Heresy 232 Lady Dyanna's Rainbow

[Lady Dyanna]

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He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist. They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. “I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, “and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death. “Lord Eddard,” Lyanna called again. “I promise,” he whispered. “Lya, I promise …” “Lord Eddard,” a man echoed from the dark. Groaning, Eddard Stark opened his eyes. Moonlight streamed through the tall windows of the Tower of the Hand.

Figured if I forgot others might have too. 

[Melifeather]

There is another broken sword in the text, but a symbolic one on a very large scale:
 

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The point of land on which the Greyjoys had raised their fortress had once thrust like a sword into the bowels of the ocean, but the waves had hammered at it day and night until the land broke and shattered, thousands of years past. All that remained were three bare and barren islands and a dozen towering stacks of rock that rose from the water like the pillars of some sea god’s temple, while the angry waves foamed and crashed among them.

<snip>

The Sea Tower rose from the outmost island at the point of the broken sword, the oldest part of the castle, round and tall, the sheer-sided pillar on which it stood half-eaten through by the endless battering of the waves. The base of the tower was white from centuries of salt spray, the upper stories green from the lichen that crawled over it like a thick blanket, the jagged crown black with soot from its nightly watchfire.

The Greyjoys are ironborn. What does that even mean? Iron is a known substance to ward against magic. If you are born from iron does it not imply that you’ve broken through the ward? The Iron Islands were once a peninsula, but the Ironborn built ships and made it back to the mainland to raid. Their sword broke, but they still found a way to live.

Waymar’s longsword broke against the white walker’s blade, but Waymar didn’t stay dead. He rose again stronger and harder.

The circumstances of the Stark’s original Ice is unknown. Is it really surprising that anyone might wonder if its broken?

Waymar’s broken sword was possibly found in the possession of the wildlings and handed over to the Watch when they passed through the gate at Castle Black. They gave up the broken sword in order to live on the south side of the Wall. This broken sword leading to a new life is a repeated pattern.

My ramblings may seem like I’m drifting away from the rainbow motif, but they’re not. At least I don’t think so. To me the rainbows and lightning indicate magic. The broken swords indicate being struck by magic and transforming or crossing over to a new life.

[LynnS]

Going back to the business about the Wall and rainbows;  it seems the Wall both reflects and refracts light:

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A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

Outside the day was bright and cloudless. The sun had returned to the sky after a fortnight's absence, and to the south the Wall rose blue-white and glittering. There was a saying Jon had heard from the older men at Castle Black: the Wall has more moods than Mad King Aerys, they'd say, or sometimes, the Wall has more moods than a woman. On cloudy days it looked to be white rock. On moonless nights it was as black as coal. In snowstorms it seemed carved of snow. But on days like this, there was no mistaking it for anything but ice. On days like this the Wall shimmered bright as a septon's crystal, every crack and crevasse limned by sunlight, as frozen rainbows danced and died behind translucent ripples. On days like this the Wall was beautiful.

When the sky is bright and cloudless, the surface of the Wall where the ice is translucent shimmers like a septon's crystal.  That's really quite astounding if you picture the whole Wall appearing this way.  I can see this being Martin's version of the bi-frost separating the realms of gods and men.

I'm also intrigued by Jon's description of frozen rainbows as though the light is captured by the Wall.  Also dancing and dying  are words I associate with battle.  Could this be some foreshadowing and who are the rainbows?  I can take a guess:

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A Feast for Crows - Cersei VI

Lady Merryweather shared the queen's delight, though she had never heard of the Warrior's Sons or the Poor Fellows. "They date from before Aegon's Conquest," Cersei explained to her. "The Warrior's Sons were an order of knights who gave up their lands and gold and swore their swords to His High Holiness. The Poor Fellows . . . they were humbler, though far more numerous. Begging brothers of a sort, though they carried axes instead of bowls. They wandered the roads, escorting travelers from sept to sept and town to town. Their badge was the seven-pointed star, red on white, so the smallfolk named them Stars. The Warrior's Sons wore rainbow cloaks and inlaid silver armor over hair shirts, and bore star-shaped crystals in the pommels of their longswords. They were the Swords. Holy men, ascetics, fanatics, sorcerers, dragonslayers, demonhunters . . . there were many tales about them. But all agree that they were implacable in their hatred for all enemies of the Holy Faith."

