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How many of the current Great Houses will make it to the end?


James Steller

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22 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Starks, in name at least, are still a Great House. Roose has only been given the Wardenship of the North, but the Starks are still the Overlords of the North.

Whats the difference? 

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"Seven faces for Your Grace's seven kingdoms," the bride's father explained. He showed them how each face bore the sigil of one of the great houses: ruby lion, emerald rose, onyx stag, silver trout, blue jade falcon, opal sun, and pearl direwolf.

"A splendid cup," said Joffrey, "but we'll need to chip the wolf off and put a squid in its place, I think."

Joffrey seemed to think Stark was no longer a great house

22 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The reason they needed fake Arya is to rule the North via the Stark name,

Petyr, Tywin or Roose decided they needed a fake Arya to rule Winterfell, not the North. 

Thats interesting though, is Arya and/or Jeyne the rightful ruler while Ramsay is just a subordinate spouse? Like some Dany Hizdhar situation. Its not like Ramsay can claim right of conquest, though he totally did

 

So I do think Stark will be a thing at the end, Lannister too. Outlook doesn't look good but I got faith in our guys... Maybe Tully too.( Roslins kid. I like that unbornchild, "tell me about the day i was born" lol)

The others, lol. So Arryns pretty much already clipped with Lord Robert having one foot out the moon door. Itll soon be Hardying flying grey and white like a good lord husband pawn.  

Greyjoys just a fucking mess, so whos our dog in this race, dickless Theon?  Vic Aeron and Euron dont seem like the fatherly type so unless Asha can get pregnant without yet meeting her husband (Though then it wouldnt be the anti sowing Greyjoy weve come to love but lord old fat guys house... I dont know his name, Asha probably doesnt either) id say the kraken might as well take the moon door too.

All of em really. Like whos gonna look back at Baratheon rule and think good times? Maybe some zealots shivering with Stannis and Shireen in the north, but not the Stormlanders who are dancing with the Griffin at Stormend.

Tyrell too, not a great track record so far. The midsouthwest remembers. I mean they look ok now but I got no doubt Tyrell will fall to one of their scheming neighbors. Martell, eh probably not to be honest. One can hope though

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18 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Whats the difference? 

House Stark still rule the North, if in name only.

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Joffrey seemed to think Stark was no longer a great house

Joffrey is an idiot, but do you have a quote for that? I'd be interested to see the context.

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Petyr, Tywin or Roose decided they needed a fake Arya to rule Winterfell, not the North. 

Winterfell is the capital of the North.

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Thats interesting though, is Arya and/or Jeyne the rightful ruler while Ramsay is just a subordinate spouse? Like some Dany Hizdhar situation. Its not like Ramsay can claim right of conquest, though he totally did

That would be my take. That is why Tyrion thinks of himself as Lord Protector of Winterfell, not Lord.

It is pretty much confirmed in a Theon chapter in ADWD

Talk like that will get you killed, or worse. That lesson he had learned as Reek. "You are the real Arya, my lady. Arya of House Stark, Lord Eddard's daughter, heir to Winterfell." Her name, she had to know her name. "Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface."

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The others, lol. So Arryns pretty much already clipped with Lord Robert having one foot out the moon door. Itll soon be Hardying flying grey and white like a good lord husband pawn.  

There are many, many Arryn cousins still alive in the Vale. Don't you think it more likely that Harry will adopt the name as this can't be the first time this has happened to one of the Great Houses.

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Greyjoys just a fucking mess, so whos our dog in this race, dickless Theon?  Vic Aeron and Euron dont seem like the fatherly type so unless Asha can get pregnant without yet meeting her husband (Though then it wouldnt be the anti sowing Greyjoy weve come to love but lord old fat guys house... I dont know his name, Asha probably doesnt either) id say the kraken might as well take the moon door too.

There are other Greyjoy branches still alive. Two such cousins we see with Asha

"We should go to Torrhen's Square and join the fight," urged Quenton Greyjoy, a distant cousin and captain of the Salty Wench.

