A Simple Connection about Little Dornish Princesses

[The Green Bard]

This is a short essay that I wrote about a year ago after having finished a re-read of AFfC. I had Dorne on the brain. When reading, I couldn't help but make this linguistic connection. So with a spattering of research, here it is.

Little Princesses

GRRM refers to Dornish princesses (or at least princesses in Dorne) as "little princess" 13 times between AFFC and ADwD.  The text makes 10 references to Arianne (possibly 11), and 3 times to Myrcella (1 ambiguous mention might refer to Arianne). There are also 2 mentions in earlier books of Rhaenys, Elia's daughter. There are also many scattered mentions referring to each of these characters as "little" (with only an indirect connection to the word princess somewhere in the paragraph). The obvious correlation is that there is something Dornish about little princesses.

I can't help but connect this to how "Willem Darry" addresses Dany using the same exact language, twice in her POVs. This of course dovetails conveniently with the lemongate theory that Dany's early life was spent at a house with a red door, most likely in Dorne. This also follows the larger pattern of lemongate evidence being subtle in the first 3 books, with much more direct "hit you over the head with it" evidence in the latest 2 published books. I am looking forward to seeing where out author goes with this pattern (or whether this is a pattern at all) in the the next book.

I must note that there is one other mention of the phrase in our story (after all those mentioned above), where Jon thinks it about Shireen late in ADwD. There is nothing Dornish about Shireen, but maybe there is something Dornish about Jon? More on this later.

The Evidence

This phrase is first introduced to us by Dany in her first POV, connecting the phrase to her:

She remembered Ser Willem dimly, a great grey bear of a man, half-blind, roaring and bellowing orders from his sickbed. The servants had lived in terror of him, but he had always been kind to Dany. He called her "Little Princess" and sometimes "My Lady," and his hands were soft as old leather.

Eddard (A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII) connects it to the children of Rheagar and the Dornish princess, Elia Martell, late in that same book:

Yet last night he had dreamt of Rhaegar's children. Lord Tywin had laid the bodies beneath the Iron Throne, wrapped in the crimson cloaks of his house guard. That was clever of him; the blood did not show so badly against the red cloth. The little princess had been barefoot, still dressed in her bed gown, and the boy … the boy … - A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII

So even at the beginning of that book GRRM had planted a seed, a lemon seed if you will. It begins to sprout in A Clash of Kings in the house of the undying where Dany (Daenerys IV) is reminded of Darry:

No sooner had she thought it than old Ser Willem came into the room, leaning heavily on his stick. "Little princess, there you are," he said in his gruff kind voice. "Come," he said, "come to me, my lady, you're home now, you're safe now."

In her next POV chapter, Dany makes a direct reference to Rhaenys:

"I remember," Dany said sadly. "They murdered Rhaegar's daughter as well, the little princess. Rhaenys, she was named, like Aegon's sister. There was no Visenya, but he said the dragon has three heads. What is the song of ice and fire?"

(Jorah) "It's no song I've ever heard."

At this point, our author has tied both Targaryen princesses to the term Little Princess.  Up until the end of ASoS, there would be no reason to question this, four mentions about two princesses.  Not enough for much of a pattern, but if there is a pattern, it would seem to be about Targaryens, which is the link between the two.

We must also note that there are two other princesses in the story at this time, Myrcella and Shireen (bfore Arianne is introduced as a character).  At this point, neither is mentioned as a "little Princess" even though the phrase fits them exactly.  Is there a reason for this? Or is it just random chance?

The Dornish Connection

The mentions multiply in Feast/Dance, bearing fruit in the case of Myrcella and Arianne.  Aero Hotah (certainly a parallel character for Arianne to Dany's Darry, as Arys is for Myrcella) uses it twice in the Captain of Guards chapter, both to refer to Arianne Martell:

My little princess. The captain had missed her sorely.

And:

As my prince commands." His heart was troubled. My little princess will mislike this. "What of Sarella? She is a woman grown, almost twenty."

Note: He also refers to Arianne and to Myrcella as little several times without the attached noun.

