UK Politics: Johnsons Hoaxy Yurt North of Hadrian's Wall

[Zorral]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/16/uk-needs-a-museum-of-colonialism-says-historian-william-dalrymple

 

[maarsen]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

You seem to think being interested in polling data and asking people displays a lack of empathy, so...
 

I have no real attachment to statues and don't really care if they are being torn down especially, if there is a decent reason to do it. 

My position is simply that most people would have very little awareness of these statues, and especially of their history. Their presence is not really contributing to racism is any real way. Remember also almost all of these people are not being glorified for their racism or racist achievements. 

The point is that once you start tearing down statues as the first thing you do, or going after British institutions, all you are doing is alienating people who might value their own sense of history and national pride, and suddenly the conversation stops being about racism but what statues are being torn down, and the whole movement turns into a joke. Worse it empowers racists to think their culture is under attack. 

It's a dumb move, it serves little purpose and it's counter productive. That is my argument.

I dunno, the focus could be on something like stop and search or poverty in certain areas, discrimination in the workplace. Unfortunately those are complicated difficult problems, and don't have overnight easy solutions. Chucking a statue into a river makes every feel better and they can post a video online about it.

If you are proud of the shitty way your country treated others in the past, I really think you need an attitude adjustment. Taking down statues that celebrate this history is a good first step.

[Derfel Cadarn]

26 minutes ago, Zorral said:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/16/uk-needs-a-museum-of-colonialism-says-historian-william-dalrymple

 

Sounds like a good use of the Houses of Parliament once it’s refurbished. 
Parliament can be relocated to a northern or central UK city in need of investment, with bespoke building and accommodation.

[Crixus]

43 minutes ago, Zorral said:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/16/uk-needs-a-museum-of-colonialism-says-historian-william-dalrymple

 

Thanks for sharing. I think anyone who thinks Britain has a glorious colonial past should read this article - from one of their own extremely respected historians. I can bet a lot of them don’t have any idea about such atrocities committed by people who still have their statues put up. I wonder who would ever try to justify leaving such statues up? Is british history greatly diminished by getting rid of these (or as suggested, putting them in a museum about colonialism)? 

[DaveSumm]

3 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said:

Maybe. Unfortunately though saying something is 'the right thing to do' is not in itself an argument of any kind. And as the only argument ever produced here as to why renaming the tower was 'the right thing to do' was the offensiveness of the name to BAME students, which it has now been conceded is actually irrelevant, we are left without any argument or reason why renaming the tower is 'the right thing to do.' 

Well the argument I’m putting forward here is “he was a massive racist”. To put it another way, if they just built the building and were naming it, Hume would be ruled out on account of this racism. You don’t have to name the building and wait for someone to become offended by it for it to be wrong, he’s just inherently not someone that needs buildings named after him. 

[Clueless Northman]

11 hours ago, Soylent Brown said:

Why are you so invested in having statues of slavers remain, of having offensive-to-some building names stay unchanged?

There's a lot of things and a lot of people who are offensive to a lot of people. Heck, believe me, there's a lot of things across the world named after people who are quite offensive to me.

[broken one]

9 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

There's a lot of things and a lot of people who are offensive to a lot of people. Heck, believe me, there's a lot of things across the world named after people who are quite offensive to me.

yeah, but i think it is quite different.  former colonial states/countries built their prosperity on exploitation of colonies. in effect of the whole process there are many non white citizens living in the countries. Now these are their countries and they got something to say. This is the price aboriginal Brits/Dutch/French etc must pay. Hide the pride of their history a bit.

There is a monument of Lenin in Brest (Belarus), ~40km from my town. In theory I should feel offended and want to blow it up just because of what my ancestors got through after bolshevik revolution and during Stalin era. But Belarus is not my country, it is their circus and their monkeys. Same with Stalin monument in Georgia. This monster is their hero, so be it.  And the same with glorification of banderism on Ukraine. One mans hero is others psychopatic murderer and rapist

 

 

[Werthead]

The government has dismissed claims that the PM is planning a two-week national lockdown, which is basically just confirmation that a two-week national lockdown is coming.

[Werthead]

The British government seems to have forgotten how Parliament works.

Iain Duncan Smith also going off the deep end wanting to know what Joe Biden has done about "riots" in the United States, apparently unaware that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States.

[The Anti-Targ]

I hear the US Congress sent the PM an apparently bipartisan, sternly worded letter about the Internal Markets Bill. I wonder if that will give some MPs pause about voting yea in the second reading.

[Maltaran]

Johnson has received an Ig Nobel prize, along with Trump, Bolsonaro, and various other world leaders, for “using the Covid-19 viral pandemic to teach the world that politicians can have a more immediate effect on life and death than scientists and doctors can.”

[A Horse Named Stranger]

On 9/16/2020 at 6:50 PM, Derfel Cadarn said:

Are Labour drawing straws for who gets to give Johnson a PMQ kicking?

I bet Johnson hopes that Corbyn wins on one of those days.

On 9/17/2020 at 4:03 PM, Werthead said:

Iain Duncan Smith also going off the deep end wanting to know what Joe Biden has done about "riots" in the United States, apparently unaware that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States.

How would he know about running a goverment. Blair wiped the floor with him IIRC.

[Werthead]

4 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I bet Johnson hopes that Corbyn wins on one of those days.

How would he know about running a goverment. Blair wiped the floor with him IIRC.

Iain Duncan Smith's political career is a subject of great bafflement to many, given his total ineptitude on a variety of fronts. He's very lucky in having been around such luminaries as Chris Grayling in this second part of his career, as it's distracted a bit more from his total ineptitude in the 2000s and his staggering mismanagement of the DWP at the start of this decade.

I have a strong theory he and Grayling are kept around to make the rest of the government look good in comparison.

[The Anti-Targ]

It's [one of] the problem with FPTP systems. Once a numpty manages to snag a safe seat they are basically in parliament until they decide they don't want to be, and the electorate as a whole be damned, ain't nothing to be done about it.

[Derfel Cadarn]

#poorboris trending thanks tk an article in The Times about how hard done-to he is, struggling to get by on £150k a year.

Article behind a paywall but a few screenshots in the replies.

 

Article

[dog-days]

33 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

#poorboris trending thanks tk an article in The Times about how hard done-to he is, struggling to get by on £150k a year.

Article behind a paywall but a few screenshots in the replies.

 

Article

That's horrendous. Why on earth aren't fine upstanding Tory politicians allowed to put child support payments on their parliamentary expenses? 

[Heartofice]

Part of me suspects this is part of Boris' exit plan. I really can't see him lasting all that long at this rate. Outside of just being forced out for sheer incompetence, you get the sense he really is utterly overwhelmed by the whole thing and simply cannot handle it. I'd guess he is looking for a way out.

[Derfel Cadarn]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Part of me suspects this is part of Boris' exit plan. I really can't see him lasting all that long at this rate. Outside of just being forced out for sheer incompetence, you get the sense he really is utterly overwhelmed by the whole thing and simply cannot handle it. I'd guess he is looking for a way out.

Rumour is he’s quitting in the new year, once Brexit’s done. With Murdoch wanting Gove to take over. No idea if any justification for this rumour.

Bojo at least managed to fool people with his bumbling clown persona; quite why Murdoch thinks the public will rally behind a coked-up backstabbing shitweasel, I’m not sure.
 

 

[Heartofice]

I can’t believe even Gove thinks he is electable.

[Spockydog]

Knowing the Tory membership, it will probably end up being JRM.