US Politics: Presidential Harris-ment!

[DanteGabriel]

13 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

What the hell is a K-hive? Killer bees?

No, that's Beyonce's online fan attack squad, I think.

ETA: As with many other things, there is a Vox explainer.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/25/20697783/khive-twitter-kamala-harris-2020-candidate-doug-hive

[Ormond]

22 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Seeing the same people who freaked out over Bernie Bros are now talking about the K-Hive as if they aren't the most psychotic of the Democratic candidates supporters. Bernie Bros have nothing on K-hive in terms of being toxic, and you're not going to hear a peep about them.

Being an elderly person who never uses Twitter, I had never heard of the K-Hive before reading this post.

But I must say that after reading four or five articles about them that I found through Googling, that your opinion of them as "psychotic" seems a bit overblown. At least I didn't find any other opinions that seem to think they are worse than "Bernie Bros", and most seem to think they aren't quite as bad. 

[Mindwalker]

I'm sorry to be *that* nitpicky person today, but it's very hot here, so... "K-hive" sounds pretty misogynist to me. Associations: Bees - K as a queen, all males ae poor drones... surely here must be a better term to coin for valid critiism?

[JGP]

58 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

I'm sorry to be *that* nitpicky person today, but it's very hot here, so... "K-hive" sounds pretty misogynist to me. Associations: Bees - K as a queen, all males ae poor drones... surely here must be a better term to coin for valid critiism?

Like I said earlier, it's what they named themselves. 

[DMC]

18 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

It's a shift of 2% per your links.

No, not if you actually bother to look at the data.  Comparing the 2016 to the 2018 exits, white women went from 43/52 to 49/49.  That's a shift of -9 to even with 37% of the electorate.  That's how you win elections.  Or more thoroughly, that shift is how you win close and polarized elections that you lost last time.

[Ormond]

1 minute ago, Mindwalker said:

I'm sorry to be *that* nitpicky person today, but it's very hot here, so... "K-hive" sounds pretty misogynist to me. Associations: Bees - K as a queen, all males ae poor drones... surely here must be a better term to coin for valid critiism?

Perhaps, but the articles I found about them said the term was based on Bey-Hive, which was previously the term used for super-fans of the singer Beyonce. (And through those article I also learned that "stan", short for "super-fan", is now used as both a noun and a verb to describe people who regularly defend their favorite celebrities on Twitter.)

[GrimTuesday]

2 minutes ago, Week said:

Haven't seen it or experienced it at all. This framing seems ... biased. Any links?

I'm afraid I don't have any specific links at the moment, but when Benie had his heart attack they were pretty vile, and said some pretty fucked up things about Nina Turner and Briahna Joy Grey.

You can read the responses to this tweet by a critic of Harris.

 

Only difference between the subject of these two articles is who the "Online Army" supports

Just now, Maithanet said:

I have never heard the term K-hive until just now.  It is hard to believe they were a really key player in the democratic primary. 

They weren't, in so far as the extremely online Bernie Bros were also not a key player in the primary, and were given an undue amount of exposure and hostility that was directed at Sanders supporters.

15 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I have never heard this term either but I suppose that's just the nefarious influence of the mainstream media and DNC again.

One delightful part of the Harris nomination is the Bernie fans using it as a fresh occasion to pick at their scabs and complain about her lack of purity.

Give me a fucking break man, There was decidedly a different standard in the media between how Bernie supporters were covered vs how other candidates were covered, and Harris supporters were frankly the worst of the lot. I'm not excusing the actions of some Bernie supporters, nor am I saying that all the K-Hive folks were representative of all Harris supporters.

[Kalbear]

Just now, DMC said:

No, not if you actually bother to look at the data.  Comparing the 2016 to the 2018 exits, white women went from 43/52 to 49/49.  That's a shift of -9 to even with 37% of the electorate.  That's how you win elections.  Or more thoroughly, that shift is how you win close and polarized elections that you lost last time.

