Character Study: Robert Baratheon and Son Goku

[Lee-Sensei]

Just now, Hugorfonics said:

He was no good either, anxiously giving the crown to Stannis the tyrant

When?

The other two turned out fine

Robert ordered the death of Lady.

Robert decreed Joffrey to be innocent, thusly Sandor concluded Mycha was guilty and therefore a dead child walking

Because he puts his fingers in his ears and screams "to hell with her (Cat) reasons" in his dignified kingly tantrum

The king says present your daughters, end of discussion. Renly says it happened all the time. Eventually its a numbers game, dudes a rapist

If he didnt want to become king he wouldnt have fucking sat down.

.

It is not a seat where a man can rest at ease. Ofttimes I wonder why my brothers wanted it so desperately."

.

1) Ned was following the law and he’s one of the best people in the series from a moral standpoint. What do you think he should have done?

2) When he he him for gutting a pregnant cat and when he tried talking to him. Cersei mentions it to Tywin.

3) He didn’t. That was Cersei.

4) Can you provide the quote of Ned telling Robert that Tyrion armed an assassin with the dagger and sent him after Bran? Did he even know that an assassin went after Bran?

5) So you couldn’t provide a single example of him beating or raping a woman outside of a Cersei (maybe)? Renly doesn’t say that Robert raped women. He said that Robert was promiscuous and Renly is gay, so he has no interest in women.

6) Nope. He sat down, because people crowned him. He didn’t even want to get married after the war.

[Lee-Sensei]

26 minutes ago, Orm said:

Would you say they track similarities an awful lot?

ASOIAF is a dark world. But I find Bobby B to be a shonen hero if he was in an anime. ...

Probably, but asoiaf is more of a seinen. It’s pretty dark. I actually saw some memes recently comparing Robert to Guts and Rhaegar to Griffith.:P

[Hugorfonics]

6 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

1) Ned was following the law and he’s one of the best people in the series from a moral standpoint. What do you think he should have done?

2) When he he him for gutting a pregnant cat and when he tried talking to him. Cersei mentions it to Tywin.

3) He didn’t. That was Cersei.

4) Can you provide the quote of Ned telling Robert that Tyrion armed an assassin with the dagger and sent him after Bran? Did he even know that an assassin went after Bran?

5) So you couldn’t provide a single example of him beating or raping a woman outside of a Cersei (maybe)? Renly doesn’t say that Robert raped women. He said that Robert was promiscuous and Renly is gay, so he has no interest in women.

6) Nope. He sat down, because people crowned him. He didn’t even want to get married after the war.

1. Hes a rat bastard.

He should have sat down, but he didnt want to

2. Lol beating your kid half to death is not patenting, at least not good parenting.

Cersei says Robert said kings should be fierce or some nonsense. I think she was lying though and Joff learned that from her

3.

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"We have a wolf," Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph.

It took them all a moment to comprehend her words, but when they did, the king shrugged irritably. "As you will. Have Ser Ilyn see to it."

.

He did

4. No because Robert threw a tantrum when Ned tried telling him

6. So your just ignoring Stannis ofttimes wondering why Robert desperately wanted the IT

[Lee-Sensei]

28 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

1. Hes a rat bastard.

He should have sat down, but he didnt want to

2. Lol beating your kid half to death is not patenting, at least not good parenting.

Cersei says Robert said kings should be fierce or some nonsense. I think she was lying though and Joff learned that from her

3.

.

"We have a wolf," Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph.

It took them all a moment to comprehend her words, but when they did, the king shrugged irritably. "As you will. Have Ser Ilyn see to it."

.

He did

4. No because Robert threw a tantrum when Ned tried telling him

6. So your just ignoring Stannis ofttimes wondering why Robert desperately wanted the IT

1) Ned was far from a rat bastard.

2) Joffre6 wasn’t his kid and it is. Every kid in Westeros gets beatings. Ned beat Theon for jumping down the stairs and accidentally knocking over Old Nan, Arlan beat a Duncan for stealing a pie and Robert hit Joffrey for cutting open a pregnant cat and ripping out its babies. Which of these three misdeeds is abnormal.