"Aye," said Dagon Greyjoy, a cousin still more distant. Dagon the Drunkard, men called him, but drunk or sober he loved to fight. "Why should the Cleftjaw have all the glory for himself?"

 

Should Balon, his children and his siblings all die then the Greyjoy's will still continue via some other branch of the family.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Van Gogh said:

The Targaryens were spared from the Doom because they are the bridge from one Age ending into the start of a new Age.  Dany is not called The Mother for no reason.  A good case has been made that they came from the Emperors and Empresses of the Great Empire of the Dawn. 

Good point.  The Targaryen (Daenerys) will be the one to begin building a new empire.  It will start off as a city.  Maybe even just a settlement.  But it is the seed for the future. 

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17 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Joffrey is an idiot, but do you have a quote for that? I'd be interested to see the context.

Kings can be idiots. I supplied the quote last post, the context was Mace showing off the 7 great houses of Westeros to which Joff replied Greyjoy is now great while Stark is not. 

It was all probably just to make Sansa blush, but hes got a point, Starks dead and defeated while Winterfell was burnt. And the North was crawling with ironborn

23 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

House Stark still rule the North, if in name only.

Winterfell is the capital of the North.

Winterfell was the capitol, if yould like to call it that, but the Dreadfort is now. Bolton rules the north

25 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

That would be my take. That is why Tyrion thinks of himself as Lord Protector of Winterfell, not Lord.

It is pretty much confirmed in a Theon chapter in ADWD

Talk like that will get you killed, or worse. That lesson he had learned as Reek. "You are the real Arya, my lady. Arya of House Stark, Lord Eddard's daughter, heir to Winterfell."

Cool

25 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

There are many, many Arryn cousins still alive in the Vale. Don't you think it more likely that Harry will adopt the name 

No. Hardying is a thing. Has been a thing. Your fathers name is special, especially to all these herald loving lords. 

I think itd be disrespectful to his ancestors

27 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

as this can't be the first time this has happened to one of the Great Houses

The likelihood of that is pretty strong. I suppose most times people just lie, like Bael the bard or Aegon the Young Griff

29 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Should Balon, his children and his siblings all die then the Greyjoy's will still continue via some other branch of the family.

Why? Thats greenland law. Balons direct family has been instrumental in the leadership of his people so its safe to assume their kid will hold power, but some offshoot drunk cousins who follow Asha around from to defeat to defeat probably wont win the support of its people

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4 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

No. Hardying is a thing. Has been a thing. Your fathers name is special, especially to all these herald loving lords. 

I think itd be disrespectful to his ancestors

The Arryn name is much more prestigious than Hardying(which are just landed knights). This has happened before with the lannisters too

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5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Kings can be idiots. I supplied the quote last post, the context was Mace showing off the 7 great houses of Westeros to which Joff replied Greyjoy is now great while Stark is not. 

No, Joff said that they should replace the Stark sigil, not that they were officially no longer a great House.

Joffrey died in ASOS. According to the appendix of A Dance of Dragons the Starks were still a Great House.

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It was all probably just to make Sansa blush, but hes got a point, Starks dead and defeated while Winterfell was burnt. And the North was crawling with ironborn

Winterfell's been destroyed before. The Ironborn have had Northern lands before. The Starks still appear to be the Overlords, in name at least, of the North. The Boltons and Lannisters are hoping to rule through Stark brides.

It was not in Tywin's interests to have the crown strip the Starks of their position as Overlords. He was counting on exploiting that

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Winterfell was the capitol, if yould like to call it that, but the Dreadfort is now. Bolton rules the north

No, it still seems to be Winterfell. Where in the books does it now suggest that Dreadfort is now the capital?

Roose is Warden, not ruler. Jaime did not become the ruler of the Vale when he became Warden of the East. Daven Lannister is not the ruler of the Westerlands despite being the new Warden of the West.

Warden and Lord are two different titles, there may be some overlap, but they have different meanings.

