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Helman Corbray

Will someone follow Robb's will?

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8 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

That is pure speculation, but even if that was true it would make Lady Anya and her children the heirs, not Harry.

its speculation, but not out of thin air as Catelyn list them off in the books in the order of Waynwood, Corbray and Templton.

8 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is because of the timeline that this does not make sense. Lady Anya has a grandson who is a knight. She is pretty old. We also know that the next Dunc and Egg book takes place in Winterfell (around the year 213/214) and that the book deals with the recent death of Lord Beron Stark and his underage children. His heir Donnor, and younger brother Willam (Jocelyn's father) were not old enough to rule.

GRRM never says they are too young to rule, thats fan assumption.  What he says is the women struggle for power.

Even in your own scenario though, At the latest , Willam would have been 12 when Jocelyn was born since he died in 226.

so obviously it is possible for Anya to be her great grandmother if she also had a child at such a young age and we beleive the same of the entire line, however its more likely that Donner and Willam were older than you thought, because I doubt Willam produced 3 kids at 12 (technically 11)

 

8 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

So even in this unlikely scenario of Robb naing the oldest male of Jocelyn's branch it would still not be Harry. He'd still be behind the sons, daughters and grandchildren (maybe even great-grandchildren) of Lady Anya.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

its speculation, but not out of thin air as Catelyn list them off in the books in the order of Waynwood, Corbray and Templton.

Yes, they married lordlings from those houses.

"They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest . . . it might have been a Templeton, but . . ."

Lordling does not mean Lord, it just means young noble. For example when Cat goes to meet Renly she is given an escort that includes 5 lordlings

"Robb had sent twenty of his best to see her safely to Renly. He had sent five lordlings as well, whose names and high birth would add weight and honor to her mission"

And we know four of those, Wyman's younger son Wendal, Perwyn Frey, Lucas BlacKwood (another second son) and Robin Flint, at least three of them were behind their brothers in the succession line.

So Jocelyn's daughter marrying a Waynwood does not actually tell us who the next Stark heir is.

17 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

GRRM never says they are too young to rule, thats fan assumption.  What he says is the women struggle for power.

Why would the women struggle for power if Beron's sons were old enough to rule?

What GRRM actually says is that Beron was 30 something https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1409/

So with the women struggling for power, no male Lord in charge and Beron being in his 30's, I think it stands to reason that his sons were not yet old enough to rule.

17 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Even in your own scenario though, At the latest , Willam would have been 12 when Jocelyn was born since he died in 226.

so obviously it is possible for Anya to be her great grandmother if she also had a child at such a young age and we beleive the same of the entire line,

It is only possible if 5 generations of Waynwoods married and conceived healthy children at the age of 13/14

It is possible, it is just not likely. It makes no sense whatsoever though that you are telling people that Robb 'likely' named Harry as his heir in his will.

 

17 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

however its more likely that Donner and Willam were older than you thought, because I doubt Willam produced 3 kids at 12 (technically 11)

I don't understand this point?

Willam dies in 226. He's got more than enough time to producer 3 children is he is 13, or younger, in 213/4. Ned, Tarly and many other Lords produced all their children in a similar time frame.

17 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Maybe, maybe not.

What?

Why would Robb, having never met his cousins, decide to make Harry his heir over the men ahead of him in the line of succession?

That makes little sense, nor does the idea that Jocelyn's daughter was Lady Waynwood's mother. It would make more sense. time wise at least, that Jocelyn's daughter married Morton Waynwood.

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22 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

Why would the women struggle for power if Beron's sons were old enough to rule?

Why is there even a struggle for power when Beron has a clear male heir ?????

22 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

I don't understand this point?

Willam dies in 226. He's got more than enough time to producer 3 children is he is 13, or younger, in 213/4. Ned, Tarly and many other Lords produced all their children in a similar time frame.

Even if you assume the latest possible date for Jocelyn's birth, you can still fit the timeline. It seems we both agree that she was born earlier, which would give the timeline even more wiggle room. 

22 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

What?

Why would Robb, having never met his cousins, decide to make Harry his heir over the men ahead of him in the line of succession?

to bring the Vale into the fold. 

