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The Trouble With Peace by Joe Abercrombie [SPOILER THREAD]


Corvinus85

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On 9/15/2020 at 6:57 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

Got it yesterday.  Finished it.  Loved it.  I skipped pages for the final battle.  I know battles are his thing but if you've read one Joe Abercrombie battle... 

 

Same. 

There were pages and pages of battle focused on characters who we'd never heard about before. Joe writes great battles, but I think our ability to connect to it is diminished when it's filled with anonymous characters. 

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47 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

Same. 

There were pages and pages of battle focused on characters who we'd never heard about before. Joe writes great battles, but I think our ability to connect to it is diminished when it's filled with anonymous characters. 

I agree that the battle in this book did seem to lack some of the usual zing.  Downsides' mini chapter in particular I was mostly skimming.  It just doesn't carry the same heft as when it's someone like Logen or Dogman.  In Heroes it was fun to check on new POVs, but it is getting tiresome fast for me. 

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4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I agree that the battle in this book did seem to lack some of the usual zing.  Downsides' mini chapter in particular I was mostly skimming.  It just doesn't carry the same heft as when it's someone like Logen or Dogman.  In Heroes it was fun to check on new POVs, but it is getting tiresome fast for me. 

I liked the Antaup part. And the one where the pikeman is slowly killed had some visual strength to it.

OTOH the engine explosion scene was different, as it wasn't a chain scene like his others. You could say it was a radial scene, which fits with what an explosion does.

Btw, the levies raised by the rebel Midderland lords made me think of the Yunkish masters and their ridiculous forces in ADWD.

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On 9/15/2020 at 6:57 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

 

4.  As for Leo dan Brock what is a lion without his paws eh?  At least with George you knew (sort of) that Jamie was on a character growth arc.  Bet Joe's just going to leave him to rot and dwindle in a prison until the fall of the Bastille moment.  But hard to tell what he's going to do if there's a revolution. 

I think Leo lived to

(a) provide a reason for Bayaz to be upset with Orso

(b) drag out the dynamic between Orso and Savine

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This might have been my least favorite JA book.

Cons - I often asked myself which characters I cared about, and why, while reading. Leo and Savine especially, given how stupid their decisions in this book are. Broad is just incredibly boring. Don't care about him at all. 

I found myself skimming or entirely skipping entire battle sequences.

I literally eye rolled when Glotka just resigned and left. The dude was pulling all the strings, openly even, and he just quits and is wheeled out? Without so much as debriefing his hand picked successor? No fucking way. 

Pros - Both the exploding engine and the Rikke "this hasnt happened yet" chapters were very well written and constructed.

Orso is one of the better characters in the entire series. 

 

Questions - 

Did Rikke lose the power of her Long Eye in the second half of the book? Seemed unclear to me if that was the case. There isn't a mention of her using it in her later chapters, unless I missed it. 

Found myself hoping Grost would intervene at some point in a way that benefitted Finree. Did anyone else feel this way?

I did a re-reading of every single JA book in the series, in preparation for this book, which i quite enjoyed. Shame this one left me feeling so very meh. 

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5 hours ago, Relic said:

This might have been my least favorite JA book.

Cons - I often asked myself which characters I cared about, and why, while reading. Leo and Savine especially, given how stupid their decisions in this book are. Broad is just incredibly boring. Don't care about him at all. 

I found myself skimming or entirely skipping entire battle sequences.

I literally eye rolled when Glotka just resigned and left. The dude was pulling all the strings, openly even, and he just quits and is wheeled out? Without so much as debriefing his hand picked successor? No fucking way. 

Pros - Both the exploding engine and the Rikke "this hasnt happened yet" chapters were very well written and constructed.

Orso is one of the better characters in the entire series. 

 

Questions - 

Did Rikke lose the power of her Long Eye in the second half of the book? Seemed unclear to me if that was the case. There isn't a mention of her using it in her later chapters, unless I missed it. 

Found myself hoping Grost would intervene at some point in a way that benefitted Finree. Did anyone else feel this way?

I did a re-reading of every single JA book in the series, in preparation for this book, which i quite enjoyed. Shame this one left me feeling so very meh. 