3) I also believe that Cersei told him that, but that’s not what I was referring to. Cersei said that Robert wanted to beat him and that he tried to talk with him to Tywin. Tywin goes on to say that Robert was right and the boy needs discipline and that he’d give him a sharp lesson. Robert also told Ned that he was unhappy with how Joffrey was turning out.

4) Nope. That’s Robert allowing a Cersei to have her way. Keep in mind that she wanted to maim Arya and he didn’t allow it.

Robert started to walk away, but the queen was not done. “And what of the direwolf?” she called after him. “What of the beast that savaged your son?”

“I’d forgotten about the damned wolf.” Ned could see Arya tense in Jory’s arms. Jory spoke up quickly. “We found no trace of the direwolf, Your Grace.” Robert did not look unhappy. “No? So be it."

The queen raised her voice. “A hundred golden dragons to the man who brings me its skin!”

“A costly pelt,” Robert grumbled. “I want no part of this, woman. You can damn well buy your furs with Lannister gold.”

5) So he didn’t tell him and he knew nothing about the assassination attempt on Bran?

6) Stannis doesn’t necessarily have the best read on his brother. Like when he thought that Robert gave him Dragonstone as a punishment, when George himself described it as Roberts careless generosity. We know from his conversations with Ned that he didn’t want the Throne, but that he was crowned because he had the best claim.

[Hugorfonics]

4 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

1) Ned was far from a rat bastard.

2) Joffre6 wasn’t his kid and it is. Every kid in Westeros gets beatings. Ned beat Theon for jumping down the stairs and accidentally knocking over Old Nan, Arlan beat a Duncan for stealing a pie and Robert hit Joffrey for cutting open a pregnant cat and ripping out its babies. Which of these three misdeeds is abnormal.

3) I also believe that Cersei told him that, but that’s not what I was referring to. Cersei said that Robert wanted to beat him and that he tried to talk with him to Tywin. Tywin goes on to say that Robert was right and the boy needs discipline and that he’d give him a sharp lesson. Robert also told Ned that he was unhappy with how Joffrey was turning out.

4) Nope. That’s Robert allowing a Cersei to have her way. Keep in mind that she wanted to maim Arya and he didn’t allow it.

Robert started to walk away, but the queen was not done. “And what of the direwolf?” she called after him. “What of the beast that savaged your son?”

“I’d forgotten about the damned wolf.” Ned could see Arya tense in Jory’s arms. Jory spoke up quickly. “We found no trace of the direwolf, Your Grace.” Robert did not look unhappy. “No? So be it."

The queen raised her voice. “A hundred golden dragons to the man who brings me its skin!”

“A costly pelt,” Robert grumbled. “I want no part of this, woman. You can damn well buy your furs with Lannister gold.”

5) So he didn’t tell him and he knew nothing about the assassination attempt on Bran?

6) Stannis doesn’t necessarily have the best read on his brother. Like when he thought that Robert gave him Dragonstone as a punishment, when George himself described it as Roberts careless generosity. We know from his conversations with Ned that he didn’t want the Throne, but that he was crowned because he had the best claim.

1. Hes no Kakarot

2. Cersei and Stannis feared for his life, that excessive beating is not normal

3. Quote?

4.  Robert says have Ser Illyn see to it. Thats the order. Lady died because Robert ordered it

5. Of course he knew

6. He often wonders on it, Robert wanted that chair desperately. And Stannis losing SE was a slight

.

"And Stannis has always felt he was cheated of Storm's End," Cersei said thoughtfully. "The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, his by rights . . . if you knew how many times he came to Robert singing that same dull song in that gloomy aggrieved tone he has. When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter."

"He took it as a slight."

"It was meant as a slight," Cersei said

4 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

We know from his conversations with Ned that he didn’t want the Throne,

We do not

[Lee-Sensei]

6 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

1. Hes no Kakarot

2. Cersei and Stannis feared for his life, that excessive beating is not normal

3. Quote?

4.  Robert says have Ser Illyn see to it. Thats the order. Lady died because Robert ordered it

5. Of course he knew

6. He often wonders on it, Robert wanted that chair desperately. And Stannis losing SE was a slight

.

"And Stannis has always felt he was cheated of Storm's End," Cersei said thoughtfully. "The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, his by rights . . . if you knew how many times he came to Robert singing that same dull song in that gloomy aggrieved tone he has. When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter."

