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US Politics: The Roll Call Heard Across America


Fragile Bird

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19 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, your opinion is not shared by commentators. Most consider it one of the best he has ever given.

So we thought too.

Admired their way of closing it out -- and that slow build to real fireworks.  The cars, the cars -- that worked so well.  It also felt and looked Real.

As murderer in chief watched tonight -- I could already see how he will be backed by guns, Mt. Rushmore, West Point, etc. -- because the point of those events was for his con.  And I do mean CON.

 

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22 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, your opinion is not shared by commentators. Most consider it one of the best he has ever given.

He did get better after a while, even looked into the camera, and the speech itself was good. No gaffes either, that I noticed.

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3 hours ago, ants said:

Didn't Biden campaign during the primaries on a public option?  It is his position on his website, but it doesn't say when it became his policy.  

https://joebiden.com/healthcare/#

Yep, some more googling, Vox article from June last year on Biden's public option plan:

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/16/20694598/joe-biden-health-care-plan-public-option

I'm more concerned with single payer, not at a half assed tweaking of Obamacare or a public option that won't be able to compete with the insurance juggernauts. Biden is emphatic in his opposition to single payer. 

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37 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

public option that won't be able to compete with the insurance juggernauts.

This seems an odd thing to say.  The public option should not only help enormously in getting the people that were left behind by the ACA insured, but demonstrate what research has borne out for decades - public health insurance is more efficient and cheaper than private health insurance.  I don't know why any leftist would refute that.

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The public option will be a place for the most in need of it, which is a good thing. But all the high risk people on it will give it the appearance of failing when insurance companies move to keep only low risk patients on their books. It's a win win for them. They make more money by having the dish out less for claims and the government option looks like it's imploding.

I fear it would be used as "evidence" for no single payer and set that movement back, perhaps decades.

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56 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

The public option will be a place for the most in need of it, which is a good thing. But all the high risk people on it will give it the appearance of failing when insurance companies move to keep only low risk patients on their books. It's a win win for them. They make more money by having the dish out less for claims and the government option looks like it's imploding.

I fear it would be used as "evidence" for no single payer and set that movement back, perhaps decades.

Well, then it is you and Joe Lieberman, fighting to stop the public option from happening.

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1 hour ago, Simon Steele said:

But all the high risk people on it will give it the appearance of failing when insurance companies move to keep only low risk patients on their books. It's a win win for them. They make more money by having the dish out less for claims and the government option looks like it's imploding.

I fear it would be used as "evidence" for no single payer and set that movement back, perhaps decades.

Ah, this isn't true.  People said the same thing about Medicare and the ACA when they were first implemented.  Within a decade both became popular, the former essentially untouchable by now.  Government-run insurance works better, is more efficient and less costly.  That's the best argument for single payer, right?  I get being cynical.  But this seems cynical in a basic tenet I think we both share - that nationalized healthcare isn't only a moral imperative, but is objectively superior to private industry when it comes to good policy.

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4 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

I'm more concerned with single payer, not at a half assed tweaking of Obamacare or a public option that won't be able to compete with the insurance juggernauts. Biden is emphatic in his opposition to single payer. 

Funny how often you write things which are incorrect that reflect badly on Biden.  (Biden has been supporting public option for much more than a few months, he isn't arguing for tweaking obamacare, and saying that he's selling out progressive goals on healthcare is ridiculous.  The public option will be the most progressive healthcare plan put up by any candidate in decades).  

M4A is a poison pill which would probably hand Trump the election.  You want single payer, you should push for a public option.  Anything else will be DOA.  

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@Simon Steele I don’t agree that only high risk people would gravitate to the public option. One of the most widely accepted bullshit things about the USA is that our health insurance is tied to employment. If a public option helps to sever that link, I actually think you’d see a lot of people - young people, creative people, entrepreneurs, etc go for the government option. I really think our current insurance system stifles innovation and risk-taking. Often wonder how many good small business ideas never get off the ground because the person with the idea needs their employer based healthcare.

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1 minute ago, S John said:

@Simon Steele I don’t agree that only high risk people would gravitate to the public option. One of the most widely accepted bullshit things about the USA is that our health insurance is tied to employment. If a public option helps to sever that link, I actually think you’d see a lot of people - young people, creative people, entrepreneurs, etc go for the government option. I really think our current insurance system stifles innovation and risk-taking. Often wonder how many good small business ideas never get off the ground because the person with the idea needs their employer based healthcare.