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No. Hardying is a thing. Has been a thing. Your fathers name is special, especially to all these herald loving lords. 

That is my point. Check Harry's heraldy

It was only then that she took note of his heraldry. Though his surcoat and horse trappings were patterned in the red-and-white diamonds of House Hardyng, his shield was quartered. The arms of Hardyng and Waynwood were displayed in the first and third quarters, respectively, but in the second and fourth quarters he bore the moon-and-falcon of House Arryn, sky blue and cream. Sweetrobin will not like that.

 

He's already highlighting his Arryn ancestry more so than his Hardyng and Waynwood blood.  The Arryn name gets him the Vale, hes' got more reason to be proud of that than he does his Hardyng blood.

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I think itd be disrespectful to his ancestors

To some of his ancestors, obviously not to his Arryn ancestors, the people who are making him ruler.

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Why? Thats greenland law.

It is the law the Iron Islands has been following for the last few centuries.

Maybe Euron will be a huge success, and they will follow his methods, but if not there will be other Greyjoys to inherit should Euron, Victarion, Asha, Theon and Aeron all die.

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Balons direct family has been instrumental in the leadership of his people so its safe to assume their kid will hold power, but some offshoot drunk cousins who follow Asha around from to defeat to defeat probably wont win the support of its people

Dude I'm not sure your following my point. If the branch of Quellon dies out then another Greyjoy will inherit their lands, wealth and ships. They'd become, theoretically(presuming the Greyjoys already were), the most powerful House in the Iron Islands. The Greyjoys would still be a Great House.

Fire and Blood actually gave up multiple examples with House Arryn and cousins inheriting the Vale. They did not face rebellion from the Royces or other Vale Houses because they were not direct sons or daughters of the last ruling Lord.

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8 hours ago, The Hoare said:

The Arryn name is much more prestigious than Hardying(which are just landed knights). This has happened before with the lannisters too

I dont think its right. I wouldnt do it. Why should he anyway? Whatever the lord of the Eyrie calls himself, no one will notice. Theyll just be staring at his wife like a KL stableboy, while the Lysa clone whos draped in Neds cloak will rejuvenate the knights with the cold eyes of the North, like her (other) husband

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, it still seems to be Winterfell. Where in the books does it now suggest that Dreadfort is now the capital?

Roose is Warden, not ruler.

Bolton rules man. Thats why when Roose says jump the North says how high

.

I have a mind to march against the Dreadfort." When he saw the shock on Jon's face, he smiled. "Does that surprise you? Good. What surprises one Snow may yet surprise another. The Bastard of Bolton has gone south, taking Hother Umber with him. On that Mors Umber and Arnolf Karstark are agreed. That can only mean a strike at Moat Cailin, to open the way for his lord father to return to the north. The bastard must think I am too busy with the wildlings to trouble him. Well and good. The boy has shown me his throat. I mean to rip it out. Roose Bolton may regain the north, but when he does he will find that his castle, herds, and harvest all belong to me.

 .

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

That is my point. Check Harry's heraldy

It was only then that she took note of his heraldry. Though his surcoat and horse trappings were patterned in the red-and-white diamonds of House Hardyng, his shield was quartered. The arms of Hardyng and Waynwood were displayed in the first and third quarters, respectively, but in the second and fourth quarters he bore the moon-and-falcon of House Arryn, sky blue and cream. Sweetrobin will not like that.

 

He's already highlighting his Arryn ancestry more so than his Hardyng and Waynwood blood.  The Arryn name gets him the Vale, hes' got more reason to be proud of that than he does his Hardyng blood.

To some of his ancestors, obviously not to his Arryn ancestors, the people who are making him ruler.

Word. Still, Petyr described some of Lord Robert and Harrys cousins as having the magical Arryn name, which to me implies that Harry wont be enthusiastically committed to change his name

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is the law the Iron Islands has been following for the last few centuries.