"He took it as a slight."

"It was meant as a slight," Cersei said

We do not

1) Cersei? You mean the woman that wanted Arya maimed or dead for the fight that Joffrey started?

2) For further context, Stannis said that Joffrey should have been killed. The point of that story was that Joffrey was a monster and that he deserved to die.

3) It wasn’t a beating at all. He hit him once for gutting a pregnant cat, because it was monstrously evil. This isn’t a normal child and normal children do get beatings in Westeros.

4) “He would have beat him if I'd allowed it. I told him I'd kill him in his sleep if he ever did it again, and he never did, but sometimes he would say things...”

“It appears things needed to be said.” Lord Tywin waved twofingers at her, a brusque dismissal.

5) Nah. Robert didn’t want the dire wolf killed. Cersei wanted it and he allowed it to happen. Ned doesn’t blame Robert for that. He blames a Cersei, because she was clearly behind it.

6) Don’t just say that he knew. Provide some evidence.

7) and this is what I’m talking about when it comes to unreliable narrators. George has already addressed this. It wasn’t meant as a slight. Cersei and Stannis see it that way, because of their own personal biases. Cersei’s the kind of petty person that would do something like that and a Stannis is primed to look at everything his older brother does in a negative light.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Baratheon_Brothers/
 

8) Yes. We do.

[S. D]

6 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

1) I don’t know where we go from here. I’ll say this. What I believe is that Cersei and Robert hated each other, but a King needs heirs. So when he went to her he got drunk first. Cersei probably didn’t want to sleep with him, but by law he was allowed to “claim his rights”. To me it was probably a “lie back and think of England” situation.

I waited, so can he. I waited half my life. She had played the dutiful daughter, blushing bride, the pliant wife. She had suffered Robert’s drunken groping, Jaime’s jealousy, Stannis endlessly grinding his teeth, all the while promising herself that one day it would be her turn.

Note that she calls it “drunken groping”.

Way to ignore the other quotes.

[Wall Flower]

30 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

1) Cersei? You mean the woman that wanted Arya maimed or dead for the fight that Joffrey started?

2) For further context, Stannis said that Joffrey should have been killed. The point of that story was that Joffrey was a monster and that he deserved to die.

3) It wasn’t a beating at all. He hit him once for gutting a pregnant cat, because it was monstrously evil. This isn’t a normal child and normal children do get beatings in Westeros.

4) “He would have beat him if I'd allowed it. I told him I'd kill him in his sleep if he ever did it again, and he never did, but sometimes he would say things...”

“It appears things needed to be said.” Lord Tywin waved twofingers at her, a brusque dismissal.

5) Nah. Robert didn’t want the dire wolf killed. Cersei wanted it and he allowed it to happen. Ned doesn’t blame Robert for that. He blames a Cersei, because she was clearly behind it.

6) Don’t just say that he knew. Provide some evidence.

7) and this is what I’m talking about when it comes to unreliable narrators. George has already addressed this. It wasn’t meant as a slight. Cersei and Stannis see it that way, because of their own personal biases. Cersei’s the kind of petty person that would do something like that and a Stannis is primed to look at everything his older brother does in a negative light.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Baratheon_Brothers/
 

8) Yes. We do.

Cersei was the instigator of Lady's death but it was Robert who ordered it and the responsibility ultimately lay with him. Ned later accepts Robert's apology but in the moment, he is devastated and angry at Robert as much as at Cersei.

'Robert you cannot mean this' Ned protested.

The king was in no mood for more argument. "Enough, Ned. I will hear no more. A direwolf is a savage beast. Sooner or later it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did with my son. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it"

And then:

'All Ned could do was take her in his arms and hold her while she wept. He looked across the room at Robert. His old friend, closer than any brother. "Please, Robert. For the love you bear me. For the love you bore my sister. Please".

When that most personal of pleas fails, " Do it yourself then, Robert" he said in a voice cold and sharp as steel. "At least have the courage to do it yourself".

Robert may abrogate the responsibility to Cersei but that doesn't mean we have to.