 

[LynnS]

Ice crystals in the atmosphere refracting light:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumhorizontal_arc#/media/File:Circumhorizontal_arc_(Fire_Rainbow)_in_the_Nepal_Himalayas.jpg 

[alienarea]

Do we want to include Renly's rainbow guard?

 

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

Do we want to include Renly's rainbow guard?

 

I had mentioned Renly’s guard up thread. My thought was that maybe he was trying to forge a magical protection. Unfortunately, in the end he was killed by magic, a black shadow of Stannis birthed by a fire wight, which brings new illumination upon the Nights King and his ice wight Queen.

[Melifeather]

12 hours ago, LynnS said:

Going back to the business about the Wall and rainbows;  it seems the Wall both reflects and refracts light:

When the sky is bright and cloudless, the surface of the Wall where the ice is translucent shimmers like a septon's crystal.  That's really quite astounding if you picture the whole Wall appearing this way.  I can see this being Martin's version of the bi-frost separating the realms of gods and men.

I'm also intrigued by Jon's description of frozen rainbows as though the light is captured by the Wall.  Also dancing and dying  are words I associate with battle.  Could this be some foreshadowing and who are the rainbows?  I can take a guess:

 

The Battle for the Dawn may have been a battle against magic or between magics and the Wall is reflecting that. And I very much believe that the Wall has captured magic trapped and warded within it. The refracted nature of the rainbows is interesting too as it could be interpreted as a distortion of magic.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

a black shadow of Stannis birthed by a fire wight, which brings new illumination upon the Nights King and his ice wight Queen.

Just to clarify my thoughts. I don’t believe Stannis is the Nights King even though it would appear that he’s guilty of laying with an “Other” and giving her his seed. The Nights King of old was a Lord Commander of the Watch, ensorcelled the men, sacrificed to the Others, and ruled the Wall for thirteen years. Stannis hasn’t completely become the Nights King, but on the other hand, neither has Jon Snow who I’ve previously thought was the Nights King reborn. He’s certainly a Lord Commander, the men that mutinied seemed “ensorcelled” by someone, and he’s a bastard brother to Ramsey by their shared last name. Jon married his relation to a wildling Magnar which I feel fulfills the marriage part of the Nights King story. It’s all a bit jumbled isn’t it? The magic is broken or refracted.

[alienarea]

2 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I had mentioned Renly’s guard up thread. My thought was that maybe he was trying to forge a magical protection. Unfortunately, in the end he was killed by magic, a black shadow of Stannis birthed by a fire wight, which brings new illumination upon the Nights King and his ice wight Queen.

My problem with the Rainbow Guard is that I understand it as having a different meaning of rainbow than the one Lady Dyanna is looking at. My interpretation of Renly having a Rainbow Guard is that it is in the sense of the LGBT community, with Renly being openly gay and Brienne being a touch of transgender. Nothing wrong with this at all, but maybe not the rainbow we're looking at for clues to the story.

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

My problem with the Rainbow Guard is that I understand it as having a different meaning of rainbow than the one Lady Dyanna is looking at. My interpretation of Renly having a Rainbow Guard is that it is in the sense of the LGBT community, with Renly being openly gay and Brienne being a touch of transgender. Nothing wrong with this at all, but maybe not the rainbow we're looking at for clues to the story.

I can see how it could be viewed this way, although there are two problems with that assumption. 1) both Renly and Loras we’re actively hiding their sexuality, and 2) the rainbow flag is a modern day symbol. I don’t know the exact year it came to symbolize gay pride, but I’m thinking late ‘70’s or early ‘80’s.