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10 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Why is there even a struggle for power when Beron has a clear male heir ?????

From what we know, because his male heirs are underage, thus others, in this case women, would be rule in his stead.

There was 8 Lords after Cregan Stark in the space of around 30 years.

There would be multiple widows of Lord Starks at Winterfell; Larra Royce (Beron's widow), Myriame Manderly (Rodwell's widow), Alys Karstark (Brandon's widow) plus there would be Serena Stark (rightful heir of Winterfell after her father Rickon's death).

 

10 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Even if you assume the latest possible date for Jocelyn's birth, you can still fit the timeline.

Just about. But it seems unrealistic that the Jocelyn/Waynwoods have two generations more than the Freys and three more than the Starks and Lannisters in a similar timeframe.

 

10 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

 

It seems we both agree that she was born earlier, which would give the timeline even more wiggle room. 

I actually have no idea when she was born. My guess would be between 220-227.

However I very much doubt that she would have been married off to a, relatively, insignificant noble outside of the North before Edwyle himself had an heir.

10 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

to bring the Vale into the fold. 

Then why would he do it secretly in a will?

Why not send a letter to his Vale nominated heir and ask him for help?

It seems pointless to wait till after he is dead to use that to gain an alliance.

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On 9/5/2020 at 3:57 AM, Bernie Mac said:

From what we know, because his male heirs are underage, thus others, in this case women, would be rule in his stead.

There was 8 Lords after Cregan Stark in the space of around 30 years.

There would be multiple widows of Lord Starks at Winterfell; Larra Royce (Beron's widow), Myriame Manderly (Rodwell's widow), Alys Karstark (Brandon's widow) plus there would be Serena Stark (rightful heir of Winterfell after her father Rickon's death).

We dont know his male heirs are underage, thats just the fan theory. 

In either case, the other 4 ish male claimants would likely all be in the 20s or 30's if they are alive. 

On 9/5/2020 at 3:57 AM, Bernie Mac said:

 

Just about. But it seems unrealistic that the Jocelyn/Waynwoods have two generations more than the Freys and three more than the Starks and Lannisters in a similar timeframe.

 

I actually have no idea when she was born. My guess would be between 220-227.

However I very much doubt that she would have been married off to a, relatively, insignificant noble outside of the North before Edwyle himself had an heir.

While it is entirely possible for Cat to be wrong, I really doubt she is on this particular issue.  so we are debating arbitrary dates. 

On 9/5/2020 at 3:57 AM, Bernie Mac said:

Then why would he do it secretly in a will?

Why not send a letter to his Vale nominated heir and ask him for help?

It seems pointless to wait till after he is dead to use that to gain an alliance.

Is the will secret ?????


 

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1 hour ago, dsjj251 said:

We dont know his male heirs are underage, thats just the fan theory. 

GRRM said Beron died mortally wounded in his 30's. That does not suggest adult sons, plus the synopsis GRRM gave for the She Wolves does not suggest an adult heir.

1 hour ago, dsjj251 said:

 



In either case, the other 4 ish male claimants would likely all be in the 20s or 30's if they are alive. 

How do you know that?

The Starks, between the recent war with Skagos and the onging war with the Ironborn, were said of have accumulated many casualties.

We have no idea how old these other heirs were.

1 hour ago, dsjj251 said:

While it is entirely possible for Cat to be wrong, I really doubt she is on this particular issue.  so we are debating arbitrary dates. 

Who ever said Cat was wrong? Can you quote were you think I claimed she was wrong?

1 hour ago, dsjj251 said:

Is the will secret ?????

 

Do you know what the will says?

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2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Do you know what the will says?

The reader doesn’t know, but Robb revealed the will to his war council.

Quote

“One more matter. Lord Balon has left chaos in his wake, we hope. I would not do the same. Yet I have no son as yet, my brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I’ve thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision.”

Now Robb may not want it revealed to his enemies, to avoid putting his heir in danger, but he clearly wants a number of people to know what his succession is in case he is killed.

Edited by Frey family reunion

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5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

GRRM said Beron died mortally wounded in his 30's. That does not suggest adult sons, plus the synopsis GRRM gave for the She Wolves does not suggest an adult heir.