Then it comes up twice in the Soiled Knight, once by Arys Oakheart:

[...] Myrcella had taken to Dornish food as quick as she had to her Dornish prince, and from time to time Ser Arys would try a dish or two to please her. The food seared his mouth and made him gasp for wine, and burned even worse coming out than it did going in. His little princess loved it, though.

and again by Arianne:

"Backwards," she suggested. "Once you don your robes, no one will see the tear. Perhaps your little princess will sew it up for you. Or shall I send a new one to the Water Gardens?"

It's worth noting that Ser Arys's quote seems to denote Myrcella, but could possibly refer to Arianne. In the chapter, Elia's daughter Rhaenys is also discussed as "little", as well as Myrcella. It's also worth noting that Cersei refers to Rhaenys as little as well.

Then in the Queenmaker, Arianne refers to Mycella:

Her Dornishmen covered their faces as she did, and Spotted Sylva helped veil the little princess from the sun, but Ser Arys stayed stubborn. Before long the sweat was running down his face, and his cheeks had taken on a rosy blush. ...

And Areo refers to Arianne at chapter's end:

Areo Hotah took it from the man and frowned at it. "The prince said I must bring you back to Sunspear," he announced. His cheeks and brow were freckled with the blood of Arys Oakheart. "I am sorry, little princess."

Later, in "The Princess In The Tower" (A Feast for Crows) he refers to her the same way, before her imprisonment:

"What you meant does not matter, little princess," Areo Hotah said. "Only what you did." His countenance was stony. "I am sorry. It is for my prince to command, for Hotah to obey."

and after:

Then came a day when a rough hand woke her, shaking her by the shoulder. "Little princess," said a voice she'd known from childhood. "Up and dress. The prince has called for you." Areo Hotah stood over her, her old friend and protector. He was talking to her. Arianne smiled sleepily. It was good to see that seamed, scarred face, and hear his gruff, deep voice and thick Norvoshi accent. "What did you do with Cedra?"

Later Arianne uses it to refer to Myrcella again:

"No," Arianne said. "Say that he died defending his little princess. Tell Ser Balon that Darkstar tried to kill her and Ser Arys stepped between them and saved her life." That was how the white knights of the Kingsguard were supposed to die, giving up their own lives for those that they had sworn to protect. [...]

Finally, Areo Hotah refers to Arianne 4 times in this way in The Watcher, 1):

Tyene declined Ricasso's toast with a murmur and Lady Nym with a flick of a hand. Obara let them fill her cup to the brim, then upended it to spill the red wine on the floor. When a serving girl knelt to wipe up the spilled wine, Obara left the hall. After a moment Princess Arianne excused herself and went after her. Obara would never turn her rage on the little princess, Hotah knew. They are cousins, and she loves her well.

2):

Princess Arianne returned in time for the stuffed peppers. My little princess, Hotah thought, but Arianne was a woman now. The scarlet silks she wore left no doubt of that. Of late she had changed in other ways as well. Her plot to crown Myrcella had been betrayed and smashed, her white knight had perished bloodily at Hotah's hand, and she herself had been confined to the Spear Tower, condemned to solitude and silence. [...]

3):

"Darkstar did it," his little princess said. "He tried to kill Princess Myrcella too. As she will tell Ser Balon."

4:)

The little princess smiled. "Three Oberyns, with teats."

Note how the author also weaves Myrcella into the paragraph maintaining the connection between the two of them as little princesses.  Note that every mention of Myrcella this way was in Dorne.  Same for Arianne, who is Dornish. Same for Rhaenys who is half-Dornish through her mother, and has some small bit of Dornish blood (~6%) via Dyanna Dayne.

For the three of them, there is something very Dornish about the phrase little Princess.  Dany seemingly would not fit, and Shireen is not yet mentioned as a Little Princess.  Note that both young ladies would have that same small bit of the blood of Dyanna Dayne in their blood.  I think it would be a bit of a copout to try to use this as a Dornish connection. I think there is more. For Dany, she spent a few of her earliest years in Dorne, I think. As for Shireen...

An Exception?

