US Politics- Roger Stoned to Death

[Darzin]

3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

He earned the epithet deporter in Chief, padding his stats by implementing fingerprinting and recording of people caught crossing the border and being immediately returned, hither to they were not recorded in deportation stats, methinks he did that to look like a hard arse on immigration and not to take a more humane approach to desperate people trying to find a better life for themselves. When it comes to undocumented immigrants I get the impression that the only difference between Democrat administrations and Republican ones is that the Democrats wear a velvet glove over its mailed fist.

Is any of this  bad thing? I get that ICE under Trump has turned into   shitshow of human rights abuses and should probably be gotten rid of. But I don't think the idea of deporting people who are not allowed to be here is inherently racist or wrong. Every country in the world deports foreign nationals they find in their borders without a visa. I think objecting to this as some great secret is naive. Of course  a democratic administration is going to enforce the countries borders that's literally one of the core functions of government, they should do that. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

You're looking at every chance to shoot Biden in the back, even if Trump appears to be way more guilty of something that only vaguely touches Biden. 

At this point I think you really do want him to lose, just like it seemed like you wanted Clinton to lose four years ago. You attack Democrats way more than you attack Republicans, and it's rarely constructive. And furthermore, you attack them because they don't back things, that, let me clear my throat, ARE NEVER FUCKING GOING TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW. You're politics are that of Captain Ahab's, and liberals writ large are your crew.

Lol. I wanted Clinton to lose four years ago? You're obviously making shit up. I joined local canvasing for her. When my mail in ballot never came and I couldn't get it replaced, I walked my happy ass over to the church and waited in line to vote for her. But yeah, I must hated her. You're delusional. You think you have the right answers to this whole political fiasco our community country is in and dismiss anyone who disagrees as "purists." You use ad hominem attacks to prove your point, which I guess is that we should never fight for something because ITS NEVER GOING THE HAPPEN. I can't even be upset with you, I truly feel bad for you and the space you've carved out for yourself.

I don't have to like Biden, I'm pretty sure Bernie never commanded us drones to do so. 

And yeah, I attack Democrats more because they're supposed to be the party of the left which I am a member of. Why the hell would I attack Republicans? I hate them no matter what. I kind of expect something from the Dems. At least minimal effort. 

And I'm super damned worried that Biden is going to lose. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Lol. I wanted Clinton to lose four years ago? You're obviously making shit up. I joined local canvasing for her. When my mail in ballot never came and I couldn't get it replaced, I walked my happy ass over to the church and waited in line to vote for her. But yeah, I must hated her. You're delusional.

You have also screamed and moaned for years how unfair everything is, and how nobody should trust the system. Without merit. You're the exact person who bitches about everything than takes zero ownership that said bitching might have dissuaded people from voting. 

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You think you have the right answers to this whole political fiasco our community country is in and dismiss anyone who disagrees as "purists." You use ad hominem attacks to prove your point, which I guess is that we should never fight for something because ITS NEVER GOING THE HAPPEN. I can't even be upset with you, I truly feel bad for you and the space you've carved out for yourself.

Throw a rock at the sun and prove to me you can hit it. Until then, quit with your bullshit. AOC even admitted it was such. 

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And yeah, I attack Democrats more because they're supposed to be the party of the left which I am a member of. Why the hell would I attack Republicans? I hate them no matter what. I kind of expect something from the Dems. At least minimal effort. 

And I'm super damned worried that Biden is going to lose. 

So: 

1. Attack Democrats

2. Ignore Republicans

3. Fear Democrats might lose.

Jesus fucking Christ you are bad at strategy.

[karaddin]

I am again not commenting on the specific Reade accusations here, as I was not the last time this came up and I made the same request. Please think about how your comments can come across to other people in the thread when responding to someone raising the issue of sexual assault even when you have decided the specific accusation in question is likely without merit. I have no idea whether that poster is genuinely concerned about it, or a troll, but I can promise you that if I was a victim of sexual assault then all the sneering and mockery of that poster for bringing this up and the quibbling about technical definitions comes across as 100% exactly the same kind of dismissal as you see from the right and I would not feel at all welcome here.

I would very much like to think that none of you who came across that way actually think that way, so please reconsider how you talk about it and make more of an attempt to divorce your mockery of a person you've decided is a troll from responding to allegations.

[All Cats Are Bad]

3 hours ago, Triskele said:

There's another angle which is Trump.  

 

I mean this as no comment on the Dems/Biden/Read topic whatsover and only that Trump is that powerful an argument.  