Coincidence. Ask Aeron, greenland laws not a thing in the Islands 

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Maybe Euron will be a huge success, and they will follow his methods

Oh, no doubt. Arryn too, Lord Robert aint dead yet. Even if he takes the moon door maybe he'll glide out with finesse, like the sweet robin he is. He has a cousin who can fly, ya know. 

Still, unlikely

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

inherit their lands, wealth and ships. They'd become, theoretically(presuming the Greyjoys already were), the most powerful House in the Iron Islands. The Greyjoys would still be a Great House

I dont think Im following. What do you consider a great house? Frey and Hightower? Because I dont think wealth and power make a house great. 

To my understanding theres only 8 great houses, at least as of agot. 

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

I dont think its right. I wouldnt do it. Why should he anyway?

It gives him legitimacy and prestige. The reason the Freys are looked down upon is because they are an upstart house, only being 600 year old.

Why would Harry want to be a Hardyng, a House that did not even raise him, when he could be an Arryn? The greatest institution in the Vale.

The Arryn's have ruled for thousands of years. There is a security in that. The Vale lords have been sword to an Arryn for thousands of years. Why would he risk them renouncing their vows to a Hardyng?

As soon as he did something his lords found questionable they have ready made replacements, replacements with the right last name.

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Bolton rules man. Thats why when Roose says jump the North says how high

So why is Roose having Jeyne pretend to be a Stark?

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

Word. Still, Petyr described some of Lord Robert and Harrys cousins as having the magical Arryn name, which to me implies that Harry wont be enthusiastically committed to change his name

How so? Why has he changed his sigil?

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Coincidence. Ask Aeron, greenland laws not a thing in the Islands 

It has mostly been for the last 3 centuries.

This point is moot. Either the Iron Islands ends up an independent realm or rejoin Westeros. If it is the latter then the Greyjoys are more than likely the Great House.

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Oh, no doubt. Arryn too, Lord Robert aint dead yet. Even if he takes the moon door maybe he'll glide out with finesse, like the sweet robin he is. He has a cousin who can fly, ya know. 

ok

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

I dont think Im following. What do you consider a great house? Frey and Hightower? Because I dont think wealth and power make a house great. 

Rulers of a region are most commonly referred to as the Great Houses.

But that is my understanding of it, it might not be 100% accurate. GRRM, like his use of lords, is not always consistent with his use of great house. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

To my understanding theres only 8 great houses, at least as of agot. 

That would be mine as well.

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5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

It gives him legitimacy and prestige.

He already is legitimate, and the Eyrie is plenty prestigious enough

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The reason the Freys are looked down upon is because they are an upstart house, only being 600 year old.

I think its cuz of the power they have amassed in such a short time. Haryding in the Eyrie totally fits this description too though.

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Why would Harry want to be a Hardyng

He is one though. Perhaps if he already had a dislike for his family but as is, hes probably goy a few cool ancestors who had epic tales. 

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

, a House that did not even raise him,

Lol, that means little though. Many characters like Ned, Robert, Young Griff, and Quentyn are raised outside their prestigious house

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

when he could be an Arryn? The greatest institution in the Vale.

Cuz hes not. Idk, its possible i guess. I just dont see it

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Arryn's have ruled for thousands of years. There is a security in that. The Vale lords have been sword to an Arryn for thousands of years. Why would he risk them renouncing their vows to a Hardyng?

Thats not what's happening. There are no more people named Arryn, the closest relative to Lord Robert is the Heir, which is why hes called the Heir. No one's renouncing anything

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

As soon as he did something his lords found questionable they have ready made replacements, replacements with the right last name

Theyll have to play pretend for that, which is possible cus theyre probably gonna think there playing pretend with the dark haired Alayne no wolf Stark.

But speaking of Stark, shes gonna be calling the shots. Shes the one who would have the RL and North stand at attention, not to mention her pull in the Vale

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

So why is Roose having Jeyne pretend to be a Stark?

To claim Winterfell, not the entire North. Cuz thats Rooses already, kinda like how Jaime hands his uncle Riverrun and then tells him to report to Petyr

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

How so?