Finally, in A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI, Jon thinks about Shireen as a little Princess, too.

The bells on his hat rang. "Away, away," the fool sang. "Come with me beneath the sea, away, away, away." He took the little princess by one hand and drew her from the room, skipping.

The only thing Dornish about Shireen is that same small bit of Dyanna Dayne in her blood.  This would be a relatively weak Dornish connection, and I don't buy that this makes it fit the pattern I see with Myrcella, Arianne and Rhaenys.

Perhaps this means that the pattern I see is meaningless, that all the other mentions discussed before are just coincidental, and my analysis and conclusions are debunked.  Maybe, except it's also possible that this is the coincidence / exception that proves the rule. You see, I can't help wonder if this is not just another clue in and of itself.  Could it be a clue about Jon having Dornish heritage, not Shireen?  With R+L=J, he would also have that tiny bit of Dornish blood, but I'd like a stronger connection. Once upon a time I wondered if his mother was Ashara Dayne, but I doubt that now, given GRRM's comments on the identity of his mother (Lyanna).  However, there is still a terrific connection to Dorne for Jon.  Jon, if born at the Tower of Joy, to Lyanna is wholly Dornish in that he was born there!

So, when Jon calls Shireen Baratheon a little princess, there is something very Dornish about that, especially because she was never called that before she met him.  He may even be the first "Dornishman" that she'd encountered in the series.

Conclusion

So, in the early volumes, the author tied Dany and half-Dornish Rhaenys to the the phrase "Little Princess." Then in ADwD and AFfC, he gives overwhelming evidence that there is a Dornish connection to the phrase "Little Princess" with Arianne and Myrcella being called such numerous times.  The possible exception, when Jon uses the phrase in those volumes, is probably not an exception at all, because Jon was born in Dorne.

I think the implication of this is that when "Willem Darry" called her this in the the early volumes, he and Dany were in Dorne.  My conclusion is that this is one more small piece of evidence that Dany started life in a house with a red door in Dorne as suggested in the popular theory known as lemongate.

[corbon]

So... little princesses are described as ... little princesses?

And this happens more in Dorne than anywhere else?

News at 11!

You realise that Dorne has princesses, right? And that the only other princesses in Westeros are the king's daughters - Targaryens or Baratheons.

When Ned uses the term in KL, and Patchface uses the term at the wall, its a generic term, not a secret dornish dogwhistle.

[J. Stargaryen]

1 hour ago, corbon said:

So... little princesses are described as ... little princesses?

And this happens more in Dorne than anywhere else?

News at 11!

You realise that Dorne has princesses, right? And that the only other princesses in Westeros are the king's daughters - Targaryens or Baratheons.

When Ned uses the term in KL, and Patchface uses the term at the wall, its a generic term, not a secret dornish dogwhistle.

This!

@The Green Bard

If anything, I might wonder if there was a common thread between the three younger little princesses and Arianne. Well, Rhaenys was murdered; Myrcella and Shireen are expected to die pretty soon as well. So, if anything, I might think that little princess is an ill omen for Arianne.

But honestly, I think @corbon has the right of it. There is nothing remarkable about calling a little princess little princess.

[Ygrain]

"Little princess" is not a specific term, it is not stylistically charged in any way. All the examples are, or were, little girls, all of them royal. It is a natural endearing term in these situations. To establish a connection, you would need something more specific, like "little wing" for Liara in Mass Effect, or out of place, like calling someone "little princess" even though she is not a princess. 

[Springwatch]

No firm conclusions, I agree, but there might be something interesting here. There's a general expectation that grrm uses repetition to highlight things of significance. There's also a bit of a theme going on roles and identity (e.g. lord's face, skinchanging, some chapter titles). So it's worth pausing a moment on the princesses, even with low expectations of a result.

I kind of agree with @J. Stargaryen  that Arianne is probably the odd one out. Shireen is the little princess in the North, which has been paralleled with Dorne before - hostile climate, low population, fierce independence etc. I don't think a connection with Dorne essential though.

