Echoes of the Past, Predicting Broad Strokes of TWoW

[Isobel Harper]

GRRM connects people with one another using parallel, complementary, or sometimes inverted writing.  Using some of GRRM's most recently published material, I'm going to attempt to predict some events that might occur in the next two books in the main series of ASoIaF.  

Arryns in and after the Dance = Sweetrobin and Sansa

Here is a possible peek into some of the difficulties Sweetrobin and Sansa might face. 

In 134, Joffrey Arryn inherited the Eyrie when Jeyne Arryn died.  My first inclination is to connect "Joffrey" with illegitimate birth (ala Joffrey Baratheon).  Joffrey Arryn had no doubtful paternity, but modern day Sweetrobin does, many reader suspecting Sweetrobin to be LF's son.  Joffrey Arryn deals with an issue in inheritance when his aunt Jeyne dies; a couple of Gulltown claimants try to claim the Eyrie in his place.  In modern Westeros, Sweetrobin, should he pass away or his paternity be doubted in the boos, is likely to deal with the competition of Harry the Heir AND possibly some of those Gulltown Arryns whom LF mentions to Sansa. 

The dispute about Joffrey Arryn inheriting originates in a dispute about the validity of Jeyne Arryn's will.  Robb's will, when it becomes discovered, will cause some difficulty for Sansa, who was officially disinherited in it.  And there are some Stark-descendants in the Vale who I bet would be willing to see Jon Snow, someone "bastardborn," as not the true heir of Winterfell.

Aurane Waters

"The story grew with the telling" and the main series evolving from a set of 3 into a planned 7.  Fire and Blood and the World of Ice and Fire had similar "growths."  Fire and Blood got split into two parts and extra material from AWoIaF grew into The Princess and the Queen and The Rogue Prince.  Getting absorbed into this prequel material while simultaneously writing The Winds of Winter, I see certain characters as potential echoes of another.   Aurane Waters is one that I see as an amalgamation of several different character: Daemon Targaryen, Alyn Velaryon, Hugh Hammer, and possibly Addam Velaryon.  The implications, first and foremost, are that Aurane Waters, and perhaps House Velaryon in general, will become more prominent in the main story.  The finer details of that are still somewhat broad strokes though: both Daemon Targaryen and Alyn Velaryon get involved in the Vale.  Daemon married into it via House Royce and tries to claim lands after his wife's death; Alyn Velaryon supported claimant Joffrey Arryn in the war dispusting his inheritance their.  This could hint at Aurane showing up there.  In addition to this, both Daemon and Alyn undertook prominent battles in the Stepstones (among other places) and Aurane, per common theory, pirating there with Salladhor Sann.  

Side note: Salladhor Saan is refered to as "The Prince of the Narrow Sea."  Daemon Targaryen kinged himself as King of the Stepstones and the Narrow Seas for a time; he had a close relationship through out his life with Corlyn Velaryon, Master of Ships to King Viserys I and Queen Rhaenyra.

Hugh Hammer, like Aurane Waters, was nearly given the seat of House Rosby, and many readers make a further connection between the two regarding their ambition.  Hugh Hammer, a son of a blacksmith on Dragonstone, named himself king briefly during the Dance.  Aurane Waters hints (at least per Cersei) that he'd like to have Dragonstone as a seat.  Last but not least as a potential parallel character is Addam Velaryon.  Addam is the twin of Alyn Velaryon, mentioned previously.  There's a connection here between Hugh Hammer and Addam Velaryon: they both die at the Second Battle of Tumbleton during the Dance.  Perhaps a hint that Aurane Waters will meet a similar fate there.  If Aurane is aiding the Golden Company, and the Golden Company furthers their hold on Westeros into the Reach, battle could very well be met there. 

Side note: I'm also reminded a little of Rolly Duckfield with regard to Hugh Hammer; both were sons of blacksmiths and both would climb quite high in social standing.  Though very brief, Hugh named himself king; Rolly Duckfield became Aegon's first Kingsguard member, and likely will be his Lord Commander.