The Wiki says he could have been up to 42. So im not debating age his possible age, but more so that he could have had a son when he was 12 - 26 and that child could be in adulthood. 

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

How do you know that?

The Starks, between the recent war with Skagos and the onging war with the Ironborn, were said of have accumulated many casualties.

We have no idea how old these other heirs were.

Cregan Stark was born in 108. 

Serena, his granddaughter, had twin sons.  Those boys, if alive, are at least in their 30's (birth calculations on wiki)

They themselves may have sons. 

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Who ever said Cat was wrong? Can you quote were you think I claimed she was wrong?

 

Technically you are saying im wrong, since Catelyn never specifically says who these heirs would be only these houses,  and  its possible there are more branches of  House Waynwood. 

 

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Do you know what the will says?

As the other poster said, The will is public knowledge to his war council. 

 

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6 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Technically you are saying im wrong, since Catelyn never specifically says who these heirs would be only these houses,  and  its possible there are more branches of  House Waynwood. 

 

As the other poster said, The will is public knowledge to his war council. 

 

The will was known those members of the war council that were required to sign it as his Lords (including Lady Mormont as a ruler in her own right). It may not have been known to Catalyn, who is not the head of any House and would not be  required to witness - and Robb was not inviting any discussion; he was committing his lords to a decision he had already made. 

There is no indication the will was made public knowledge to the camp, and good reason the lords would not discuss it casually. Morale was already low in the army and would not have been improved by the camp dwelling on the possibly of their king dying in the next battle.

As for Robb naming a Vale cousin his backup heir to garner support from the Vale, his maternal aunt was already ruling the region, as regent for his first cousin. That wasn't sufficient for the North to get aid, so the prospects that a more distant relative who had not yet inherited anything would give better aid were not good. I'll also mention that Cat only half remembered which lordlings were related to the Starks - Robb may have known even less and was on the march with his army so with limited opportunity to research the identities of distant cousins.

Edited by Buried Treasure

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On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 PM, dsjj251 said:

The Wiki says he could have been up to 42. So im not debating age his possible age, but more so that he could have had a son when he was 12 - 26 and that child could be in adulthood. 

The author told an audience that he died in his 30's.

  • "with four of them widows of a bunch of fairly recent former Lord Starks, and the current Lady Stark, whose 30-something husband is fading fast from a wound taken from fighting the Ironborn."

Also if you are going by the wiki then that clearly states 'There may be a House Stark succession crisis, a struggle for power among the ladies on behalf of their children'

Now this is by no means conclusive, but it does heavily suggest that Willam, and his older brother Donnor, were not adults in the year 213/214 when this tale is likely to be told.

On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 PM, dsjj251 said:

Cregan Stark was born in 108.

Serena, his granddaughter, had twin sons.  Those boys, if alive, are at least in their 30's (birth calculations on wiki)

I don't think you read what I wrote. I wrote that it possible that she is fighting on behalf of herself as well as her grandchildren.

We know that between Skagos and the Ironborn a lot of male Starks lost their lives in this timeframe.

 

On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 PM, dsjj251 said:

 

Technically you are saying im wrong, since Catelyn never specifically says who these heirs would be only these houses,  and  its possible there are more branches of  House Waynwood. 

Correct. I never claimed that Cat was wrong.

Cat claims that the daugther of Jocelyn married a Waynwood. I am a hundred percent behind that.

What Cat does not say is that Jocelyn's daughter married Anya Waynwood's father. For some reason you came to the conclusion that he was the only possible Waynwood she could have married. Not one of his brothers, cousins, nephews, grandsons. That it could only be him.

 

On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 PM, dsjj251 said:

 

As the other poster said, The will is public knowledge to his war council.
 

Glover, Westerling (deceased), Mormont, Greatjon and possibly Mallister.

Mormont has since returned to Bear Island. She and her House have not declared for anyone yet.

Galbert is with Manderly, they are working on restoring Rickon.

The Greatjon is captured, but given his speech about southerners knowing nothing of what it means to be a Northman, it seems hugely unlikely that he is going to want Harry Hardyng as his King.