Shireen, Myrcella, young Dany, and Rhaenys are all under mortal threat of some kind (king's blood, prophecy, usurper's knives, Tywin). Arianne is not.

Shireen, Myrcella and young Dany all have guardian protectors who they love and who love them back (faithful Patchface, faithful white knight, faithful Old Bear). Rhaenys is unprotected and dies. Arianne shares a strong affection with Hotah, but his duty to Doran keeps them apart.

Maybe then Doran is the one who's got to die, to bring Arianne's story back into line.

[Seams]

You may have uncovered the clue that strengthens the parallel between the Ser Arys / Myrcella relationship and the Areo Hotah / Arianne relationship. Each of the men is a king's guard and has responsibility for a princess he considers to be little; he defines the princess as a child. Jon's reference to Shireen as a little princess could fit this archetype: he feels kind and paternal toward a small child. (GRRM could also be teasing us with a parallel about Jon's murdered sister, Rhaenys, and how Jon would have abhorred her death.)

Yet Ser Arys crosses over and treats Areo's "little princess" as a woman: a sexually mature and attractive bed partner who makes it worthwhile to forego celibacy. Little princesses grow up and exercise free will and enjoy robust sex with partners of their choosing. By pairing Arys and Areo, he can show us that transition and character arc without having Areo or Arys directly break his oath toward his own respective little princess.

GRRM likes to play with history that becomes muddled as it is handed down or as it passes through the lens of biased observers. Maybe we, as readers, are supposed to project the Myrcella and Arianne stories into the future and guess how the details will be muddled; how two little princesses might be confused into one princess with one guardian warrior.

An examination of the Princess Rhaenyra ("Realm's Delight") and Criston Cole story might reveal more clues about this pattern.

My first instinct is that the "little princess" term is not so much unique to Dorne (although it may be more than coincidence that each character seems to have a link to that region) but is more associated with the ASOIAF theme of refraining from killing children, established when Ned resigns over Robert's plan to kill Dany. As @Springwatch points out, each of these princesses is under a mortal threat of some kind.

Fwiw, there is a popular Shirley Temple movie based on a book by Frances Hodgson Burnett called A Little Princess. GRRM has been known to include in the series allusions to popular culture so it's possible there is a subtle nod in the direction of this book. In a nutshell (iirc), the little girl (Sara Crewe) is left at a boarding school where her doting father covers all of her expenses in lavish style while he goes off to war. News comes back to the school that the father has been killed in battle. Sara's financial situation is reversed and she is put to work as a chamber maid and given a humble bed in the attic of the school. The servant of a wealthy next-door neighbor climbs through a window one night and fills the barren attic room with beautiful bedding, clothes, food and coal to spark warmth in the fireplace. Sara is accused of stealing the gifts and she runs away, hiding in a military hospital where she comes across both Queen Victoria and her father, who had not been killed in battle but who was suffering from a head injury and could not be identified.

The potential parallels I see for ASOIAF are the girl searching for her father, the "guard" who takes care of the child, and Sara's attic room as a parallel to Arianne's interlude locked in a tower room. GRRM's little princesses are not necessarily searching for their fathers (although little Rhaenys was found hiding under Rhaegar's bed) but, in each case, there is something that comes between the girl and her father: Stannis is not warm and paternal; Aerys is dead; Doran has a big secret that has alienated Arianne and caused her to feel disinherited; Myrcella's real father has not been acknowledged openly. Patchface would be the equivalent of the guard for Shireen.

But this is mostly a tangent, if it bears scrutiny at all. The Rhaenyra parallel would be more relevant.

Oh, one more interesting possible parallel. I suspect that references to "sand" are allusions to Dorne so this little scene may be part of the pattern of princesses in mortal peril, even though the word "little" is not used:

"You need to shake out the sand. There's still spots of rust. See?" She pointed. "You'd best do it again."

"You do it." Elmar could be friendly when he needed help, but afterward he would always remember that he was a squire and she was only a serving girl. He liked to boast how he was the son of the Lord of the Crossing, not a nephew or a bastard or a grandson but a trueborn son, and on account of that he was going to marry a princess.

