What were Dany's biggest mistakes in Slaver's Bay

[SeanF]

23 minutes ago, frenin said:

Since I'm young enough to have been almost a baby when ASOS came out i don't know when this "Not all the Masters" nonsense but i do feel that it was way before the show took it as its own. 

There is absolutely no reason to believe one of those slavers were innocent. She went after the leaders, not the average master.

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Back in the day, when I joined in 2011, "not all the  masters" was so much the prevailing wisdom that I believed it for a time.  

[Hodor the Articulate]

7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The crucifixion of the children was not a deed that was perpetrated in secret by some small cadre, or carried out by brutal underlings acting without orders.  It was a deliberate, open, gesture of defiance, which could only have been planned at a high level.

If there were Great Masters who stuck up for the rights of slave children, I think Martin would have said so in the text.

The Great/Wise/Good Masters are some of the most exaggeratedly evil villains in the series. They're literal puppy and baby killers! I find it hard to believe any of them were fiercely arguing against the crucifixion of slave children.

16 minutes ago, frenin said:

Since I'm young enough to have been almost a baby when ASOS came out i don't know when this "Not all the Masters" nonsense but i do feel that it was way before the show took it as its own. 

The idea was floating around way before the show. The thought was, there should have been a trial to determine which individuals were guilty of the crucifixions, and that would have been true justice. Because trials in this world are always impartial and just...

[Nathan Stark]

There were two fundamental mistakes that Dany made. The first was not listening to the advice offered by Shavepate. He had the right idea, uncomfortable as it made Dany. She needed to bring Fire and Blood to the Green Grace (aka the Harpy) and her minions, not compromise and peace.

Dany's second mistake was taking the children hostage. She should have taken adults as hostages, adults whom she could put to death if need be without losing too much sleep. There's no value in a hostage if you aren't willing to harm them if and when their families don't do what you want. Which ties back to how the Shavepate was right all along; the Good and Wise Masters needed to be treated harshly, not fairly.

[Rondo]

5 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

There were two fundamental mistakes that Dany made. The first was not listening to the advice offered by Shavepate. He had the right idea, uncomfortable as it made Dany. She needed to bring Fire and Blood to the Green Grace (aka the Harpy) and her minions, not compromise and peace.

Dany's second mistake was taking the children hostage. She should have taken adults as hostages, adults whom she could put to death if need be without losing too much sleep. There's no value in a hostage if you aren't willing to harm them if and when their families don't do what you want. Which ties back to how the Shavepate was right all along; the Good and Wise Masters needed to be treated harshly, not fairly.

You are probably right.  Although the old master classes are too determined to be stopped in my opinion.  The deaths of their children only make them martyrs in the eyes of the master families.  I don't have the answers and neither does anybody for that matter.  It is just going to have to grind it out and continue fighting the masters.  The Freedom Fighters are winning and that is why the Harpy is fighting harder.  Freedom will be won but it will take time and patience.  Much blood will be spilled.  Excepting if the master families make a choice to give up their way.  I am doubtful the masters will do that.  

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 9/8/2020 at 4:40 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

But it's not really. The only ones who have freedom right now are the Mereenese. She failed in providing that much freedom, and the war in ongoing. For now she failed way more then the Americans did int eh Reconstruction. There Jim Crow laws existed, but slavery still ended. Dany cannot boast of that

The war is not yet complete. Daenerys Targaryen has not failed and will not fail.  She is the best leader in ASOIAF.  She will end slavery in that part of the world. This is a large-scale change in terms of social and economic systems.  She is making faster progress when compared to the war against the confederacy.  

[Nathan Stark]

Yeah, "she failed" implies that everything was settled at the end of the last book, and that Dany already lost and admitted defeat. Nothing of the sort happened. It seems to me that GRRM is setting events up for Dany's allies in Meereen to defeat the enemy army in the Battle of Fire. Things are pretty far from over. And the overall situation in the slave trading world is that slaves are getting restless, like we saw in Volantis. There's a lot riding on the movement Dany started to win this battle, but a victory will be a huge blow to the slave powers and a major boost to the freedom movement. So it's very premature to say that Dany has failed.

[Darth Sidious]

A lot of good replies have already been contributed.  I came on late to this thread.  In general, my opinion on what is happening in Meereen and that part of the world follows. 

A.  Slavery has been the dominating part of life in Slaver's Bay for over a thousand years.  Far longer than it was in use during the pre civil war time in America.  It is not easy for anybody who isn't God to remove something like that.  The masters had it all going their way and they ruled over other humans as if they were gods.  There was nothing anybody can give them which would have made them give up slavery voluntarily.  The only way to make them stop was by the use of force. 

B.  Change on this massive scale will never be easy.  But the advantage the freedom fighters have is significant, they are the majority of the population.  They will not be the majority when slavery ends.  All the labor skills and knowledge are also in their hands.  The Masters were parasites living off the work of their slaves.  

C.  It was not a mistake to stay and rule over Meereen.  One of the things I love about Daenerys is her courage.  It was the right thing to do.  Otherwise, she would not be any better than an Ironborn.  All her work so far will have been for nothing if she had simply left.  