Even, in the unlikely scenario that Robb named Harry, it does not seem anything will come of it.

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https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Jon_Snow

Quote

I have a question, since Robb actually legitimized Jon and named him his heir for Winterfell and the North before the Red Wedding (granted no one knows about this and is still alive or free, the Greatjon knows as does Edmure, but Idont see them getting out of the Twins any time soon and Catelyn would probably die before telling anyone) does this make Jon's rejection of Stannis' offer moot?

Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true... but you are forgetting the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed... Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Jason Mallister... they are all alive and free.

As to what is and is not moot... the key point is, only a =king= can legitimize a bastard......

Those who observe Robb's decision are Galbart Glover (sent into the Neck), Jason Mallister (Frey captivity at Seagard), Maege Mormont (sent into the Neck), Catelyn Stark (now Lady Stoneheart), Edmure Tully (Lannister captivity), and Jon Umber (Frey captivity at the Twins).

Raynald Westerling (presumed dead after the Red Wedding) appears to remain outside after escorting Catelyn to Robb's tent. Galbart's brother Robett joins Wyman Manderly in White Harbor after being released from Duskendale in a prisoner exchange for Martyn Lannister.

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3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The author told an audience that he died in his 30's.

  • "with four of them widows of a bunch of fairly recent former Lord Starks, and the current Lady Stark, whose 30-something husband is fading fast from a wound taken from fighting the Ironborn."

Also if you are going by the wiki then that clearly states 'There may be a House Stark succession crisis, a struggle for power among the ladies on behalf of their children'

Now this is by no means conclusive, but it does heavily suggest that Willam, and his older brother Donnor, were not adults in the year 213/214 when this tale is likely to be told.

The actual quote isnt from GRRM, its from some person trying to remember it, and it actually says 

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Boskone_Boston_MA_February_17_193/

You are assuming they got the second part of the quote right when they couldnt get the first part right. 

Further more, 30 something only removes 3 years from the equation. 

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

I don't think you read what I wrote. I wrote that it possible that she is fighting on behalf of herself as well as her grandchildren.

We know that between Skagos and the Ironborn a lot of male Starks lost their lives in this timeframe.

I read what you wrote, my point is that based on the age of Cregan, those boys are adults, and even Beron is older than exactly 30. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

Correct. I never claimed that Cat was wrong.

Cat claims that the daugther of Jocelyn married a Waynwood. I am a hundred percent behind that.

What Cat does not say is that Jocelyn's daughter married Anya Waynwood's father. For some reason you came to the conclusion that he was the only possible Waynwood she could have married. Not one of his brothers, cousins, nephews, grandsons. That it could only be him.

I never said that. Its just the working theory.  I simply operated off the basis of that theory.  Lets just agree we are all throwing up theories here, no need to go back and forth on that, LOL

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Glover, Westerling (deceased), Mormont, Greatjon and possibly Mallister.

Mormont has since returned to Bear Island. She and her House have not declared for anyone yet.

Galbert is with Manderly, they are working on restoring Rickon.

The Greatjon is captured, but given his speech about southerners knowing nothing of what it means to be a Northman, it seems hugely unlikely that he is going to want Harry Hardyng as his King.

Even, in the unlikely scenario that Robb named Harry, it does not seem anything will come of it.

Book +show theory.  How else is Sansa claiming Winterfell with the knights of the Vale, LOL

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5 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

The actual quote isnt from GRRM, its from some person trying to remember it, and it actually says 

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Boskone_Boston_MA_February_17_193/

You are assuming they got the second part of the quote right when they couldnt get the first part right. 

Further more, 30 something only removes 3 years from the equation. 

Again, seems the information we have clearly suggests that the Lord died young and there was no adult heir.

5 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

I read what you wrote, my point is that based on the age of Cregan, those boys are adults, and even Beron is older than exactly 30. 

I never said anything about her sons, but her grandsons.

5 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

 

 

I never said that. Its just the working theory.  I simply operated off the basis of that theory.  Lets just agree we are all throwing up theories here, no need to go back and forth on that, LOL

What theories am I throwing up?