Arya didn't care about his precious princess, and didn't like him giving her commands. "I have to bring m'lord water for his basin. He's in his bedchamber being leeched. Not the regular black leeches but the big pale ones."

...

"What's wrong?" Arya asked him when she saw the tears shining on his cheeks.

"My princess," he sobbed. "We've been dishonored, Aenys says. There was a bird from the Twins. My lord father says I'll need to marry someone else, or be a septon."

A stupid princess, she thought, that's nothing to cry over. "My brothers might be dead," she confided.

Elmar gave her a scornful look. "No one cares about a serving girl's brothers."

It was hard not to hit him when he said that. "I hope your princess dies," she said, and ran off before he could grab her.

(ACoK, Arya X)

[The Green Bard]

9 hours ago, Ygrain said:

All the examples are, or were, little girls, all of them royal.

Arianne is no little girl. 

[Ygrain]

6 minutes ago, The Green Bard said:

Arianne is no little girl. 

Which is why I wrote "were". And she is called "little princess" by someone who knew her as a little princess.

[The Green Bard]

16 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

But honestly, I think @corbon has the right of it. There is nothing remarkable about calling a little princess little princess.

Interesting.  When @corbon places such importance on the specifics of Dany's memories not being supportive to lemongate. This is one of the few things that is exactly the same in both of her memories of the house with the red door, and it is very Dornish.    Y'all just dismiss it if you want, but Darry is a protector to Dany, Arys a protector to Mycella, and Areo to Arianne.  It is used as a term of endearment, similar to Dany. This is very much parallel and until there are further exceptions, I wouldn't discount the tie to Dany. 

Shireen was never described this way in ACoK or ASoS, not by Davos, or by Cressen, or anyone else.  Nor Myrcella before Dorne.  

[The Green Bard]

5 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Shireen, Myrcella and young Dany all have guardian protectors who they love and who love them back

I think that it is used as a term of endearment is why it caught my eye.  Very much parallel with Arys and Darry...  also Areo, all knightly protectors.  Patchface is the exception, but he doesn't use it.  The knightly protector, Jon, thinks it.  

[The Green Bard]

12 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Which is why I wrote "were". And she is called "little princess" by someone who knew her as a little princess.

OK. That's every princess.  What was the point again? 

[The Green Bard]

4 hours ago, Seams said:

You may have uncovered the clue that strengthens the parallel between the Ser Arys / Myrcella relationship and the Areo Hotah / Arianne relationship.

Certainly it is parallel, and Dany and Darry are verrymuch in the exact same mold, especially in how it is used as an endearing term, not just descriptive, which is why I tie it to the Dornish culture, but certainly I could just be seeing shadows.  

[sweetsunray]

Agreeing with others here: little princesses being referred to as little princesses is not surprising, especially by people who are empathic and care about the wellbeing of that said princess. 

Now Arianne may be an adult for years already, but she is of small stature and behaves more like a teenager than an actual adult. And we have this reference in Hotah's POV, who saw her grow up from when she was a baby. It's not uncommon for people to keep seeing grown adult proteges as "little xyz", especially for a protege that is loved. I'm 46 and 5ft 11 but people close to me, tend to use a form of my name that is used for children instead. Subconsciously referring to grown ups with names or references usually meant for a child is common when people feel affection for that adult.

And I think that is what we see with Arianne, and the actual princesses who are still children.

What is interesting is to assess the "princesses" in the book that aren't referred to as "little princess".