I would absolutely LOVE an option to replace my terrible employer insurance.  I pay $8k before it even starts to kick in, then they pay 80% until I pay another $8k.  And this year with a baby with severe allergies, awful skin, and now possibly a growth disorder - with another on the way - I'm easily going to be paying $15-20k out of pocket this year for healthcare, and I won't even see the doctor once (fingers crossed).

Also,  this is working for a Fortune 50 company that is making record profits and self-insures so they make even more profit administering their own insurance.

I'll take anything that might give me an option to this racket.

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4 hours ago, ants said:

M4A is a poison pill which would probably hand Trump the election.  You want single payer, you should push for a public option.  Anything else will be DOA.  

This is the problem with those on the left that want everything right now. M4A is a nice end goal many years from now, but if you're going to stomp your feet and demand it right now, not only will you not get it, you'll set it back many more years. This is why you build on past achievements. 

I wonder if when Simon plays Madden, he just runs a Hail Mary on every play......

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I believe that M4A is ultimately the right, just, and most effective delivery of healthcare. I shudder at the thought of reorganizing the entire health insurance and healthcare industry - a huge part of the economy - not only in one fell swoop but also (likely) still while in a recession and the (hopefully) waning pandemic. It is the height of folly - especially after the ACA rollout and fight over the last 10 years.

The public option is the easiest way to build and scale appropriately. The end goal is dramatic change and full coverage with actual access to care for all - the way to get there is a series of steps. A public option, for all residents, is the first step. It also needs to be created on such a way with accountability and a strong enough structure to inoculate it from GOP malfeasance and mismanagement.

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It was a good Biden speech and he delivered it well. Importantly, thanks to the bizarre Trump campaign decision to try framing Biden as senile, he so easily exceeded expectations that he may get a bigger bounce than usual from a convention. 

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Doing my morning watch of CNBC - they too agree it was a good speech, and that it presented Biden in a huge contrast to Trump. It presented Biden as likable, the whole convention showed Biden as likable. As opposed to Trump, who everyone knows by now is an asshole. Even his supporters know he's an asshole.

Predictions are that the GOP convention will be presenting Trump as a tough strongman. And that it will be nasty.

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1 hour ago, aceluby said:

I would absolutely LOVE an option to replace my terrible employer insurance.  I pay $8k before it even starts to kick in, then they pay 80% until I pay another $8k.  And this year with a baby with severe allergies, awful skin, and now possibly a growth disorder - with another on the way - I'm easily going to be paying $15-20k out of pocket this year for healthcare, and I won't even see the doctor once (fingers crossed).

Also,  this is working for a Fortune 50 company that is making record profits and self-insures so they make even more profit administering their own insurance.

I'll take anything that might give me an option to this racket.

This is fucking barbaric. 

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40 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Doing my morning watch of CNBC - they too agree it was a good speech, and that it presented Biden in a huge contrast to Trump. It presented Biden as likable, the whole convention showed Biden as likable. As opposed to Trump, who everyone knows by now is an asshole. Even his supporters know he's an asshole.

Predictions are that the GOP convention will be presenting Trump as a tough strongman. And that it will be nasty.

More than just likable, it showed how incredibly kind and caring he is, which is a giant contrast from Trump’s mean spiritedness. Because you barefooted housewives really love the latter. :P

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51 minutes ago, Fez said:

thanks to the bizarre Trump campaign decision to try framing Biden as senile, he so easily exceeded expectations that he may get a bigger bounce than usual from a convention. 

Yeah they played the expectations game entirely ass-backwards.  Biden should cut the Trump camp a check, because they were very effective Biden operatives in that regard.

I am very interested to see if there's any bounce, if only as a researcher.  With the stability in Trump's approval/disapproval, I was skeptical there'd be much of any for either party this cycle even before covid.  But as has been said there were a lot of pluses to the virtual con.  Good amount of hiccups, too, but the most glaring one was having 17 "up and coming" stars share a keynote speech - and that was just a ridiculously stupid idea no matter how the convention is being held.

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55 minutes ago, Fez said:

It was a good Biden speech and he delivered it well. Importantly, thanks to the bizarre Trump campaign decision to try framing Biden as senile, he so easily exceeded expectations that he may get a bigger bounce than usual from a convention. 

Don Jr's smug, chinless smile collapsed on itself when Laura Ingraham conceded that Biden had done a decent job with his speech.

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