As for the topic, I'm not familiar with Son Goku, although I know he's based on the Monkey King from Journey to the West and from one of my favourite cult TV shows 'Monkey'. I have seen suggestions that Gaston from the animated Beauty and Beast might be a good fit for Robert - huge, black-haired, hunter who likes to play the hero and decorate with antlers. Gaston's a villain though.

[Lee-Sensei]

12 minutes ago, Wall Flower said:

Cersei was the instigator of Lady's death but it was Robert who ordered it and the responsibility ultimately lay with him. Ned later accepts Robert's apology but in the moment, he is devastated and angry at Robert as much as at Cersei.

'Robert you cannot mean this' Ned protested.

The king was in no mood for more argument. "Enough, Ned. I will hear no more. A direwolf is a savage beast. Sooner or later it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did with my son. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it"

And then:

'All Ned could do was take her in his arms and hold her while she wept. He looked across the room at Robert. His old friend, closer than any brother. "Please, Robert. For the love you bear me. For the love you bore my sister. Please".

When that most personal of pleas fails, " Do it yourself then, Robert" he said in a voice cold and sharp as steel. "At least have the courage to do it yourself".

Robert may abrogate the responsibility to Cersei but that doesn't mean we have to.

As for the topic, I'm not familiar with Son Goku, although I know he's based on the Monkey King from Journey to the West and from one of my favourite cult TV shows 'Monkey'. I have seen suggestions that Gaston from the animated Beauty and Beast might be a good fit for Robert - huge, black-haired, hunter who likes to play the hero and decorate with antlers. Gaston's a villain though.

No. It doesn’t. The responsibility ultimately was Cersei’s. Roberts responsible for letting it happen when he could have stopped it and Ned’s responsible for doing the killing, but Cersei’s responsible for the death of Sansas direwolf. Which is something that she seems to recognize, since at the Blackwater she prays for Ned (obviously) along with Arya and Robert, but doesn’t pray for Cersei and prays that Joffrey dies in the battle. In AGOT she originally blamed Arya and Robert for Lady’s death, rather than Cersei and Joffrey. Perhaps you’re missing the point? Sansa trusts the wrong people. She lives in a Fairy Tale where the Queen is beautiful and gracious, the Prince is handsome and charming and she wants to be a part of that world. She constantly fights with Arya and she has a low opinion of the King (understandably). Her failure to see Cersei and Joffrey for what they were until Joffrey killed her father partially leads to Lady’s death and her refusal to put the blame where it actually lies (on a Cersei and Joffrey), leads to her running off and telling Cersei Ned Starks plans. She specifically doesn’t go to the King, because she thinks that he’d tell her father. The truth is that of the three of them, Robert is the only one that wasn’t an enemy of the Starks.

[Lee-Sensei]

44 minutes ago, S. D said:

Way to ignore the other quotes.

This sounds like a dodge. The point is that it’s questionable at best and without an impartial observer mentioning it or a documented pattern of abuse, a lot of people are going to doubt it. By the way, how accurate would you say this quote is to the relationship between Cersei and Sansa?

“I ought to have shown her to the black cells as the daughter of a traitor, but instead I made her part of mine own household. She shared my hearth and hall, played with my own children. I fed her, dressed her, tried to make her a little less ignorant about the world, and how did she repay me for my kindness? She helped murder my son. When we find the Imp, we will find the Lady Sansa too. She is not dead ... but before I am done with her, I promise you, she will be singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss.”

[S. D]

Just now, Lee-Sensei said:

This sounds like a dodge. The point is that it’s questionable at best and without An impartial observer mentioning it, a lot of people are going to doubt her. By the way, how accurate would you say this quote is to the relationship between Cersei and Sansa?

“I ought to have shown her to the black cells as the daughter of a traitor, but instead I made her part of mine own household. She shared my hearth and hall, played with my own children. I fed her, dressed her, tried to make her a little less ignorant about the world, and how did she repay me for my kindness? She helped murder my son. When we find the Imp, we will find the Lady Sansa too. She is not dead ... but before I am done with her, I promise you, she will be singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss.”

It's not a dodge, you saying he only groped her is.

"Truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he's forgotten it all by the next morning."

...the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.  

 

Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding night.  