Per the other data, it was 45-47 before. I guess comparing exit polls to exit polls is probably more accurate though, so that's reasonable. 

[Mindwalker]

6 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Like I said earlier, it's what they named themselves. 

Oops. Nevermind. So they wanna be mindless drones...okay.

I need to cool down... literally.

Move on. Nothing to see here.

[Kalbear]

Just now, GrimTuesday said:

They weren't, in so far as the extremely online Bernie Bros were also not a key player in the primary, and were given an undue amount of exposure and hostility that was directed at Sanders supporters. 

Anything equivalent to Chapo? No? Anything equivalent to Joe Rogan? No? Huh.

Just now, GrimTuesday said:

Give me a fucking break man, There was decidedly a different standard in the media between how Bernie supporters were covered vs how other candidates were covered

That's because there was a substantive difference in how Sanders supporters acted online, both in amount (Sanders supporters were 2-3 times more likely to exist online compared to other candidates) and in negative content (Sanders supporters were negative 50% more often than other supporters). Basically, if you found a negative or extremely negative person online they were 6 times more likely to be a Sanders supporter than a supporter of any other kind.

Just now, GrimTuesday said:

, and Harris supporters were frankly the worst of the lot.

Citation needed.

Just now, GrimTuesday said:

I'm not excusing the actions of some Bernie supporters, nor am I saying that all the K-Hive folks were representative of all Harris supporters.

You're literally saying that in the sentence right before this one.

[maarsen]

5 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Perhaps, but the articles I found about them said the term was based on Bey-Hive, which was previously the term used for super-fans of the singer Beyonce. (And through those article I also learned that "stan", short for "super-fan", is now used as both a noun and a verb to describe people who regularly defend their favorite celebrities on Twitter.)

Stan as a fan type person comes from an Eminem song. Stan took his fandom to extremes. 

[JGP]

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

Oops. Nevermind. So they anna be mindless drone...okay.

I need to cool down... literally.

Nah, it's all good. They're hard to compare [k-hive v berniebros] but the former *seemed much more willing to engage in informed debate on whatever issue was at hand. At least to me. Could be the fact that I liked Harris and never ran afoul of the k-hive though. Can't say the same for some of the berniebros.

 

[edit: *seem? we'll see i guess, they'll likely feel validated now]

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

I guess comparing exit polls to exit polls is probably more accurate though, so that's reasonable. 

There is the problem with who turns out in midterms v. presidential, but intuitively that should just depress white women vis-a-vis women of color, which in turn should boost the gender gap even more.  Surprised to see myself when linking those two exits that the white women's percentage of the electorate was exactly the same in 2018 as it was in 2016.  Goes to show how nationalized politics has become I guess.  Alternatively, it could be an indication that Hillary's lack of black turnout really did skew the regular general electorate.  Which, again, only supports Harris as the VP nominee.

[Ormond]

1 minute ago, maarsen said:

Stan as a fan type person comes from an Eminem song. Stan took his fandom to extremes. 

Very interesting! Maybe when someday I write one of my name columns on "Stanley" I can use that.

[maarsen]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Very interesting! Maybe when someday I write one of my name columns on "Stanley" I can use that.

Listen to the song. Stan was akin to the lead fan in Misery. 

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Maybe when someday I write one of my name columns on "Stanley" I can use that.

Please also take Stanley from The Office (American version) into account.  And, of course, Stan from South Park.

[Kalbear]

This quote from Vox sounds not great

Quote

Shortly after the election, Sheryl Gay Stolberg of the New York Times talked to women of all races about their reasons for voting for Trump. A number said they were disturbed “by an America that seems to have embraced multiculturalism and political correctness without question,” she wrote. “They said they did not understand the Black Lives Matter movement, wondered why Democrats seemed so fixated on transgender access to bathrooms and tended to be enraged at the way veterans are treated and violence directed at the police.”

As always, the point is that white women aren't single-issue voters, and whether or not he makes sexist remarks one way or another is probably far less important than his handling of the BLM stuff, his handling of COVID and the economy, and his handling of schools. 

