Perceptive people are insightful, intelligent, and able to see what others cannot.

[Rose of Red Lake]

I think it just might be a mismemory and a conflation. Like, maybe the door to Darry's house isnt actually red. Instead she's taking Visery's stories of the Red Keep and imagining that this is home and where she was happy and will be happy. There is something building with her conflating the Iron Throne/Red Keep with home because she's acting off of Visery's memories, not her own.

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

On 8/13/2020 at 1:59 AM, SeanF said:

R + R = D is much more fun, though.

It really is. I dont know why I didnt think of Targcest on steroids.

[Lord Lannister]

13 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I think it just might be a mismemory and a conflation. Like, maybe the door to Darry's house isnt actually red. Instead she's taking Visery's stories of the Red Keep and imagining that this is home and where she was happy and will be happy. There is something building with her conflating the Iron Throne/Red Keep with home because she's acting off of Visery's memories, not her own.

 

Martin has used the term unreliable narrator to describe such contradictions in the past.

[GoldenGail3]

22 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

As @kissdbyfirementioned, a lot of people want to be "the one" who discover something game changing. Couple that with nearly a decade since the last published book.... 

Grrm should come out with a new book so people will not come out with such stupid theories such as this one for example. Another stupid theory is Roose Bolton being the son of Another (I think he’s just a dude with diabetes which is why he likes leeching himself of bad blood) 

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, GoldenGail3 said:

Grrm should come out with a new book so people will not come out with such stupid theories such as this one for example. Another stupid theory is Roose Bolton being the son of Another (I think he’s just a dude with diabetes which is why he likes leeching himself of bad blood) 

Lol, yeah. The fan base needs some new material to sink it's teeth into. The devil finds work for idle hands and lots of tin foil. Though some fan theories are better than others and it can be fun. Lemongate is far from the worst one(Roose Bolt On the vampire for example) and there's an argument to be made, even if I don't really buy into it with what's presented. I'm a fan of A+J=T for example, even if I'm not sure if it's going to be plot significant. 

[GoldenGail3]

13 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Lol, yeah. The fan base needs some new material to sink it's teeth into. The devil finds work for idle hands and lots of tin foil. Though some fan theories are better than others and it can be fun. Lemongate is far from the worst one(Roose Bolt On the vampire for example) and there's an argument to be made, even if I don't really buy into it with what's presented. I'm a fan of A+J=T for example, even if I'm not sure if it's going to be plot significant. 

Roose has some bad fan theories going for him, don’t he? I think in the books he’s going to kill Ramsey, and that’s the only theory I have about that man.