No don't get me wrong, I'll take a liberal rapist over a fascist one. I'm almost certainly going to vote for Biden, but it is fucking hypocritical as shit the way a lot of Democrats in the public eye have dropped the #MeToo act like a bad habit as soon as it was inconvenient. I don't think anybody really cared about the Access Hollywood tape or what Brett Kavanaugh might have done in college. They just cared about their own reproductive rights, the environment, their wallets, which is fair, Republicans are only hostile to this country, but the concern was never really about women or the victims of sexual violence. If I come off as angry that's why.

[mormont]

[mod] Absolutely endorse the post by karaddin above. and would want to also ask that people dial down the personal remarks and hyped up rhetoric on both sides. Cool down or you may be given an enforced cooling off period. [/mod]

[All Cats Are Bad]

 

I wasn't trying to upset anybody, I'm sorry if I did.

[Week]

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol. Do you believe half the shit you write in these threads? Biden isn't some hero, especially here. I'm not sure a regular poster said he was their first choice.....

No, nobody did yet he multiple times referred to me as a Biden-stan. When he isn't in his doom-and-gloom Demokkkrats moods there is actually value and sense - however those days seem to be few and far between.

4 hours ago, karaddin said:

I would very much like to think that none of you who came across that way actually think that way, so please reconsider how you talk about it and make more of an attempt to divorce your mockery of a person you've decided is a troll from responding to allegations.

When you come into a thread by repeating old allegations which already created a number of dust ups in this thread without any new information, analysis, or anything resembling a good faith debate then that person is trolling the thread. If a discussion of months old allegations needs to be rehashed then a new thread ought to be made. This thread moves quickly with dissemination and discussion of new news - any time it falls back into relitigation of 2016, punching Nazis, etc. the thread eats itself for days. That's my point in calling out and ignoring that behavior.

 

[sologdin]

take a liberal rapist over a fascist one.

the key consideration.  it''s not a popularity contest wherein the personality of the winner is ratified; it is an installation of a large set of personnel with near plenary authority to enact policy within their respective bailiwicks.

trump disrupts policy debates with personality trifles--he is a quantum singularity of distraction. i therefore urge in the strongest possible terms those on the left who are focusing exclusively on personality to rethink that focus in light of the possibility of achieving nothing of their preferred policy objectives.

[karaddin]

39 minutes ago, Week said:

No, nobody did yet he multiple times referred to me as a Biden-stan. When he isn't in his doom-and-gloom Demokkkrats moods there is actually value and sense - however those days seem to be few and far between.

When you come into a thread by repeating old allegations which already created a number of dust ups in this thread without any new information, analysis, or anything resembling a good faith debate then that person is trolling the thread. If a discussion of months old allegations needs to be rehashed then a new thread ought to be made. This thread moves quickly with dissemination and discussion of new news - any time it falls back into relitigation of 2016, punching Nazis, etc. the thread eats itself for days. That's my point in calling out and ignoring that behavior.

 

My point has literally nothing to do with the individuals involved. Be mindful of who might be reading your words and how they might be hurt by it if you want to be a conscientious person. Or embrace being an asshole that unintentionally hurts people but doesn't care. I really can't make you do anything, but I thought Id try asking the thread generally - I sure as fuck didn't quote you and it wasn't directed at anyone in specific.

[Gaston de Foix]

I'm reading Rage, Woodward's new and much-discussed book.  I had agreed with Frum's take-down of Woodward's prior book Fear : https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/bob-woodwards-fear-trump/573067/ and also with the criticisms of Rage by reviewers in WaPo and NYT but I wanted to read it myself. 

So far the most striking scene has been Trump telling Lindsay Graham re coordination with the Russians:  I did many bad things, but not this.  And Graham saying to Trump I agree with you on both counts.  You can't collude with your own government let alone the Russian government.  

The latter part is a common defense Graham was touting but the first part is somewhat intriguing.  Trump being Trump there's zero inherent truth-value to any statement he makes, but I would still like to know what bad things he had in mind.

The book so far has been Mattis, Tillerson and Coats' defense of their reputations to Washington elites even as they cower in fear from an angry tweet.  If the three of them had any balls they would go on Chris Wallace together and tell Fox viewers what they told Woodward about Trump's unfitness for the presidency.  

[Week]

19 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I really can't make you do anything, but I thought Id try asking the thread generally - I sure as fuck didn't quote you and it wasn't directed at anyone in specific.

Noted.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

35 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

If the three of them had any balls they would go on Chris Wallace together and tell Fox viewers what they told Woodward about Trump's unfitness for the presidency.  

It wouldn't matter.

[All Cats Are Bad]

Something that I see happening a lot lately that really frustrates me, and I will again remind the thread I'm planning to vote for Biden, are these neoliberal types who come at me and say 'Well, I really want the same end-state that you do!' but voted for Elizabeth Warren or Pete B. or somebody in the primary, then comes at Lefties with this 'A vote for third parties is a vote for Trump!' crap.