 

Robert had been handsome enough when they first married, tall and strong and powerful, but his hair was black and heavy, thick on his chest and coarse around his sex. The wrong man came back from the Trident, the queen would sometimes think as he was plowing her. In the first few years, when he mounted her more often, she would close her eyes and pretend that he was Rhaegar. She could not pretend that he was Jaime; he was too different, too unfamiliar. Even the smell of him was wrong.  

 

For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have had her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. “You hurt me,” she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. “It was not me, my lady,” he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. “It was the wine. I drink too much wine.” To wash down his admission, he reached for his horn of ale. As he raised it to his mouth, she smashed her own horn in his face, so hard she chipped a tooth. Years later at a feast, she heard him telling a serving wench how he’d cracked the tooth in a mêlée. Well, our marriage was a mêlée, she reflected, so he did not lie.  

The rest had all been lies, though. He did remember what he did to her at night, she was convinced of that. She could see it in his eyes. He only pretended to forget; it was easier to do that than to face his shame. Deep down Robert Baratheon was a coward. 

[Lee-Sensei]

 

32 minutes ago, S. D said:

It's not a dodge, you saying he only groped her is.

"Truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he's forgotten it all by the next morning."

...the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.  

 

Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding night.  

 

Robert had been handsome enough when they first married, tall and strong and powerful, but his hair was black and heavy, thick on his chest and coarse around his sex. The wrong man came back from the Trident, the queen would sometimes think as he was plowing her. In the first few years, when he mounted her more often, she would close her eyes and pretend that he was Rhaegar. She could not pretend that he was Jaime; he was too different, too unfamiliar. Even the smell of him was wrong.  

 

For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have had her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. “You hurt me,” she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. “It was not me, my lady,” he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. “It was the wine. I drink too much wine.” To wash down his admission, he reached for his horn of ale. As he raised it to his mouth, she smashed her own horn in his face, so hard she chipped a tooth. Years later at a feast, she heard him telling a serving wench how he’d cracked the tooth in a mêlée. Well, our marriage was a mêlée, she reflected, so he did not lie.  

The rest had all been lies, though. He did remember what he did to her at night, she was convinced of that. She could see it in his eyes. He only pretended to forget; it was easier to do that than to face his shame. Deep down Robert Baratheon was a coward. 

I’m saying that it’s questionable at best. You yourself have effectively draped a distinction between what Aerys did to Rhaella and what Robert did to Cersei. Have you found other examples of him abusing women or someone else that mentions him raping Cersei yet? Also, will you answer the question about Cersei and Sansa’s relationship? How accurate is this quote?

“I ought to have shown her to the black cells as the daughter of a traitor, but instead I made her part of mine own household. She shared my hearth and hall, played with my own children. I fed her, dressed her, tried to make her a little less ignorant about the world, and how did she repay me for my kindness? She helped murder my son. When we find the Imp, we will find the Lady Sansa too. She is not dead ... but before I am done with her, I promise you, she will be singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss.”

[S. D]

10 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

 

I’m saying that it’s questionable at best. Have you found other examples of him abusing women or someone else that mentions him raping Cersei yet? Also, will you answer the question about Cersei and Sansa’s relationship? How accurate is this quote?

“I ought to have shown her to the black cells as the daughter of a traitor, but instead I made her part of mine own household. She shared my hearth and hall, played with my own children. I fed her, dressed her, tried to make her a little less ignorant about the world, and how did she repay me for my kindness? She helped murder my son. When we find the Imp, we will find the Lady Sansa too. She is not dead ... but before I am done with her, I promise you, she will be singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss.”

Cersei has no reason to be unreliable in this scene. I'll quote another person in the thread you showed me here:

Quote

I dont think there is any real reason to think that she is lying to herself. It serves no reason, she doesn't share this story to illicit sympathy nor does she use this as some kind of justification for cuckolding him. She uses Lyanna and his own infidelities for that.

And yeah we have Renly saying Robert would take lord's daughters to his bed because he took the lord telling him "What is mine is yours" literally in the quote Hugorfonics brought up.

We have an example of Robert taking a woman to his bed while drunk, a situation which very likely was not consensual. And I don't mean she said no but she didn't actually want to sleep with him but went along with it because he was the king. Just like Cersei.

