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Alyn Oakenfist

What were Dany's biggest mistakes in Slaver's Bay

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So it's fairly obvious that Dany's campaign in Slaver's Bay has not gone that well. Personally I would say her biggest running mistake is treating the slavers at int eh worst possible way, letting them retain a lot of power, but royally pissing them off. Like she could try either appeasing them or going for the full Iron Boot on them, both of which would be more effective then what she did in ADWD. So what do you think, what were her biggest mistakes?

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As long as she talks about leaving Slavers Bay all sane local players has to be prepared what happens after Dany and her troops will leave. Or if she really would like to chance that part of world better place she should forget any idea about invading Westeros. So she should choose what she really wants. Or she could become queen of Westeros or Slavers Bay. But she cannot have both. 

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1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

There were many, but not completely uprooting the slaving class, including leaving Yunkai untouched, was the biggest one. 

I think the latter part there is the big one. If Yunkai had been sacked, too, there wouldn't have been an alliance against her.

With Yunkai destroyed, she could have afforded to be more lenient in Meereen.

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Strangely enough despite machiavelli part in popular culture in the prince he says it’s better to have the backing of the people than the ruling class. Well that was my reading of a passage anyways her biggest mistake was not uprooting the mereen nobles enough, they keep talking about her being a barbarian  and that her bowing to their  will was that of a true ruler but I think that’s only said so they can play her and they did. 
 

Tywin would disapprove of the half measures she’s been taking 

Edited by RedDragon

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1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said:

As long as she talks about leaving Slavers Bay all sane local players has to be prepared what happens after Dany and her troops will leave. Or if she really would like to chance that part of world better place she should forget any idea about invading Westeros. So she should choose what she really wants. Or she could become queen of Westeros or Slavers Bay. But she cannot have both. 

Actually...she can have both.

19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think the latter part there is the big one. If Yunkai had been sacked, too, there wouldn't have been an alliance against her.

With Yunkai destroyed, she could have afforded to be more lenient in Meereen.

She didn't even have to destroy Yunkai.

She could've just conquered Yunkai, made herself its Queen and then expand her rule into Meereen. Think Aegon the Conqueror. He made himself a headquarters in the Crownlands by defeating the armies therein and then he went on to overpower the kings in the Riverlands and the Stormlands.

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3 minutes ago, RedDragon said:

Strangely enough despite machiavelli part in popular culture in the prince he says it’s better to have the backing of the people than the ruling class. Well that was my reading of a passage anyways her biggest mistake was not uprooting the mereen nobles enough, they keep talking about her being a barbarian  and that her bowing to their  will was that of a true ruler but I think that’s only said so they can play her and they did. 
 

Tywin would disapprove of the half measures she’s been taking 

That's why I look at the people who are anti-Daenerys crazy.

Obviously, Daenerys has been far too nice and accommodating. She is almost-literally letting the ruling class of Qarth, Slaver's Bay and the aggressively pro-slavery Free Cities walk all over her.

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Her biggest mistake is that after seizing Meereen she stopped acting like a conqueror. What a proper conqueror should do? -> He (or she) should come, conquer, and then to dictate to conquered people how it's going to be from now on. And those people either abide to those rules, established by the Conqueror, or they die. But Dany let the Masters to dictate to her their own rules, they made her play their games. Even though she had more power, and could have made all of them to play her game.

For example, when the Green Grace and Hizdahr came to her, and told her that the Sons of the Harpy will stop killing her people, if she will marry with Hizdahr and will make him the King of Meereen, she agreed to it. Instead, what she should have done is this - she should have seized both of them, and tortured them until they revealed to her who is the Harpy, who are her Sons, and then sent her people to kill all of them. Because eventually that's what she will have to do, to keep peace in Meereen - to get rid of the Harpy and her Sons. So the marriage with Hizdahr was a wasted move, she should have skipped it all along, and moved on with her conquest.