Harry doesn't have the name but is still considered the heir and no one seems too bothered

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Why has he changed his sigil?

He likes it. Joff did too, boy was still Baratheon

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

This point is moot. Either the Iron Islands ends up an independent realm or rejoin Westeros. If it is the latter then the Greyjoys are more than likely the Great House

Former too. How can a king not be great? 

Idk man, if like Tommon kills Euron in hand to hand and the priests get together and decide to honor the IT but instead of lord Greyjoy its like, lord "tho all men despise us" will anyone in KL care?

Pyke is not the largest island nor the oldest, Greyjoys hold is not secure, especially with all these human rights that they got (the not thrall humans)

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

That would be mine as well.

Cool

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Zero houses from the north will survive.  They are on the path of the Others and the army of wights.  The population of the north will become wights. 

The southernmost families will have survivors but they will eventually have to escape to Essos in order to live on.  Lose the lands and castles and they are no better than regular folk. 

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On 8/15/2020 at 6:12 AM, Son of Man said:

Targaryen - Because this is their story.  The additional materials are all about them.  Fire and Blood, Dunk and Egg, World of Ice and Fire.  This family will survive.  It may only be one or two (Daenerys T and Aegon Blackfyre) but they will live on.  The Targaryen family is Martin's best creation.  Even the family name is just too cool. 

 

 

I just cannot fathom why people think this series is about the Targaryens. Lmao if there's one totally toast house it's them. 

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11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

He already is legitimate, and the Eyrie is plenty prestigious enough

The Arryn name gives him legitimacy. The Hardyng's are just some minor House in the Vale, it is unclear if they even have their own lands.

The Eyrie is owned by the Arryns.

 

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

He is one though. Perhaps if he already had a dislike for his family but as is, hes probably goy a few cool ancestors who had epic tales. 

Yes, and they mostly will have Arryn as a last name.

Why are you ignoring his Arryn ancestry?

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Lol, that means little though. Many characters like Ned, Robert, Young Griff, and Quentyn are raised outside their prestigious house

Most of those characters spent some time in their Houses.

Harry was raised at the Waynwood's. His father did not have his own lands, he was in service to the Waynwoods.

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Cuz hes not. Idk, its possible i guess. I just dont see it

Based on what?

I don't see how 'I just don't see it' is a pertinent argument to make.

What part of the text have you based your decision on?

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Thats not what's happening. There are no more people named Arryn,

Yes there are. How many times do I have to repeat the same part of the text in this thread?

There are several branches of House Arryn scattered across the Vale, all as proud as they are penurious, save for the Gulltown Arryns, who had the rare good sense to marry merchants. They're rich, but less than couth, so no one talks about them. Ser Denys hailed from one of the poor, proud branches . . .

 

There are other Arryns knocking about the Vale.

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

the closest relative to Lord Robert is the Heir, which is why hes called the Heir. No one's renouncing anything

Yes, he is the closest, but not the only relative.

In thousands of years of history do you think this is the first time this has happened to House Arryn? That a daughter's son has inherited?

Why do you think the children of Lady Waynwood, Lady Oakheart, Lady Mormont, Lady Stokeworth all take their mother's name?

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Theyll have to play pretend for that, which is possible cus theyre probably gonna think there playing pretend with the dark haired Alayne no wolf Stark.

But speaking of Stark, shes gonna be calling the shots. Shes the one who would have the RL and North stand at attention, not to mention her pull in the Vale

Sansa is 13. In the books she has exhibited no pull in the North, Vale or Riverlands.

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

To claim Winterfell, not the entire North. Cuz thats Rooses already, kinda like how Jaime hands his uncle Riverrun and then tells him to report to Petyr

Winterfell is the capital of the North. The Starks, as far as we know, still rule the North.

Roose has only been given the Wardenship. The Wardenship and the Lordship are different positions.

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Harry doesn't have the name but is still considered the heir and no one seems too bothered

Of course not. As it is probably understood thats should he become Lord he will take the Arryn name.