[Lee-Sensei]

1 minute ago, S. D said:

Cersei has no reason to be unreliable in this scene. I'll quote another person in the thread you showed me here:

And yeah we have Renly saying Robert would take lord's daughters to his bed because he took the lord telling him "What is mine is yours" literally in the quote Hugorfonics brought up.

We have an example of Robert taking a woman to his bed while drunk, a situation which very unlikely was consensual. And I don't mean she said no but she didn't actually want to sleep with him but went along with it because he was the king. Just like Cersei.

1) Is Cersei’s statement about Sansa betraying her accurate?

2) No. We don’t and you’re reaching really hard right now. You have to realize that. Renly made a glib comment about how his brother was a lech that would want to sleep with their daughters and he doesn’t. After all, he’s gay. That doesn’t at all mean that Robert ran around the Seven Kingdoms raping highborn women. Leaving a Cersei aside, give me 1 example of Robert abusing a woman. That’s all I’m asking for.

[Orm]

8 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Leaving a Cersei aside, give me 1 example of Robert abusing a woman. That’s all I’m asking for.

It seems None of them can... It is not in the text....

And everyone will pretend the statements of Barra's mum doesn't exist....

But for when they feel like they need to diss him for being a pedo....

[Lee-Sensei]

5 minutes ago, Orm said:

It seems None of them can... It is not in the text....

And everyone will pretend the statements of Barra's mum doesn't exist....

But for when they feel like they need to diss him for being a pedo....

Robert kept visiting Mya long enough that she remembers him. That should at least 2 to 3 years and another one for the pregnancy. He brought Ned with him a lot of the time. If he’d raped her, you’d think that Ned would mention it.

[S. D]

27 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

1) Is Cersei’s statement about Sansa betraying her accurate?

2) No. We don’t and you’re reaching really hard right now. You have to realize that. Renly made a glib comment about how his brother was a lech that would want to sleep with their daughters and he doesn’t. After all, he’s gay. That doesn’t at all mean that Robert ran around the Seven Kingdoms raping highborn women. Leaving a Cersei aside, give me 1 example of Robert abusing a woman. That’s all I’m asking for.

1) Again, Cersei has no reason to lie about Robert raping her. If she was lying, her scene with Taena serves no purpose. You bringing up other instances where she is unreliable does not change anything.

2) We clearly have different ideas of abuse. Which means this part of the argument is at an impasse. Take this as a concession if you want. 

18 minutes ago, Orm said:

It seems None of them can... It is not in the text....

And everyone will pretend the statements of Barra's mum doesn't exist....

But for when they feel like they need to diss him for being a pedo....

Yeah good example. A prostitute so young Ned didn't dare to ask her age.

It's pretty simple. Robert is not violent with her because she's young and naive and awestruck by him. Unlike Cersei who disliked Robert from the time be called out Lyanna's name in bed.

[Orm]

3 minutes ago, S. D said:

Yeah good example. A prostitute so young Ned didn't dare to ask her age

This is westeros, dude.....she is a teenager by their standards...

And since she is a healthy mother, she couldn't be as young as Ned estimates...

5 minutes ago, S. D said:

It's pretty simple. Robert is not violent with her because she's young and naive and awestruck by him. Unlike Cersei who disliked Robert from the time be called out Lyanna's name in bed.

Aren't you trying to propose Bobby B is a scum rapist? Or was it the other guy?

If the only woman he ever raped is Cersei, that doesn't bother me at all...

[S. D]

6 minutes ago, Orm said:

This is westeros, dude.....she is a teenager by their standards...

And since she is a healthy mother, she couldn't be as young as Ned estimates...

Aren't you trying to propose Bobby B is a scum rapist? Or was it the other guy?

If the only woman he ever raped is Cersei, that doesn't bother me at all...

16 is the age of adulthood, and Ned calls her a child. No such thing as a 'teenager.'

[Orm]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:00 AM, S. D said:

16 is the age of adulthood, and Ned calls her a child. 

Ned doesn't know her age. He estimates it based on her looks. And I find that estimation to be a bit off since the person in question is a healthy mother...

Most my Asian/mongoloid cousins, look a lot younger then they are. Does that mean they actually are?

But I would like to say Bobby B would be a pedo if he did that in the 21st century of our world...

In his world he is guilty of nothing but Ned's very high moral ground....