She not only made an excess worthless move, she also sold herself too cheap. Is she going to marry with every guy from whom she will need something? Will she have seven husbands from each of the Seven Kingdoms, when she will go to Westeros? Of course not. Because she is "not for sale", she is not a part of bargain. She should have set that as a rule from the very beginning, when her dragons hatched. But she didn't, and that's also was and is one of her greatest mistakes. It started with Drogo, to whom she was sold by Illyrio and Viserys, and it didn't stopped even after they died. They are dead (and in case with Illyrio, he is far away from her), but she still abides to their rules, instead of realising that now she's the one who's in control, now she's the one who has the power (her dragons and her Unsullied). She should have established her own rules, and made other people follow them. She had enough power to succeed in that. But she is still too meek to act the part of the real Conqueror. She not only had bended to other people's will and made by them rules, she also let them to dictate to her who and what she is. She let them turn her into a bargaining chip, and for them she became the queen with floppy ears, the queen of rabbits. She forgot who she really is, and what she is able to do. The Mother of Dragons and Fire and Blood, that is her path, but she veered off it. That's her greatest mistake.

She came to Meereen to conquer it, but half way in completely forgot why is she there, and what is she supposed to do. She's a really bad planner, and she doesn't know what to do with her time/life. That's because she didn't had to plan anything in her life until now. Previously everything for her was decided by other people. Including with whom to marry, and what dress to wear for the wedding. Viserys was her personal life planner, then Drogo, then Jorah. Though Jorah was exiled shortly after Meereen was seized, and from then on she was on her own, and that's why she got stuck at Meereen, what didn't happened at Astapor or Yunkai, where she still had Jorah's counsel. And the only person who is willing to take charge of Dany (Quaithe), is speaking in riddles (:rolleyes:). So Dany doesn't understand what is it that she's supposed to do. Prior starting her conquest, she should have decided for herself what is it that she wants (to get Iron Throne? to become the Queen of Slavers Bay? anything else?), how is she going to get it, and should have stuck to that path.

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Locking up her dragons. She put here most important assets on hold with no plan for what to do with them. There were plenty of other mistakes but I can understand those. She's idealistic and inexperienced. She thought if she broke the chains and let the slaves have their own lives then everything would be better. I don't fault her for not knowing how that would turn out. But she should have known better about the dragons. They're too important to her and she knew she had no plan for them.

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None.  She didn't make any big mistakes in Slaver's Bay.  The reason why there is still unrest is because the masters and their terrorists arm, the Harpy, are resisting.  Daenerys is doing the right thing.  Some may say she was being too soft on the masters and the Ghiscari but it is good to try giving them a chance to make the right choice.  It is clear now that they are not going to do that, so it is time for a large scale Dracarys. 

I do not believe any other leader, Tywin included, could have handled Slaver's Bay any better.  Jon Snow certainly could not.  I mean he couldn't handle a few thousand people at the wall.  Robb would have cried himself to sleep and wet his bed after one week in Slaver's Bay.  The liberation of millions and the campaign to end a brutal slaving practice that had been in place for over a thousand years is not going to happen smoothly. 

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It's hard for me to not let real world politics and beliefs mix with this. But she should have taken all of the master's riches from Yunkai, Astapor and Meeren and divided them amongst their former slaves. Efectively taking the power away from them and paying the slaves after generations of exploitative work. All masters and their families should have been imprisoned, their children taken as hostages, but they all should be confortable and safe in the great pyramid. Always watched by at least two unsullied each. Theres no making peace with creatures so abhorrent as slavers (although Dany is herself a slaver, was supported by slaver Ilyrio Mopatis, was married to major slaver Kahl Drogo and her most trusted advisor was also a slaver). If she had done this she would have a significantly smaller opposition. She should have called every sellsword company she could and offered each of their leaders a title and part of the earnings of one of the three cities. After a few years of training freedmen she would have a massive army and three dragons, it would then be easy for her to negotiate a cease of slavery with other cities.

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6 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So it's fairly obvious that Dany's campaign in Slaver's Bay has not gone that well. Personally I would say her biggest running mistake is treating the slavers at int eh worst possible way, letting them retain a lot of power, but royally pissing them off. Like she could try either appeasing them or going for the full Iron Boot on them, both of which would be more effective then what she did in ADWD. So what do you think, what were her biggest mistakes?