Same, bruh.

I was a lot more forgiving of Savine's actions due to her mental et emotional state [due to Valbek, not her pregnancy] during my read. Besides being invested in Orso as a character, however, I really only gave a sheesh about Rikke [et Isern, Shivers, and Clover, with the goings on in the North.

Yoru's Inuyasha bit was a moment [or something] but hey, at least he wasn't wielding the Divider.   

 

Overall, I was likewise underwhelmed.   

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5 hours ago, Relic said:

Did Rikke lose the power of her Long Eye in the second half of the book? Seemed unclear to me if that was the case. There isn't a mention of her using it in her later chapters, unless I missed it. 

No, she chose to destroy her normal eye, the right eye, and thus kept the power of the Long Eye in her left eye, somewhat constrained by the runes to not kill her. When Stour and his buddies show up in Uffrith for the Dogman's funeral, she makes some nasty predictions, including Greenway's death over water which then happens in the final chapter.

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A few thoughts:

1) I’m pretty sure that one of Rikke’s vision was the house of the maker collapsing;

2) Any thoughts of why Bayaz went to visit Zacharus and Cawneil? I’ve read a post on Reddit that stated he might have gone there to ask them to hunt down Ferro and the seed for some reason. Not sure if I believe that.

3) I’m wishfully thinking that a rift to the other side is opened and that is the eye in the sky that Rikke has a vision about;

4) I could absolutely see the other side being opened and magic coming back but only after Bayaz’s death;

5) Any possibility that Zuri is actually Ferro and not Ishri? Maybe not because I took the rip in Zuri’s clothes and the blood splattered all around it as being a sign of being an eater but Ferro is pretty violent as well;

6) If the Breakers Great Change is supernatural in nature and does lead us back into the House of the Maker, what is the possibility of Yulwei still being alive?

7) I don’t buy Glotka writing a book about fencing in retirement. Pike had worked with him so long. Maybe Glotka is pulling Pike’s strings. He certainly hates Bayaz. If that’s the case though, I don’t buy the Great Change is supernatural. 
 

8) Was Clover’s betrayal of Stout communicated to Rikke ahead of time? I didn’t quite understand if it was.

 

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1 hour ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

2) Any thoughts of why Bayaz went to visit Zacharus and Cawneil? I’ve read a post on Reddit that stated he might have gone there to ask them to hunt down Ferro and the seed for some reason. Not sure if I believe that.

Wasn't there trouble between them in last book? I'm not sure 'visit' is the right word. Maybe he's gone to make sure they're still in line.

1 hour ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

5) Any possibility that Zuri is actually Ferro and not Ishri? Maybe not because I took the rip in Zuri’s clothes and the blood splattered all around it as being a sign of being an eater but Ferro is pretty violent as well;

Doesn't Ferro have golden eyes, since she has demon blood? And then there are the brothers. I doubt Ferro has any, or she would call anyone a brother.

1 hour ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

8) Was Clover’s betrayal of Stout communicated to Rikke ahead of time? I didn’t quite understand if it was.

I think Rikke communicated with Clover what should be done via Hardbread, the old guy she sent as her envoy. My guess is Hardbread observed Clover to see how loyal he really is to Stour (or maybe Rikke had a vision about Clover) and then Hardbread let Clover know that the battle was going to be a defeat, and there's opportunity for revenge against Stour. Then Clover did the rest. That being said, there does seem to be some fast messenger communication, like the letter Orso got from Rikke.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

.

I think Rikke communicated with Clover what should be done via Hardbread, the old guy she sent as her envoy. My guess is Hardbread observed Clover to see how loyal he really is to Stour (or maybe Rikke had a vision about Clover) and then Hardbread let Clover know that the battle was going to be a defeat, and there's opportunity for revenge against Stour. Then Clover did the rest. That being said, there does seem to be some fast messenger communication, like the letter Orso got from Rikke.

In ALH Shiver's and Clover discuss having a chat later as well.  I just reread it and now working through TWP again trying to figure out what I missed.