You claimed thar Harry the likely 'heir' according to Robb's will.

There are multiple reasons why that makes little sense. No idea why you are still defending your use of 'likely' more than a week later.

5 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Book +show theory.  How else is Sansa claiming Winterfell with the knights of the Vale, LOL

She's a Stark the son and sister of the last two Lords. She does not need Harry to claim Winterfell, quite the opposite, he'd likely need her to claim it.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Again, seems the information we have clearly suggests that the Lord died young and there was no adult heir.

yes, but your argument seems to hinge on him being exactly 30, and even then he would still have been able to produce a son that was now over 16. 

He has something like 7 kids, You would really have to assume those kids were born back to back  at the earliest(and unlikely date) 

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

I never said anything about her sons, but her grandsons.

Yes. im talking about her grandsons. 

Cregan was born in 108, so 106 years before  the current story. 

If we assume the median age of the birth calculations, Serena Stark's grandsons would likely be 30 or near it.  Her own sons in their late 40's early 50's.

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

What theories am I throwing up?

Latest possible birth date theories, secondary unmentioned branches of houses theories, LOL 

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

You claimed thar Harry the likely 'heir' according to Robb's will.

There are multiple reasons why that makes little sense. No idea why you are still defending your use of 'likely' more than a week later.

Naw, now we are just debating for fun. 

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

She's a Stark the son and sister of the last two Lords. She does not need Harry to claim Winterfell, quite the opposite, he'd likely need her to claim it.

 

 

She needs the support of his House and the allies of his House. 

 



 

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On 9/12/2020 at 9:07 AM, dsjj251 said:

yes, but your argument seems to hinge on him being exactly 30,

Where do you get that from? I quoted a person who said he was in his 30's. Which lines up with the description of the She Wolves of Winterfell. There seems to be a lack of an adult Lord in the description of those books.

My argument does not at all hinge on that. If the Waynwoods were Stark cousins then Cat, who has interacted with Waywnoods when she was in the Vale, would have possibly mentioned that.

Quote

 

and even then he would still have been able to produce a son that was now over 16. 

Well yes. Any child born almost a century ago would be well over 16 in the year 300.

Quote

He has something like 7 kids, You would really have to assume those kids were born back to back  at the earliest(and unlikely date) 

Seems to be the pattern in GRRM's world. 7 children in a decade is perfectly reasonable. There are 8 years between Ned's 5 children.

Quote

Yes. im talking about her grandsons. 

Then I'm not sure what your issue is.

Quote

 



Cregan was born in 108, so 106 years before  the current story. 

Right.

  • Cregan/ Willem
  • Brandon/Jocelyn
  • Beron/Jocelyn's daughter
  • Willem/ Anya
  • blank/Morton
  • blank/ adult Roland

For Jocelyn to be Anya's grandmother that brach will have had to have bred quicker, by at least two generations, than the Freys, Starks and Lannisters.

It just does not seem likely, which is what your argument hinges on. That somehow Harry was the likely heir in Robb's will, despite the fact that even in your own scenario he'd not be the senior male from the line of Jocelyn.

Quote

 



If we assume the median age of the birth calculations, Serena Stark's grandsons would likely be 30 or near it.  Her own sons in their late 40's early 50's.

I don't think that the case. Serena was married before her second husband. We don'f have a birth date for her or for her children, so I'm not sure how you are coming up with the ages of them.

Quote

Latest possible birth date theories, secondary unmentioned branches of houses theories, LOL 

Sorry, please exapand on this.

Quote

 

She needs the support of his House and the allies of his House.
 

His House? As long as Robin's alive Harry is just the son of a landed knight.

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If the heir is Jon no because legitimizing bastards is only considered when theres a succession crisis and Robb thought Bran and Rickon were dead but the Northerners know they're alive making it null and void.

And Westeros hates bastards and would probably not accept Jon especially since hes a black brother.

Edited by R2D

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6 hours ago, R2D said:

legitimizing bastards is only considered when theres a succession crisis

Like when Aegon IV legitimised all his bastards? 

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2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Like when Aegon IV legitimised all his bastards? 