Maester Luwin liked him better, though. "Beren Tallhart may well be our best answer," he told them when Leobald had gone. "By blood he is half Hornwood. If he takes his uncle's name . . ."

 

We are told this when it comes to the Hornwood estate. That Beren would got from Tallhart to Hornwood if he wanted to inherit.

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

He likes it. Joff did too, boy was still Baratheon

Yes. Are you ignoring what I said? What Sansa said?

Harry, on his own accord, had changed his sigil to make it 50% Arryn, 25% Waynwood and 25% Hardyng.

What do you think Harry was trying to achieve by doing that?

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Former too. How can a king not be great? 

What? What is your understanding of a great House? In your previous comment you claimed to think they the ruling Lords of Westeros, not kings. Have you now changed your position?

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Idk man, if like Tommon kills Euron in hand to hand and the priests get together and decide to honor the IT but instead of lord Greyjoy its like, lord "tho all men despise us" will anyone in KL care?

?

11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Pyke is not the largest island nor the oldest, Greyjoys hold is not secure, especially with all these human rights that they got (the not thrall humans)

An island or land does not have to be the largest or the oldest to be the most powerful.

 

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On 8/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, Mon ami said:

I don't see a way for the great houses to continue.  The nobles will lose their power when the peasants realize those in power cannot stop the white walkers.  Their bellies will start growling and then they have no reason to share their food with the lords and the ladies.  So none of the great houses will survive in Westeros.  At least not as great houses.  They will become gatherers and scavengers like the peasants.  And those like Sansa will be the least able to adapt to scavenging.  She should and will die.  Planetos/Earthos will be reset and the coming dawn will bring a new order.  Those who once claimed descent from a great house will be no better than the peasants in status.  In some ways, yes there will be people descended from the nobles but they will no longer be lords and ladies. 

The royal family of old Westeros, House Targaryen, will continue to live on in Essos.  Daenerys Targaryen will build her own empire in the east.  This will be the beginning of a new empire of the new dawn.  Made up of freed slaves, Westerosi refugees, reformed Ghiscari, the Dothraki, and many others. 

 

On 8/15/2020 at 1:14 PM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

 

If GRRM doesn't finish the series, this is how I'll envision the ending. I love it! A Marxist ending like nothing we've ever had before in mainstream fiction.

I would love this ending.  No more lords, ladies, and such in Westeros.  Just scattered tribes of savages living off the dead like crows and direwolves.  Begin civilization again in places like Vaes Tolorro.  

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On 8/15/2020 at 11:12 PM, Son of Man said:

Frey - Too numerous for every member to perish.  Not a Great House, but should be.  I don't think even the madness of Stoneheart and Arya can extinguish this family.

There's even a bit of Frey in her niece/nephew. Walder Frey gets the last laugh. He is the true master in the game of thrones.

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10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Arryn name gives him legitimacy.

His Arryn grandmother gave him legitimacy

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Hardyng's are just some minor House in the Vale, it is unclear if they even have their own lands.

The Eyrie is owned by the Arryns.

Well, theyll be owning land, the Eyrie, thats enough land for now

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Why are you ignoring his Arryn ancestry?

Because its not his last name. Kinda like how they didnt call the King of the Trident the Young Fish

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Most of those characters spent some time in their Houses.

Harry was raised at the Waynwood's. His father did not have his own lands, he was in service to the Waynwoods

So what? Dany was raised by a red door and wishes she could frolic barefoot like smallfolk, but she cant. She is her fathers daughter

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Based on what?

I don't see how 'I just don't see it' is a pertinent argument to make.

What part of the text have you based your decision on?

Hes not an Arryn. Lineage history is very important in Westeros. 

Harry doesnt have a magical name, if everyone assumed hed switch his name like Dick Whitman then Petyr wouldnt have even brought it up

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

How many times do I have to repeat the same part of the text in this thread?

Hopefully thats it Ty

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Why do you think the children of Lady Waynwood, Lady Oakheart, Lady Mormont, Lady Stokeworth all take their mother's name?