• Myrcella isn't referred to this as such in the POVs prior to aFfC: Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, Cersei (in thought or argument). The first two make sense, as these are POVs of children and therefore peers. The latter two are of interest: neither the mother, nor the uncle who tends to have some decency and ability for affection think of Myrcella in the endearing "little princess" way. Basically, I think that's because Myrcella doesn't mean much emotionally to either two characters, except that she's a means to an end. Tyrion uses her to find out who of the council he cannot trust, and later thinks of her as a means to war Cersei. And Cersei is a narcissist, and wishes to use her travels to get the little prince of Dorne killed. Myrcella is an afterthought and a "tool" (at best) to Cersei and Tyrion. Hence, the fact that in Dorne she is referred to as the "little princess" implies that the Martells and their associates care more for Myrcella as a person than her own family does. And here you have your Dornish connection - they don't aim to harm little girls in Dorne, the water gardens. And though Arianne does attempt to try and use Myrcella for political reasons, but also refers to her as "little princess" in the process, which imo is GRRM trying to portray Arianne as still caring for Myrcella. 
• Arya is referred to as princess at times once Robb is declared KitN, but not as "little princess", despite the fact that she's a child and of small stature even amongst other children. The green bearded Tyroshi of the BwB refers to Arya in terms of "little", like he considers her to be cute. And Arya overhears the mention of a princess, implying her, but never realizes it, but it's never combined with "little". I think this is mostly because Arya responds fiercely and demands not to be called "little". From this I interprete the term "little princess" is not just an endearment term, but used as in "helpless", which Arya is not.
• Sansa is in fact a princess and a minor still. Like Arya she fails to get that Robb being king, actually makes her a princess, but then most of her arc is set in a faction that does not recognize her brother to be a king, and therefore would never address her with princess or think of her in that way. We do have the "little bird" reference by Sandor.
• Val the "wildling princess". Even if technically she is not a princess in the eyes of the Free Folk, most southerners do refer to her as princess. Like Arya she does not seem helpless, even if she shares the "princess in a tower" imagery. Jon for sure is attracted to her. Since he's neither a pedophile and is attracted to women who can fend for themselves, it's unlikely that he'd refer to her as "little xyz".

Conclusion:

I don't see a Dornish connection, other than that Dorne doesn't harm "little girls". I do see a term of endearment that has a symbolical connection to "helplesness".

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, The Green Bard said:

OK. That's every princess.  What was the point again? 

That you don't have one because it is natural that a princess can be called "little" as a sign of affection, even if she is already an adult.

[The Green Bard]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Conclusion:

I don't see a Dornish connection, other than that Dorne doesn't harm "little girls". I do see a term of endearment that has a symbolical connection to "helplesness".

Fair enough, but you did say there was a Dornish connection in the middle of your post, where you talked about how a little girl would be treated better there.  I can't help but notice that this is exactly how Dany feels in those 2 memories, and which contrasts to how Viserys treated her (meaning that he may not have been there).

FWIW, my support of Lemongate in no way had any bearing on the truth of R+L=J and A+R=D.  I can't help but wonder if this argument might be different if the original discussion of such wasn't hopelessly tied to fDany and its questioning of parentage for Dan and Jon by extension.  In my view of the world, folks chose sides on the specific Lemongate arguments conditionally to those theories and not logically. 

This connection I have found, and it is a numerical connection, regardless of all the other ideas in this thread, is only convincing as a part of the consistent narrative in the text that the idea of Citrus growing in northern climates is laughable.  This is only a further (small) connection to that place with that red door being potentially Dornish.

[corbon]

2 hours ago, The Green Bard said:

Interesting.  When @corbon places such importance on the specifics of Dany's memories not being supportive to lemongate. 

I don't. 
I just hate lies. And lemongate uses, or tried to use, many lies as its support. Take away the lies, no problem.

2 hours ago, The Green Bard said:

This is one of the few things that is exactly the same in both of her memories of the house with the red door, and it is very Dornish. 

Err, no, its not 'very Dornish'. It seems universal. 
Its associated more in/with Dorne because thats where the princesses are, for the most part.

2 hours ago, The Green Bard said:

  Y'all just dismiss it if you want, but Darry is a protector to Dany, Arys a protector to Mycella, and Areo to Arianne.  It is used as a term of endearment, similar to Dany. This is very much parallel and until there are further exceptions, I wouldn't discount the tie to Dany. 

Absolutely. Protectors and their little princesses. Crownlands/Targaryen, Reach/Baratheon and Dorne.
Plus Ned talking about Rhaenys. North/Targaryen. Not sure how that fits.
And Patchface, about Shireen. Stormland. Not sure how that fits either.