[alienarea]

1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

I can see how it could be viewed this way, although there are two problems with that assumption. 1) both Renly and Loras we’re actively hiding their sexuality, and 2) the rainbow flag is a modern day symbol. I don’t know the exact year it came to symbolize gay pride, but I’m thinking late ‘70’s or early ‘80’s.

Late '70's or early '80's is before ASoIaF.

The reader knows about Renly and  Loras, there is no secret here.

[Melifeather]

19 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Late '70's or early '80's is before ASoIaF.

The reader knows about Renly and  Loras, there is no secret here.

Yes we know they are lovers, but they aren’t making a statement or declaration with the rainbow guard. 

[Lady Dyanna]

Haven’t really had time to read through yet today. We might need to keep a running list somewhere since there’s so much territory this seems to cover? But definitely I’d say the rainbow guard is important just for its name alone. The Dawn sword for its light v Valyrian steel that drinks the light v. the swords of the ww. The wall v the black oily stones in Asshai. The curtain of light v the Shadow. The wall with special attention to the black gate. Old gods v the Faith of the 7. The white walkers v. Dragons v. Second life. Valyria v Hardhome. How Magic relates to all of it. And what does the rainbow itself symbolize when it’s mentioned if anything. (I think maybe Lynn was into something with the death angle after peaking at the quotes.) Am I missing anything so far? 
 

[Lady Dyanna]

As for the Rainbow guard in particular. I thought it might not be a horrible thing to look more at the WHY the rainbow flag is the symbol for Pride. Though I have little doubt that there was something of a tongue in cheek angle to GRRM’s usage here, it would be far from the first time that there are hidden layers of meaning in this work. Anyways.... Wikipedia...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag_(LGBT)
 

The rainbow flag (also known as the gay pride flagor LGBT pride flag) is a symbol of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) pride and LGBTQ social movements. Other older uses of rainbow flags include a symbol of peace. The colors reflect the diversity of the LGBTQ community, as the flag is often used as a symbol of gay pride during LGBTQ rights marches. While this use of the rainbow flag originated in San Francisco, it is now used worldwide.

The rainbow flag is a symbol of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer(LGBTQ) pride and LGBT social movements in use since the 1970s.

Originally devised by artist Gilbert Baker, the design has undergone several revisions since its debut in 1978, first to remove colors then restore them based on availability of fabrics.^[1][2] The first flag had eight colors, however the traditional and still most common variant consists of six stripes: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and violet. The flag is typically flown horizontally, with the red stripe on top, as it would be in a natural rainbow.

LGBTQ individuals and allies currently use rainbow flags and many rainbow-themed items and color schemes as an outward symbol of their identity or support. The rainbow flag is also commonly used as a general symbol of social equality and individuality.^{[citation needed]} In addition to the rainbow, many other flags and symbols are used to communicate specific identities within the LGBTQ+ community.

[corbon]

4 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Yes we know they are lovers, but they aren’t making a statement or declaration with the rainbow guard. 

 

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The Rainbow Guard isn't meant to symbolize Renly's sexuality. It was more of a culmination of several unrelated things, such as the fact that he'd already used white for the Kingsguard and black for the Night's Watch. A rainbow is seven colors combined together in one object - he compared it to a shamrock being a Irish Catholic symbol of the Holy Trinity, three parts which make up one thing. Plus it has seven colors and is tied to the Seven, plus worshipers of the Seven use prism rainbows in their temples.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/To_Be_Continued_Chicago_IL_May_6_8/

 

[Lady Dyanna]

Thanks for the SSM @corbon. That seems to agree with the way that we’re trying to frame things ... one being comprised of many. A symbol of peace and unity among diversity. Fits for the Rainbow Guard in outwards appearance as well.

i do also think that if we look closer we will see many transitions among them, including death for some of them, just to prepare these Knights of Summer, as Catelyn calls them, for winter battles.  