[SFDanny]

As a old lefty, let me say I'm incredibly excited about Harris joining the Biden ticket. I supported her in her own run for President, and have pushed the idea of her as Vice President since her own campaign stopped. Kamala is a progressive who knows how to make a difference and get things done. I believe she will have a major impact on a Biden administration on a myriad of issues starting with criminal justice reform. I know she will bring out motivated voters that just may make the difference between a Biden landslide and a narrow election that Trump will do everything to steal.

I've had the privilege to see her work in my city of San Francisco and in California. I've watched her on the national stage as a dynamic freshman senator, and a presidential candidate. Not only am I excited by the prospects of kicking the racist, corrupt, wannabe dictator out of the White House, but also what the future might bring and the role Senator Harris can play in helping bring that future about.

Regardless if you are as excited by the addition of Kamala as I am, it is time to join together to kick Trump out of politics and into a jail cell where he belongs. Please make sure you are registered to vote, and vote early. Trump will try to destroy our ability to vote, both by mail and in person. Don't let him get away with it.

[GrimTuesday]

1 minute ago, Kalibear said:

Anything equivalent to Chapo? No? Anything equivalent to Joe Rogan? No? Huh.

That's because there was a substantive difference in how Sanders supporters acted online, both in amount (Sanders supporters were 2-3 times more likely to exist online compared to other candidates) and in negative content (Sanders supporters were negative 50% more often than other supporters). Basically, if you found a negative or extremely negative person online they were 6 times more likely to be a Sanders supporter than a supporter of any other kind.

Citation needed.

You're literally saying that in the sentence right before this one.

Man, I'm not going to re litigate whether or not Bernie Bros are the evil boogeyman or r not, neither of us are going to change each others minds. All I'm saying is that from what I saw, and many other people in the Bernie Sphere saw, was a lot of bullshit thrown our way from Harris supporters. I"m not even complaining that the K-hive folks were too toxic, I don't care about civility politics personally the examples that I gave earlier were examples that most people would find objectionable. What I care about is that one side was vilified and the other is now being touted as a glorious boon to the ticket.

As for you saying that I am excusing anything, that is untrue, though I can see how you misunderstood what I was saying. As I said, her supporters were the worst of the non-Bernie supporters in terms of their interactions with others, that is not saying that K-Hive was representative of all Harris supporters, nor were Bernie Bros representative of all Bernie supporters.

53 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Being an elderly person who never uses Twitter, I had never heard of the K-Hive before reading this post.

But I must say that after reading four or five articles about them that I found through Googling, that your opinion of them as "psychotic" seems a bit overblown. At least I didn't find any other opinions that seem to think they are worse than "Bernie Bros", and most seem to think they aren't quite as bad. 

Calling them psychotic is definitely hyperbole, gotta get my brain out of primary mode. That said, I think one of the reasons that you don't see the articles about K-hive being bad is because of the difference between the people who caught the brunt of the two sides ire. Bernie Bros went after journalists who they saw as spreading misinformation. In my experience K-Hive folks were going after Bernie supporters directly (not that Bernie supporters didn't go after other candidates supporters too). Obviously when it is journalists and public figures who get attacked, you're going to hear about it more because they are more visible have a larger platform.

[Fez]

53 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Stan as a fan type person comes from an Eminem song. Stan took his fandom to extremes. 

Huh. I legit had no idea that's where that came from. Considering what Stan did in that song, I find it interesting that people say things like "I stan for [x]" as though it was a good thing.

 

Anyway, on politics, I'm fine with Harris as the pick; she was the obvious choice for a reason. I do think Dems need to be careful to not fall into the trap of 2016 though. Attack Trump for how he's directly hurting Americans, not for the fact that he's a monstrous asshole. I don't think undecided voters will care if Trump mispronounces Kamala's name, but they may care about Trump undermining the funding for Social Security and Medicare.