I don't think you are playing fair there! :)

You know full well that Aegon IV had the epithet 'the Unworthy' and that his actions cannot be taken as precedence of what a responsible ruler would do. Robb was trying to be a responsible ruler and prevent a succession crisis, not create one.

 

 ...Which is part of the reason I also think Robb named Harry in his will, only not Harry the Heir, rather Harrison Karstark. I reckon that Robb would have imagined two scenarios:

1) Robb does not die in battle, and goes on to beget heirs by Jeyne; knowledge that he had named Harrison in the will opens the doors to future rapprochement between the two Houses  and in a generation or two the rift could be sealed by a marriage.

2) Robb dies in battle. Karstark emnity dies with him, and a Karstark can become a Stark (not on the basis that they are particularly closely related, having not intermarried for several generations, but because that is the entire Karstark identify/mythos as a Cadet House.  Thus whilst Robb's death would create one problem for his kingdom (loss of a beloved young leader) it would solve another (rebellion of one of the major Houses).

It would also give an answer to why the will has not been acted upon yet. Harrison Karstark is a Lannister prisoner. The northern/Riverland loyalists are waiting till the prisoners are on the open road to free them, rather than trying to spring them from the dungeons of a defended castle.

Edited by Buried Treasure

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5 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said:

I don't think you are playing fair there! :)

You know full well that Aegon IV had the epithet 'the Unworthy' and that his actions cannot be taken as precedence of what a responsible ruler would do. Robb was trying to be a responsible ruler and prevent a succession crisis, not create one.

The point was that it’s simply not true that legitimising bastards is only done when there is a succession crisis. Yes, Aegon IV was a terrible king, I’m not disputing that in any way. But other kings may decide to legitimise bastards for any number or reasons, not only if there is a problem w/ succession. The main takeaway imo is that only a king can legitimise a bastard, and that said king can do so for many different reasons. 

5 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said:

 

 ...Which is part of the reason I also think Robb named Harry in his will, only not Harry the Heir, rather Harrison Karstark. I reckon that Robb would have imagined two scenarios:

1) Robb does not die in battle, and goes on to beget heirs by Jeyne, knowledge that he had named Harrison in the will opens the doors to future rapprochement between the two Houses  and in a generation or two the rift could be sealed by a marriage.

2) Robb dies in battle. Karstark emnity dies with him, and a Karstark can become a Stark (not on the basis that they are particularly closely related, having not intermarried for several generations, but because that is the entire Karstark identify/mythos as a Cadet House.  This whilst Robb's death would create one problem for his kingdom (loss of a beloved young leader) it would solve another (rebellion of one of the major Houses).

It would also give an answer to why the will has not been acted upon yet. Harrison Karstark is a Lannister prisoner. The northern/Riverland loyalists are waiting till the prisoners are on the open road to free them, rather than trying to spring them from the dungeons of a defended castle.

I find it hugely unlikely that Robb would have named Harrion Karstark his heir. Robb decides to write the will after the Battle at Duskendale. Why would he name someone who is, at that point, either a prisoner, dead, or whose whereabouts are unknown? 

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32 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I find it hugely unlikely that Robb would have named Harrion Karstark his heir. Robb decides to write the will after the Battle at Duskendale. Why would he name someone who is, at that point, either a prisoner, dead, or whose whereabouts are unknown? 

Roose had said that he would keep Harry close, and indeed did keep much of the Karstark foot with his own forces. So Robb might not have known the detail that Karstark was captured, and assumed he still with the intact Bolton army (as an aside & independent of my theory - why was Harrison at Duskendale with Glover rather than with Bolton and his own foot soldiers?)

 

Harrion was an imperfect choice, but even if Robb had named someone riding by his side to the Neck, that individual could die in the same battle that killed Robb. Harrion at least has the advantage of his own heirs - a sister, paternal uncle & cousin we know of - which means the succession is resolved beyond him.

I don't reckon he was any less secure a choice than Jon, who could have been lost like Benjen since Robb was last in contact, or might not be released from the NW by the Lord Commander, and who has no heirs of his own which would put the northern succession back at square one in the event of his death.

Edited by Buried Treasure

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