[Black Crow]

While I agree with Alienarea that Renly's Rainbow Guard is relevant and note GRRM's comments as quoted by Corbon, its important  to understand the real significance of the symbol.

The LGBTQ community adopted the rainbow flag back in the 70s didn't invent it, they only adopted it. As Alienarea will be able to confirm the earliest known version actually dates back to the Bundschuh movement and the German Peasant War of the 1520s. Then as now it was a symbol of unity, and as Thomas Muntzer declared, a pact with God.

[Melifeather]

If rainbows indicate magic, what does that say about the magic hating Faith of the Seven? Did they deliberately try to change the narrative and assert that there is no such thing as magic and that all unexplained mysteries are due to this seven faceted god? It's a strategy employed by the Catholic Church. They merged many pagan practices and beliefs and rebranded various myths, dieties, and festivals into the church in order to convert the masses. The Greco-Roman practice of eating the body and blood of gods became the Catholic rite of Holy Communion. The Winter solstice Saturnalia festival became Christmas as did the Spring equinox fertility celebration became Easter. It only seems logical to me that if a church wanted to convert the masses of Westeros, it would need to rebrand magic.

[Lady Dyanna]

2 hours ago, Melifeather said:

If rainbows indicate magic, what does that say about the magic hating Faith of the Seven? Did they deliberately try to change the narrative and assert that there is no such thing as magic and that all unexplained mysteries are due to this seven faceted god? It's a strategy employed by the Catholic Church. They merged many pagan practices and beliefs and rebranded various myths, dieties, and festivals into the church in order to convert the masses. The Greco-Roman practice of eating the body and blood of gods became the Catholic rite of Holy Communion. The Winter solstice Saturnalia festival became Christmas as did the Spring equinox fertility celebration became Easter. It only seems logical to me that if a church wanted to convert the masses of Westeros, it would need to rebrand magic.

I don’t know that I would necessarily say that they are indicative of magic per se, but rather of transition. Some transitions are of magical nature but many others are not. i.e. death. That said clearly 7 v. 9 is a fundamental difference. Seems like the Faith might be ignoring or eliminating something. Or possibly TWO somethings. What I keep coming back to is that seven of the colors are visible to the naked eye, but the ends of the spectrum are not. That makes me wonder which transitions are possible for the old Gods v. The 7. The two things that stands out for me the most are the belief the first men hold of a second life and transitioning into nature. And the idea that in essence the wights are a return from that state. Is there a purgatory on earth that warriors like Ned Stark can be called back from the dead? Seems like there might be plenty of good reasons for the Faith to conceal that. 

[Lady Dyanna]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:43 AM, Melifeather said:

Just to clarify my thoughts. I don’t believe Stannis is the Nights King even though it would appear that he’s guilty of laying with an “Other” and giving her his seed. The Nights King of old was a Lord Commander of the Watch, ensorcelled the men, sacrificed to the Others, and ruled the Wall for thirteen years. Stannis hasn’t completely become the Nights King, but on the other hand, neither has Jon Snow who I’ve previously thought was the Nights King reborn. He’s certainly a Lord Commander, the men that mutinied seemed “ensorcelled” by someone, and he’s a bastard brother to Ramsey by their shared last name. Jon married his relation to a wildling Magnar which I feel fulfills the marriage part of the Nights King story. It’s all a bit jumbled isn’t it? The magic is broken or refracted.

That’s because Bran is the one symbolically fulfilling the role of the Nights King in the current story. He chased the three eyed crow. Gave it his seed. (Both literally, if he is unable to father children, and figuratively, feeding it corn) And is currently wedded to a Weirwood tree. Not to mention that he has already bound at least one to his service. (Hodor) 

The more I look at the echoes/inversion tales I wonder if we might be doing the exact wrong thing with them. Instead of being a key to untangling our mystery maybe they are just a narrative devise designed to highlight that outcomes change based upon individual choice?