 

These are just a couple of examples of potential parallels.  I tried not to get hung up on details, but stick with the broader strokes.  Whatever connections there are among these characters, GRRM is creating archetypes that interrelate with one another.  

Do you agree with my analogues?  Or do you have some examples of your own you'd like to share?

[Curled Finger]

I'm usually skeptical about the past repeating, but it is so clearly in the works following the greater detail of blood and fire.   I'm a big proponent of The Last Hero quest being revisited in a like manner as the Long Night appears to be really happening.   I read a lot about Cersei or Stannis or Dany being parallel to many real world people--that's many each.   While I think you could fit many characters and situations to real historical figures I think there is a more organic progression of characters that begin in the seeds of our history or mythology.    With this in mind I offer up Brienne of Tarth perhaps inspired in the tales of Gallahad but becoming a sort of Dunk the Tall evolving into a version of Ser Galladon of Morne.  I see a near perfect correlation.   That doesn't make it right, but I do see it.   

As to your own examples I find no fault and have my eyes more open to this silly pirate Cersei has armed and look forward with interest to the next Lyseni Spring on Cersei's watch.   The Iron Bank isn't going to let her get by with not paying.   What I would like to see is a good explanation of Tyrion being Lann the Clever incarnate because though there is no doubt of Tyrion's cleverness, I can't see what he can get anywhere with that cleverness along the lines of Casterly Rock.  Tyrion's smart, but Lann was a real pr**k.  Same with Jon as King Arthur.   I get the secret prince but can't see him on any throne.   

That bit about the contested will in the Vale is an underestimated story.  Good on you for bringing to the fore.  

[The Commentator]

Human nature being what it is makes history repeat.  But not in the same way.  Climate patterns also repeat.  Humans react to the climate change today as they did during the last one.  AA was male the last time.  This time AA is a female.  Knowing history allows actors to study decisions made in the past and their consequences. The hope is to make better ones this time around.

[Springwatch]

On 8/18/2020 at 2:05 AM, Isobel Harper said:

Do you agree with my analogues?  Or do you have some examples of your own you'd like to share?

Coincidence, but I was reading this quote from Crows last night. I guess you're familiar with it too!

Quote

[the Reader] "Archmaester Rigney once wrote that history is a wheel, for the nature of man is fundamentally unchanging. What has happened before will perforce happen again, he said. I think of that whenever I contemplate the Crow's Eye. Euron Greyjoy sounds queerly like Urron Greyiron to these old ears...."

 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Broad strokes, the battle between fire and ice will happen.  As it has since the beginning of time.  Light versus dark is the same battle.  The fight for freedom is universal.  The haves and the have nots.  Powerful people enslaving and exploiting the weak for their own gain and comfort.  While the slaves want to break free.  The leading characters all are part of this play and nature is the master.  I believe the Starks will be the Ice faction in this fight.  Daenerys and her allies will be Fire.  The Starks will have temporary control of Westeros during the duration of the long winter and the darkness.  Daenerys will arrive just in time to herald the coming of spring and sunshine. 

Something will cause the Starks to resent humanity.  Jon is already bitter from getting stabbed.  Arya will go off her rails when she learns what happened to Jon.  I think this is how Jon becomes the new King of Winter, the Night's King.  Arya, who is death, will be the new corpse queen. 

Daenerys is the female Azor Ahai.  I wrote a long theory post about this already.  I do not think she can force the sun to come out.  None of the previous Azor Ahai were able to do that.  Nature is too powerful.  But she can let in the light and save a few people by cleaning up the walking dead and putting them to rest.  Dragons will be perfect for this clean up job. 

[Springwatch]

Dany has reached 'Dragonstone' once more - one turn of the wheel, maybe? I like the idea that the beats of her life repeat themselves, but the problem is how would it ever end?...

[nyser1]

Aegon the Conqueror 2.0?