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Was Daemon Targaryen bisexual?


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@Ran @Linda

MAJOR QUESTION;  ever since reading the Princess and the Queen in 2013, I got the IMPRESSION that Daemon Targaryen was bisexual.

Due to rumors of casting sheets going out for the role, some youtube channels were discussing this, and in the livechat were surprised and confused when I said Daemon was bisexual.

I feared this might just be an assumption that turned into fact in my mind over the past seven years, without a thorough re-read.  I went back to check the wiki's article on "Gender and Sexuality" and was surprised Daemon wasn't listed with the LGBT characters.  Thinking on it, I now believe I based this assumption on two points:

1 - Elio & Linda have described Daemon as "a Targaryen version of Oberyn Martell"...and Oberyn is bisexual.  But this added aspect of Oberyn was never explicitly stated for Daemon.

2 - ...the way it was phrased in The Princess and the Queen (same in final version of Fire & Blood) at the first Green Council that:  

Quote

Ser Criston Cole spoke up. Should the princess reign, he reminded them, Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne.” He spoke of Rhaenyra’s wanton ways and the infamy of her husband. “They will turn the Red Keep into a brothel. No man’s daughter will be safe, nor any man’s wife. Even the boys…we know what Laenor was.”

....but the Greens think none of Rhaenyra's children were actually fathered by Laenor Velaryon, infamously homosexual....so why would her first three sons inherit this from Laenor?

What exactly does that line mean: "we know what Laenor was"?  Referring to Rhaenyra's alleged sexual appetites?   Because it's paired here with "Daemon's infamy".

Well, given the Oberyn Martell comparisons, I always took this as referring to Daemon being bisexual.  Now, I'm not so sure, it wasn't worded clearly.

Can Elio & Linda please check on this? (possibly with GRRM)...otherwise I made a huge mistake.

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I thought that thing you were quoting had to do with Laenor being gay and promiscuous, not Daemon. Furthermore. during Daemon's flings with denizens of King's Landing in his youth, it was stated that he liked to deflower maidens and there was no mention of Daemon ever having sexual interest in men.

I think Daemon is like Oberyn in that he liked all woman, lowborn, whores, highborn woman, all woman were fair game to him. And he too always payed his dwarf penny for the maidens he deflowered in the Street of Silk too.

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6 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

....why does Cole even remark "we all knew what Laenor was?" -- I mean, he's dead.  What future impact does that have?

This was when they were considering him to be Rhaenyra's King Consort when she took the Iron Throne. She was Heir to the Iron Throne, afterall. 

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Laenor is dead at that point. The reference is to the idea that Rhaenyra's acceptance of Laenor's homosexuality would create a corruptive influence on her court or that of her sons.

Daemon was not bisexual. There's no evidence at all. Our reference to his being the Targaryen version of Oberyn Martell relates to his colorful career as an adventurer, his capacity for cruelty and holding grudges, his being a very dangerous man, and his general demeanor.

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15 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

@Ran @Linda

MAJOR QUESTION;  ever since reading the Princess and the Queen in 2013, I got the IMPRESSION that Daemon Targaryen was bisexual.

Due to rumors of casting sheets going out for the role, some youtube channels were discussing this, and in the livechat were surprised and confused when I said Daemon was bisexual.

I feared this might just be an assumption that turned into fact in my mind over the past seven years, without a thorough re-read.  I went back to check the wiki's article on "Gender and Sexuality" and was surprised Daemon wasn't listed with the LGBT characters.  Thinking on it, I now believe I based this assumption on two points:

1 - Elio & Linda have described Daemon as "a Targaryen version of Oberyn Martell"...and Oberyn is bisexual.  But this added aspect of Oberyn was never explicitly stated for Daemon.

2 - ...the way it was phrased in The Princess and the Queen (same in final version of Fire & Blood) at the first Green Council that:  

....but the Greens think none of Rhaenyra's children were actually fathered by Laenor Velaryon, infamously homosexual....so why would her first three sons inherit this from Laenor?

What exactly does that line mean: "we know what Laenor was"?  Referring to Rhaenyra's alleged sexual appetites?   Because it's paired here with "Daemon's infamy".

Well, given the Oberyn Martell comparisons, I always took this as referring to Daemon being bisexual.  Now, I'm not so sure, it wasn't worded clearly.

Can Elio & Linda please check on this? (possibly with GRRM)...otherwise I made a huge mistake.

He wasn't bi at all, Oberyn was compared to him because both had colorful arcs,and a bit cruelty and rougery in their personalities.

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Yeah, Daemon wasn't interested in men as far as we know.

Rhaenyra may have been bisexual to a point, considering she supposedly was 'more than fond' of her sister-in-law, Laena Velaryon during the time they all lived on Dragonstone/Driftmark in the late 110s. But for that we have just that throwaway line, no indication that she had any female favorites or confidants she was very close with, unlike Queen Rhaena back in her day.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/6/2020 at 6:20 AM, The Dragon Demands said:

....why does Cole even remark "we all knew what Laenor was?" -- I mean, he's dead.  What future impact does that have?

There are several different interpretations about what happened between Cole and Rhaenyra. One interpretation is that Rhaenyra ultimately rejected Cole in favor of Laenor. In this case it might stem from Cole still being bitter and needing shame Laenor even after death. 

In all interpretation it seems that Cole has a particular problem with Rhaenyra's decadence. Reminding everyone that Laenor was homosexual and that Rhaenyra knew this, but still married and protected him helps furthering the narrative that Rhaenyra and her court do not deserve the Iron Throne. Claiming Laenor was gay also strengthens their claim that Rhaenyra's children are bastards. 

Cole has personal, political and ideological reasons to attack Laenor even after his passing. 

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On 9/6/2020 at 3:29 AM, The Dragon Demands said:

My god.  

Seven years.   

Seven years I've misconstrued these two statements.

I'm...this is one of my biggest mistakes ever, with the entire book series.

 

Don’t beat yourself up over it. You saw a chance for possible inclusion where a character’s orientation wasn’t outright denied or confirmed. Daemon might very well have been curious for all we know, it’s not like anyone writing the histories would know. The gift of unreliable narration is that it opens up a lot of opportunities. And again, Daemon’s true sexual orientation wasn’t confirmed or denied, we just have no evidence that he was interested in men. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

A lot of the stigma around homosexuality derived from a belief that homosexuals were also child predators, and that homosexuality could "spread" from one person to another. 

I recently watched the documentary Howard, which is about Howard Ashman, who wrote the lyrics for several Disney movies in the 80s and 90s. Howard died of AIDS, and in the doc, they explained that he kept the diagnosis a secret for so long not only because of the stigma surrounding AIDS, but because he was afraid that, since he was working on movies for kids, he would be accused of being a pedophile and lose his job due to his orientation.

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