D.  It was not possible to stay in Astapor and Yunkai.  The Meereenese and their allies would have attacked them soon after their arrival.  The third city was the best place to stay and defend. 

E.  Astapor was a rescue mission to save the thousands of Unsullied and trainees.  That mission gave her the best Infantry that world has to offer.  From a military perspective, it was a great move.  It is just too bad that there were some former slaves who exploited the situation but that can be resolved after the Yunkaii and their allies are defeated.  

F.  All of the troubles in Meereen would not have happened if the Masters had been sincere about giving up slavery.  All of the problems stem from the fact that they are working to try and bring it back.  So the Masters and their allies are the causes of the suffering.  Slavery is on life support, it is dying, and the Harpies are their desperate attempt to hold back Freedom.  

G.  Executing the Masters for nailing those children to the crosses was justice.  They were picked and selected by their own people.  Is that not how we put people on trial today?  It is.  Today, at least in America, guilt and innocence are decided by a jury made up of peers.  And that is exactly what happened in Meereen.  That is much, much better than the trial by combat as is done in Westeros.  

I don't think Daenerys made mistakes.  This endeavor would have been too much for just about anybody but she has not given up.  The movement is like a wind of change blowing across Essos.  It is only a matter of time before the slaves in other cities rise up and fight on their own for their freedom.  

[TedBear]

Dany makes mistakes like everyone else.

"I spared Yunkai before, but I will not make that mistake again. If they should dare attack me, this time I shall raze their Yellow City to the ground."

In my opinion this was the biggest, but children grow up and learn. 

 

[GoldenGail3]

On 9/12/2020 at 11:18 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The war is not yet complete. Daenerys Targaryen has not failed and will not fail.  She is the best leader in ASOIAF.  She will end slavery in that part of the world. This is a large-scale change in terms of social and economic systems.  She is making faster progress when compared to the war against the confederacy.  

Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon take great offense. 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

I don't know if this can be called a mistake but she was not devious enough.  Skahaz mo Kandaq knows his people and he has completely thrown in with her cause.  It is hard to swallow, the idea of killing children, but that could have worked.  Though not the strategy which I would have advised her to take but at least do something similar.  Imagine Skahaz and Daario on one shoulder.  They whisper more violence as if the end justified the means.  Barristan and Jorah on one side whispering, "lets leave."  Because it is Westeros they care about.  Her small council is not complete because they do not have the set of skills, skill set, required to root out the guerillas and the underground terrorists which are causing trouble.  They need somebody like Varys.  If not, then the poor man's Varys, Arya Stark.  A spy who can gather the needed intelligence to find the troublesome operatives of the harpy. 

I think Ser Barristan will be taken by surprise.  The harpy will attack them from behind.  I hope he survives and lives long enough to lead the return to Westeros. 

[Tyrion1991]

OP

No mistakes that matter.

The entire scenario in Slavers Bay is a contrived and ridiculous situation.

Dany conquers a City. Chooses to spare the noble families and prevents them being killed by the Freed Slaves. Then, in ADWD this same group is suddenly filling posts in her government, depicted with its wealth and power intact. They then begin a guerilla war. Killing freed slaves and Unsullied. Even if Dany did not want to kill this group, the realistic scenario is that the slaves would point the finger and kill the masters. This does not happen because it would be inconvenient to the story. George basically ignores the existence of the half million or so freed slaves who should be a bastion of strength for Dany. 

George R R Martin creates a landscape in which it is impossible to leave. Then blames her for not leaving. Dany is told, on multiple occasions, that marching out of the Daemon Road will destroy her army. Travel by sea is also impractical since Valeria is in the way. That is not presenting the character with a choice, that is putting them in story jail. So ostensibly this trading network is in an incredibly geographically isolated location. Very convenient.

Then, we are told that the entire economy of this region is based on training slaves to be gladiators. So Dany does not have the easy option of simply giving the slaves the land they were already working and then taxing them. Firstly it’s absurd that an entire economy could be based on something as narrow as training slaves as gladiators. Secondly, it is contrived since if Dany had been presented with, the American South for example after the Civil War this would not be an issue at all. Give the slaves land, tax them at a fair rate for protection; you get a reasonable economy. Not King Cotton but then Dany isn’t interested in making herself stupidly rich here. What we get in ADWD is poetic nonsense about her making a desert of the world in her rage.

Of course, that geographic isolation is ignored as half a continent declares war on one woman in her city. Directing a colossal host numbering in the tens of thousands. Why would Byzantium declare war because a little girl had freed the slaves of Bengal? How could they possibly move such a host with such ease and speed? 

Then, the icing on the cake. After beating us over the head with Danys appeasement. George drops the bombshell that apparently the slavers are bluffing. They know they haven’t got a chance beating Dany. So all that blister and pushing her over the edge. The provocation of killing a quarter million people in Astapor. That was just a bluff. They don’t really want to wake the Dragon. This was the author showing his hand. In Winds he is going to depict Dany an unreasonable monster. A Genghis Khan. With the intent of pointing at how she made the wrong decision here when she chose war.

You can’t hold the character at fault when she is being set up to fail.