Thats true. Tandas husband wasnt a Stokeworth, I always assumed that he was a second husband or something and that Lollys had a Stokeworth father.

Same for all these people, citations please. Where does it say that they gave their kids their maiden name?

Like, im pretty sure, the only conversation with Lady Mormont about her kids was that their dads a bear

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Sansa is 13. In the books she has exhibited no pull in the North, Vale or Riverlands.

Yea, but she'll soon be 14

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Winterfell is the capital of the North. The Starks, as far as we know, still rule the North.

Roose has only been given the Wardenship. The Wardenship and the Lordship are different positions.

You keep saying that. But I keep saying Riverrun is now sworn to Harrenhall. Shit changes (momentarily)

You think Ramsay (fArya if you wish) is higher in the foodchain then Roose?

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Maester Luwin liked him better, though. "Beren Tallhart may well be our best answer," he told them when Leobald had gone. "By blood he is half Hornwood. If he takes his uncle's name . . ."

 

We are told this when it comes to the Hornwood estate. That Beren would got from Tallhart to Hornwood if he wanted to inherit.

The hornwood issue was much more complicated, but I see your precedence.

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

What do you think Harry was trying to achieve by doing that?

Aggravate Lord Robert untill he shakes himself to death?

Maybe he just likes the colors?

Ok, yes, its probably political (although that shaking idea...) That doesn't equate to thinking hes an Arryn.

Whyd Joff fly crimson?

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

What? What is your understanding of a great House? In your previous comment you claimed to think they the ruling Lords of Westeros, not kings. Have you now changed your position?

i have not lol. Ok, lets get specific. I say, I think you do as well, that great lords are one of the 8 fellas that run a kingdom in the 7 kingdoms 8 kingdoms. (Is DS a great seat? Id say no) so Robb at the time of his fathers death was a great lord, when he became king he was still pretty great. Just like Renly or Balon.

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

?

Nobody cares how they make McDonalds, as long as its there to eat.

Hopefully that was clearer

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

An island or land does not have to be the largest or the oldest to be the most powerful.

True. Pyke earned its spot with brave warriors like Dalton or Balon, thats why the ironborn followed them, not because thats how they do it in the Green

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On 8/15/2020 at 1:40 AM, James Steller said:

I’m not talking about your preferences, either. I mean more of an educated guess based on what’s happening so far in the story and what’s been hinted at in the previews of the next book (if you don’t want to have those preview chapters spoiled, consider this your warning to click away).

Nan's story is pretty clear about what happened during the last long night.  The distinction between lords and commoners disappeared as soon as the sun went away.  People with noble blood died in their castles as easily as the poor did in their huts.  Winter is death.  And death is an equalizer. 

The commoners are mentally better prepared to migrate to other locations.  The lords and their families will be very reluctant to leave their castles.  The Tyrells are the most likely of the great houses in Westeros to survive because they are many.  The Starks will live as direwolves but they will lose their human lives. 

A few Tyrells might make it through.  The ones who do will travel to Essos to find the Dragon Queen.

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10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

His Arryn grandmother gave him legitimacy

Yup. Her name.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Well, theyll be owning land, the Eyrie, thats enough land for now

That remains to be seen. Arryn, Stark, Lannister, Tully have not changed name in thousands of years.

Do you think Harry is the first person to be heir of a Great House though a female relative?

Or is it likely that there have been others and they have simply adopted the family name?

 

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Because its not his last name. Kinda like how they didnt call the King of the Trident the Young Fish

Last names can be changed when it comes to inheritance, we have multiple examples of this, do we not?

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

So what? Dany was raised by a red door and wishes she could frolic barefoot like smallfolk, but she cant. She is her fathers daughter

eh? What does frolicking have to do with our discussion?

Both Dany's parents were Targs. Her inheritance, Westeros, comes from the Targs.

What do you expect to call herself?

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Hes not an Arryn. Lineage history is very important in Westeros. 

