The Trouble With Peace by Joe Abercrombie [SPOILER THREAD]

[mormont]

Yes, we get confirmation in the text that Glokta hired Zuri. I'd have to go look up the exact quote, but it's established.

It would be astonishingly bold for Glokta to have killed Jezal while Bayaz was in Adua. The risk of discovery is significant and all would be lost if that happened. What if Bayaz had decided to look into the death himself, or had Sulfur do it instead of Glokta? You'd need a very strong reason to do it. Jezal isn't that popular. Nowhere near. In fact, Orso realises that his father was under constant pressure trying to cope as King.

Also, there's the exchange I noted above, and the final words of 'A Little Hatred', at Jezal's deathbed:

Quote

 

He [Orso] felt a heavy hand on his shoulder, more grasping than comforting, and turned to see the First of the Magi standing beside him. He almost had the ghost of a smile at the corner of his mouth.

'Long live the King,' said Bayaz.

 

Strong suggestions that Bayaz is not unhappy with the turn of events - nor surprised by it.

One theory might be that it's Bayaz who's undermining the throne. Maybe he's decided a new age needs a new form of government? One he still controls, of course. But one that satisfies the people that their concerns have been heard and they have a stake in the business of ruling.

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, mormont said:

Strong suggestions that Bayaz is not unhappy with the turn of events - nor surprised by it.

One theory might be that it's Bayaz who's undermining the throne. Maybe he's decided a new age needs a new form of government? One he still controls, of course. But one that satisfies the people that their concerns have been heard and they have a stake in the business of ruling.

I feel like after ALH, the most popular theory was that Bayaz was behind Jezal's death.  The problem is that the events of the second book really don't support that.  If Bayaz wanted a new form of government, why did he just bugger off?  It's hard to make it add up.

I agree that Glokta killing Jezal while Bayaz is around is risky, although I'm not sure it's prohibitively so.  Sulfur and Bayaz are not detectives, that is very much the Inquisition's job.  In the event that Bayaz sniffed foul play, would Glokta even be on his list of suspects? 

[mormont]

3 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I feel like after ALH, the most popular theory was that Bayaz was behind Jezal's death.  The problem is that the events of the second book really don't support that.  If Bayaz wanted a new form of government, why did he just bugger off?  It's hard to make it add up.

I agree that Glokta killing Jezal while Bayaz is around is risky, although I'm not sure it's prohibitively so.  Sulfur and Bayaz are not detectives, that is very much the Inquisition's job.  In the event that Bayaz sniffed foul play, would Glokta even be on his list of suspects? 

Well, really the main reason I think Jezal's death is fishy is Bayaz' reactions. If we take those away - as we must if someone else is responsible, and Bayaz doesn't suspect - there's no real reason to think that Glokta or anyone else killed him, and he didn't just die. So for me, that's a pretty moot question.

But yes, of course Glokta would be on the list of suspects if Bayaz were suspicious. Bayaz isn't the trusting type.

Bayaz has to deal with his troublesome siblings regardless of who, if anyone, killed Jezal so that's no mystery.

[The hairy bear]

On 4/6/2021 at 12:11 AM, mormont said:

Speaking of Savine, the main complaint in this thread appears to be that her decision to go along with the rebellion is too impulsive. But Savine was always impulsive: her decision to turn down the pumps was made on impulse. And her experiences in Valbeck, and the associated PTSD - for that's what she seems to have - would make her much more so. In fact I buy a lot of Savine's arc in this book because of that depiction. I don't have PTSD, but some people in my life do, and yeah, it makes sense to me.

I don't think the problem is Savine acting impulsively, or even carelessly. I agree that this is part of her character traits, and as it has been said before, her previous successes may have more to do with Glokta's or Jezal's influence than her own capabilities.

But her character had been defined as a woman who loved and admired both her father and Orso. Having her not only rebelling against them, but deciding that they have to be executed is far too extreme. It's not a decision that we see her having doubts about, or showing remorse, or conflicting her in any way. And I think that makes her a poor character. Savine was one of my favorite POV's in the first book, but in this second she no longer felt like a real person but a plot device. She should have been given more justification to turn against their loved ones.