Actually, no. It's not obvious that she made any big mistakes. Your assumption is very slanted.  An undertaking of this level has never been attempted before.  Just because the harpy is still causing problems does not mean a mistake was made.  The only other option was to kill all of the masters. (that would have made her critics foam at the mouth).  It may get to the point if the slavers continue to fight. We will wait and see.  

Confiscating wealth could help a little but it would not stop the other slaving cities from funding the enemy.  It is a complex problem but the payoff, freedom for millions, is beyond value.  The reward for all this hardship and temporary suffering is freedom.

Americans were killing Americans during the Civil War. Many must have questioned the value of what they were doing at the time. Today, we all know it was worth it.  I see Meereen in the same way.  Worth it.

 

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Conquering, looting, then moving on. The only permanent thing in her life, really. The dragons plant no trees line is a direct link to the fact that the Dothraki dont believe in farming or settlements. 

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5 hours ago, Groo said:

Locking up her dragons. She put here most important assets on hold with no plan for what to do with them. There were plenty of other mistakes but I can understand those. She's idealistic and inexperienced. She thought if she broke the chains and let the slaves have their own lives then everything would be better. I don't fault her for not knowing how that would turn out. But she should have known better about the dragons. They're too important to her and she knew she had no plan for them.

She brought nukes into the world without a plan for them to begin with. It was just fire mania "CANT YOU SEE?!?!?!?!?!" (A character narrating their thoughts in all caps is a bad sign). Locking them up is the best choice for the moment because dragons attack friends and foes alike. They are also symbols of slavery historically, in that region. Most of the people she conquered feared that a Valyrian with dragons was there to enslave them (Her unpaid farm gulag didnt help improve that impression) 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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10 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

No exit strategy

No really effective strategies at all IMHO

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7 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Efectively taking the power away from them and paying the slaves after generations of exploitative work. All masters and their families should have been imprisoned, their children taken as hostages, but they all should be confortable and safe in the great pyramid. Always watched by at least two unsullied each. Theres no making peace with creatures so abhorrent as slavers (although Dany is herself a slaver, was supported by slaver Ilyrio Mopatis, was married to major slaver Kahl Drogo and her most trusted advisor was also a slaver). If she had done this she would have a significantly smaller opposition. She should have called every sellsword company she could and offered each of their leaders a title and part of the earnings of one of the three cities. After a few years of training freedmen she would have a massive army and three dragons, it would then be easy for her to negotiate a cease of slavery with other cities.

Now that's all well and good, but here's the thing. She needs the former slavers to be a part of the new society, in some capacity. The former slaves lack the proper education (for obvious reasons) to engage in several key fields, such as high level craftsmanship, most bureaucratic jobs and basically everything that requires a high level of education. So if she wanted to build something sustainable, nuking the slavers would not have been the solution. Confiscating their fortunes however could have worked, as it would mean that those former slavers that were necessary would now have more incentive to work and those who weren't would have no power what so ever.

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7 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The reward for all this hardship and temporary suffering is freedom.

Americans were killing Americans during the Civil War. Many must have questioned the value of what they were doing at the time. Today, we all know it was worth it.  I see Meereen in the same way.  Worth it.

But it's not really. The only ones who have freedom right now are the Mereenese. She failed in providing that much freedom, and the war in ongoing. For now she failed way more then the Americans did int eh Reconstruction. There Jim Crow laws existed, but slavery still ended. Dany cannot boast of that

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41 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Now that's all well and good, but here's the thing. She needs the former slavers to be a part of the new society, in some capacity. The former slaves lack the proper education (for obvious reasons) to engage in several key fields, such as high level craftsmanship, most bureaucratic jobs and basically everything that requires a high level of education.

This is incorrect. Slaver's Bay didn't simply sell slaves, they "produced" highly skilled slaves. There are multiple instances where it is mentioned that the (former) slaves perform in a large number of offices, including craftsmanship, bureaucracy, languages, arts, war, etc. What they lack are resources, power structures and sometimes class identity. There is also a failure from Dany's part in the reorganization of the society to make use of that talent.

Second, there are also former slavers that were pardoned and assumed a new role in a slave-free society. They are called the shavepates.

 

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