The fact is a vote for anybody other than Bernie Sanders in the primary was a vote for the centrist arm of the DNC. I find it very disingenuous for people who voted their own conscience/interests when their vote could have made a difference to turn around and demand differently of me now that they need my vote to preserve their values.

[IheartIheartTesla]

The USC Dornsife numbers are down to Biden +7 today after being in the double digits, so I imagine there has been some real tightening in the race. Might just be a temporary blip, we'll see.

[Week]

Just now, IheartIheartTesla said:

The USC Dornsife numbers are down to Biden +7 today after being in the double digits, so I imagine there has been some real tightening in the race. Might just be a temporary blip, we'll see.

Will be interesting to see if this Town Hall has any effect. Faux News is already spinning it as an ambush. Ambushed by questions by actual Americans. In a swing state.

[Larry of the Lawn]

7 minutes ago, SaltyGnosis said:

Something that I see happening a lot lately that really frustrates me, and I will again remind the thread I'm planning to vote for Biden, are these neoliberal types who come at me and say 'Well, I really want the same end-state that you do!' but voted for Elizabeth Warren or Pete B. or somebody in the primary, then comes at Lefties with this 'A vote for third parties is a vote for Trump!' crap.

The fact is a vote for anybody other than Bernie Sanders in the primary was a vote for the centrist arm of the DNC. I find it very disingenuous for people who voted their own conscience/interests when their vote could have made a difference to turn around and demand differently of me now that they need my vote to preserve their values.

Anybody you vote for, a bunch of assholes will vote for too.  It's inevitable even if you're just voting on whether to get pizza vs mexican with family and friends.  Unless maybe your family and your friends are better people than me and mine.  A lot of things about Biden and his supporters chap my ass too, but I'm voting for him anyway.  And I'm also skeptical about harm reduction over the long term as a general principle.  My plan is to vote for the mofo and bank for down ballot progressives.  Advocate for jungle primaries in progressive states or ranked choice voting.  Call your shitty centrist reps and tell them what you want.

[S John]

9 minutes ago, Week said:

Will be interesting to see if this Town Hall has any effect. Faux News is already spinning it as an ambush. Ambushed by questions by actual Americans. In a swing state.

I couldn’t stand to watch more than a couple of minutes, but I figured it fell a little flat when I had to scroll quite a bit to find any mention of it on foxnews.com

[Week]

Kanye West's third party (the Birthday Party) campaign continues with support from Trumpworld in hopes to siphon votes from Biden.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/kanye-west-president-2020.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

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Even those around the hip-hop artist struggle to explain his motivations for a presidential candidacy that some Democrats worry could siphon votes from Joe Biden. 

...

Kanye West wants to bring back prayer in schools, give more government support to religious groups and has even asked his campaign staff to refrain from “fornicating” outside of marriage, according to people aiding his candidacy.

...

An inescapable element of Mr. West’s candidacy is his bipolar disorder, which he has spoken about in the past. His wife, Kim Kardashian West, opened up about it for the first time days after Mr. West’s only campaign appearance, in South Carolina, during which he broke down crying. Writing on Instagram, she called him a “brilliant but complicated person” who has to deal with “pressure and isolation that is heightened by his bipolar disorder.”

Because a variety of allies and supporters of President Trump are working on the ground to advance his campaign, many Democrats view his candidacy as a dirty trick by Republicans, a notion Mr. West has rejected. Still, in a year in which the president is working to undermine confidence in the election, Mr. West’s candidacy is one more point of uncertainty. And many Republicans, including Mr. Trump, appear confident he will siphon votes from Joseph R. Biden Jr., the Democratic nominee, though his appeal could be blunted by some of his conservative positions.

It may backfire, considering his theocratic-adjacent beliefs are more akin to Trump-Pence supporters -- still the intent is to further split Biden's vote with ineffective third parties.

The Trump campaign will throw anything at the wall - from barely legal to overtly illegal - to maintain power and control to continue the grift, install 1-2 more Supreme Court Justices, while continuing to give power to white supremacists like Stephen Miller and cronies like DeVos, DeJoy, etc. (they likely fall in the latter category as well)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

28 minutes ago, Week said:

Will be interesting to see if this Town Hall has any effect. Faux News is already spinning it as an ambush. Ambushed by questions by actual Americans. In a swing state.

I just saw the clip of him lying to a woman's face about his attempts to remove protections for people with pre-existing conditions after she told him she'd die if that happened....sickening. 

And his supporters say they and he are the ones that own the moral high ground......