2 hours ago, The Green Bard said:

Shireen was never described this way in ACoK or ASoS, not by Davos, or by Cressen, or anyone else.  Nor Myrcella before Dorne.  

Its a term of affection. Shireen doesn't have affection coming her way except for from Davos, who is too class conscious due to his origins to show such familiarity. Cressen pitied her and so was kind, but he didn't have affection for her.

Myrcella? Sadly Myrcella gets affection from no one except Tyrion. My guess is that people are mostly too scared of her mother to be genuinely affectionate to Myrcella.
Tyrion calls her 'little one', but I'm not at all surprised he doesn't call her 'little princess'. His style at that stage is more irreverent.

[Darth Sidious]

22 hours ago, corbon said:

So... little princesses are described as ... little princesses?

And this happens more in Dorne than anywhere else?

News at 11!

You realise that Dorne has princesses, right? And that the only other princesses in Westeros are the king's daughters - Targaryens or Baratheons.

When Ned uses the term in KL, and Patchface uses the term at the wall, its a generic term, not a secret dornish dogwhistle.

I believe it is only a term of endearment as well as affection. 

I still enjoy reading theories and encourage people who have something they want to share to do so.  

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, The Green Bard said:

Fair enough, but you did say there was a Dornish connection in the middle of your post, where you talked about how a little girl would be treated better there. 

Which does not serve so much to make some connection between Dany and Dorne, but to emphasize that Dornish (and certain other regions) have regard for the lives of children, no matter what their parent did, nor kill them to get the Iron Throne. In fact, that attitude in some ways goes against what Dany "does", even unwittingly or unintentionally, she has sacrificed children.

She agreed to a magic ritual that cost her unborn son's life, and intuitively in return for the dragon eggs. She did not stop the Dothraki from killing, enslaving and selling little boys to be catamite slaves for pedophiles, though she did try to save the girls. We don't know yet what she'll stand for in the end, but there have been occassions that "we don't hurt little children" didn't apply to Dany's mind and she contemplated it as the cost of war for the IT.

Arianne has been walking that line too when she kidnapped Myrcella and intended to proclaim her queen of the IT. In that sense Arianne and Dany are each other's parallel - how much are they willing to go when it comes to the cost of war. Both had a guard who refers to them as little princess (Areo and Darry). I do think Arianne will get tested some more on this account, but eventually will ultimately choose "no child should be sacrificed for it", since she represents Nymeria's people, while I fear Dany may end up believing it's a necessary cost, as we all know Mel and Selyse believe a certain little princess will serve as well.

So, the "connection" is imo a thematic issue, rather than some secret code to show Dany spent 5 years in Dorne.

[The Green Bard]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

but to emphasize that Dornish (and certain other regions) have regard for the lives of children, no matter what their parent did, nor kill them to get the Iron Throne.

Hmm, given the presence of the Iron bank and the house of Black and White, I can't associate Braavos with being one of these "regions".  Though, I suppose that may be a deceiving thought if they did in fact witness the pact with Orberyn.  Witnessing a covenant, though is something very much associated "bankers," though, so maybe they are just a society that thinks in cold calculation instead of making decisions using feelings, which I am associating with Dorne. Dany was happiest then in that house with the red door.  I can't associate that emotion with the presence of Viserys nor the city of Braavos.  I also cannot shake the idea that this means, like Bran and Rickon, that Dany and Viserys were separated to protect the heirs.  Certainly they had the numbers to do so, with Darry and the "four loyal men".   

[The Green Bard]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

even unwittingly or unintentionally, she has sacrificed children.

She agreed to a magic ritual that cost her unborn son's life, and intuitively in return for the dragon eggs.

You and I will not agree on this. I certainly recall your analysis of MMD, and I am sympathetic to her character as well, but MMD implies that Dany willingly did this. Dany denies it.  Sure she agreed to a magical ritual, but never to sacrificing children.  That is collateral damage / unintended consequences, or specifically intended damage if you take MMD at her word.  Certainly it is not acknowledged by Dany.

Have you watched my vids on Dany in AGoT?  The third and 4th deal with this incident to some extent.