 

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1 hour ago, SkynJay said:

In ALH Shiver's and Clover discuss having a chat later as well.  I just reread it and now working through TWP again trying to figure out what I missed.

 

Yes, I remember thinking of that while reading about Clover's actions.

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I think Bayaz still has the seed (it was last seen in its box under Sulphur's arm at the end of LAoK).

As well has Ferro having no brothers, I don't see her having either the social & organisational skills or the patience to be Yuri. Also it appears that with the disappearance of Khalul his Eaters may have become free agents. So Yuri, while obviously an Eater, may perhaps have no particular secret agenda.

I agree that Glotka went into retirement way too quietly and is likely up to something.

I also agree that Clover must have been in communication with Rikke and probably Shivers, but I don't think that there were any clues to that in TWP.

Orso did seem to grow in statue a great deal in this book and is now effectively the actual ruler of the Union, not just a figurehead. I wonder what Bayaz will make of that when he gets back.

I did like the way that Leo's and Stour's fates mirrored each other at the end of TWP.

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Finished up last night. I enjoyed the book but agree with others that the first half was a bit of a drag while the second half was really good. Orso, Vick and Rikke's chapters were easily the best - some excellent character work for those three. Broad's were by far the weakest with Clover's coming in a close second. I found myself eventually just skimming Broad's chapters and I doubt I missed anything worthwhile while Clover's chapters were pretty much a rehash from ALH.

I hope Joe has a good arc planned for Leo otherwise I'm not sure what the point was in keeping him alive if he's just going to be a bit part player or continue just being a puppet. Savine was utterly despicable and if there were any justice in that world, she would have been doing a little dance at the end of a rope the second after she gives birth....but there isn't so she won't. I agree that she isn't nearly as smart as she thinks she is - Vick mentions something along those lines and Glokta had warned her that politics is a very different beast compared to business. I also had a feeling from ALH that Glokta might have been helping along her investments but I like the suggestion made upthread that it was Jezal ensuring her investments succeed out of guilt which would also explain businesses failing so spectacularly after his death. That made Savine think she's some kind of prodigy but in truth she isn't any smarter that her rival Selest dan Heugen.

A bit disappointed with the reveal of Pike being the Weaver. Maybe Joe has a surprise there. Glokta pulling the strings would be better coz I don't want him to just meekly retire into obscurity. Although I was hoping that Sulfur would end up being the Weaver - Malmer had said that he didn't really see the Weaver's face but was then cut off when Pike entered the room. Pike's burned face is the most distinctive thing about him so I was sure that Malmer was about to mention different coloured eyes - Sulfur is regularly described as being utterly nondescript except for his eyes. Plus, even though Sulfur is of the Order of the Magi now, I get the impression that Bayaz still sees him as a mere servant and errand boy. Thought there would be some disgruntlement there and Bayaz's long time apprentice being the architect of his downfall would be sweet.

Zuri is the East Wind. The tightly bound bandage(s) and having suffered no injuries whatsoever from a nearby cannon exploding has to be a dead giveaway. Should've just confirmed it in this book.

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5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Well jeez. I LOVED this one. Now to read seven pages of people who it looks like didn’t. A pox upon you! :p

I'm with you. Best book I've read this year. Top 3 JA. Currently I would go -

BSC, TTWP, TLAOK. 

 

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I'd say that, barring a few exceptions, the vast majority in this thread did enjoy the book rather than 7 pages of people moaning about it. However, there are valid criticisms raised. Broad, for instance, is a very bland character - he doesn't provide any wit, humour (dark or otherwise) or any insightful observations whatsoever. Also, Caurib. What's up with that? The Shanka can raise the dead now apparently which was never ever hinted at at any point in the series. Any old witch could have worked just as well.

The absence of the Union's fleet was a pretty big omission as well - earlier in the book the Lord Admiral had mentioned that the Styrians are building new ships with cannons whereas the Union fleet is in poor condition due to lack of investment. However, the fleet still exists and the Crown had forewarning and were able to prepare - an aging fleet with proper warships and personnel trained in naval battle would still have crushed the main body of the rebel forces before they even set foot in Midderland. No good reason was given as to why the Union navy sat on the sidelines.

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