Yes, it is. That is my point. That is why it more likely, not less, that he should he inherit he would adopt the Arryn surname.

Lineage is important. It will be far easier to command the Vale vassals as an Arryn rather than a Hardyng.

 

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Harry doesnt have a magical name, if everyone assumed hed switch his name like Dick Whitman then Petyr wouldnt have even brought it up

What? Why would he?

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Hopefully thats it Ty

Excellent.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Thats true. Tandas husband wasnt a Stokeworth, I always assumed that he was a second husband or something and that Lollys had a Stokeworth father.

So already we have examples you accept.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Same for all these people, citations please. Where does it say that they gave their kids their maiden name?

Lady Waynwood is a Waynwood. Her Waynwood uncle, married an Arryn.

Lady Waynwood and Lady Oakheart both have multiple adult sons, yet they still rule. They are the rulers of their House rather than the married ladies who have adopted the name. Lady Mormont has adult children who have taken the Mormont name, rather than her husband's. Her daughter also has children who have taken the Mormont name rather than their husbands.

Their children have likely took their last names, rather than their father's.

I concede it is possible that all three of these women may have married cousins from weaker branches of the family and that is why their children carry their last name, but that seems like a weird coincidence.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Like, im pretty sure, the only conversation with Lady Mormont about her kids was that their dads a bear

No, you are thinking of Lady Mormont's daughter Alysane, whose children are also Mormonts.

I expect she was being facetious with her story to Asha, an enemy, rather than sincerely revealing that her children are bastard bear spawn.

But even if she was telling the truth, and her children were bastards, they'd be Snows instead of Mormonts. They were able to change their name.

 

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea, but she'll soon be 14

Granted. What is your point?

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

You keep saying that. But I keep saying Riverrun is now sworn to Harrenhall. Shit changes (momentarily)

Yes, we are expressly told that in the books. We have been told no such thing about Winterfell now being sworn to the Dreadfort in the books.

The Starks are still regarded as the rulers of the North. Roose being Warden does not change that. Ramsay being married to the Stark heir does not change that.

Roose needs the Northern lords to believe that Jeyne is a Stark

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

You think Ramsay (fArya if you wish) is higher in the foodchain then Roose?

Yes. But Roose, being an adult, a man and the Warden, wields more power.

(f)Arya is hardly the first woman in such a position, Mary Queen of Scots was less powerful than some of her Lords and made to do their bidding. But she was still higher in the food chain.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

The hornwood issue was much more complicated, but I see your precedence.

Excellent.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Aggravate Lord Robert untill he shakes himself to death?

Maybe he just likes the colors?

Ok, yes, its probably political (although that shaking idea...) That doesn't equate to thinking hes an Arryn.

It shows that he aspires to be seen as an Arryn. He may even aspire to be a Waynwood.

The 25% Hardyng may well be the House he identifies the least with on his sigil.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Whyd Joff fly crimson?

Because, as has been pointed out, lineage is important and House Lannister is an old and prestigious House.

He's also a child whose mother has drilled it into him the greatness of House Lannister, while he currently faces a civil war where his Baratheon uncles plus the army of Storm's End want him dead while the Lannister army is fighting to keep him alive.

It makes perfect sense why he'd fly their colours in the context of the story.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

i have not lol. Ok, lets get specific. I say, I think you do as well, that great lords are one of the 8 fellas that run a kingdom in the 7 kingdoms 8 kingdoms. (Is DS a great seat? Id say no) so Robb at the time of his fathers death was a great lord, when he became king he was still pretty great. Just like Renly or Balon.

True.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Nobody cares how they make McDonalds, as long as its there to eat.

Hopefully that was clearer

Nope. Start from the beginning.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

True. Pyke earned its spot with brave warriors like Dalton or Balon, thats why the ironborn followed them, not because thats how they do it in the Green

That is pretty much how they do it in the Green. The Great Lords of Westeros, Tuly apart, sit on seats that won control of their respective regions.

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