On 4/6/2021 at 12:11 AM, mormont said:

Even if Bayaz had recruited her somehow (not beyond him), Glokta would not place Bayaz' agent with his daughter without warning her at some point. No, Ishri has to be an initiative of Glokta's own, perhaps in allegiance with Khalul or someone else, and that means Glokta has a plan. And that means he's almost certainly in cahoots with Pike. Glokta could even be the Weaver... except that doesn't fit with Rikke's vision. Is Rikke's vision of Bayaz, and the weaver/Weaver thing just a red herring? Doesn't feel satisfactory. Is Khalul coincidentally bald and rich, just like Bayaz? Also feels flimsy in a narrative sense. You don't hide relevant facts from readers like that in this type of foreshadowing. That's not good storytelling.

I wholly agree with all your points here. In fact, while I have found both ALH and TTWP great books, my final evaluation of them will greatly depend on how will all these hanging threads be resolved in the final book. I'm not going to be happy if Glokta has just retired to write books, or there's no additional plot twist to Pyke being the Weaver.

The fact that Joe has been able to write the complete trilogy before publishing the first book should give us hope. He knew what he was doing when he include the weaver in Rikke's vision. Even if it seems that he has wrote himself into a corner, this is something that he would have edited out if he felt that he was not able to life to the expectations it creates.

[The hairy bear]

And by the way, we've got a cover for the Wisdom of Crowds!

Leo's banner confirms what we all suspected: he'll become the figurehead of the rebels, and Orso is going to regret his mercifulness.

[Garlan the Gallant]

How close to the publication date will the signed Waterstones edition be able to be purchased? I seem to remember the other two available for purchase well in advance of publication but can't seem to find this on Waterstones website now.

[SeanF]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:00 AM, The hairy bear said:

And by the way, we've got a cover for the Wisdom of Crowds!

Leo's banner confirms what we all suspected: he'll become the figurehead of the rebels, and Orso is going to regret his mercifulness.

In the world that Joe has created, no good deed goes unpunished, no act of charity is unresented.

[Werthead]

Some minor controversy. Apparently the designer of the cover "borrowed" the design from the WarCraft movie, which was pointed out by fans on Twitter. They hastily redesigned the design so it's less of a ripoff.

That was odd.

[A True Kaniggit]

Rikke does rhyme with Pricker right?

Not Picky. Not Tricky. Not Sticky. 
 

She acts like it’s pronounced Ricky in the second book for some reason. 

[Veltigar]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:21 AM, Garlan the Gallant said:

How close to the publication date will the signed Waterstones edition be able to be purchased? I seem to remember the other two available for purchase well in advance of publication but can't seem to find this on Waterstones website now.

I would be interested in this as well. So far the signed copy was always a nice present to myself  

[Rhom]

14 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Rikke does rhyme with Pricker right?

Not Picky. Not Tricky. Not Sticky. 
 

She acts like it’s pronounced Ricky in the second book for some reason. 

I never bought Joe's explanation on it based on lines even in the first book.  They teased her by calling her "Sticky Rikke" when she would have a seizure and soil herself.

[jurble]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:48 PM, Werthead said:

Some minor controversy. Apparently the designer of the cover "borrowed" the design from the WarCraft movie, which was pointed out by fans on Twitter. They hastily redesigned the design so it's less of a ripoff.

That was odd.

Is the one in the linked Tweet the old or the redesigned one?  Because it still looks like the banner of Stormwind. 

[Werthead]

52 minutes ago, jurble said:

Is the one in the linked Tweet the old or the redesigned one?  Because it still looks like the banner of Stormwind. 

That's the old one, they've changed it.

[Nictarion]

 

[unJon]

2 hours ago, Nictarion said:

 

So there’s the Owl! On an axe. I’m too exhausted to guess at that clue. 

[mormont]

The owl on an axe basically confirms that the Owl is Broad. He has an axe and lightning tattoo, and uses an axe in several scenes.

[Veltigar]

That's a very ugly cover design

[unJon]

3 hours ago, mormont said:

The owl on an axe basically confirms that the Owl is Broad. He has an axe and lightning tattoo, and uses an axe in several scenes.

Was just coming back to post this as I’m now awake. Nice. Called it!

[The hairy bear]

Are you sure? The other candidate for being the owl is typically Rikke, and the axe is a weapon that has always been identified with the North...

[Corvinus85]

I think that axe is supposed to be a headsman's axe. We also see all the broken chains and machinery around it. I would not associate the axe with the North.