Possible life discovered on Venus?

[Free Northman Reborn]

The news is still under embargo, but depending on how today’s press release plays out, this may deserve its own thread.

There are rumours that scientists from MIT and the Royal Astronomical society have identified a gas in Venus’s atmosphere that according to known science can only be produced either in a lab or by living organisms.

Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

[baxus]

Wasn't Venus deemed uninhabitable due to high temperatures?

Quick google search came up with:

Venus' atmosphere consists mainly of carbon dioxide, with clouds of sulfuric acid droplets. The thick atmosphere traps the Sun's heat, resulting in surface temperatures higher than 880 degrees Fahrenheit (470 degrees Celsius). The atmosphere has many layers with different temperatures. At the level where the clouds are, about 30 miles up from the surface, it's about the same temperature as on the surface of the Earth.

If there are life forms that can survive and thrive in such conditions then we're in for some rather interesting scientific breakthroughs, to say the least.

[Derfel Cadarn]

It’s 2020. The gas is probably from the factories building the Venusian warfleet intended to invade Earth.

[Mosi Mynn]

7 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It’s 2020. The gas is probably from the factories building the Venusian warfleet intended to invade Earth.

Bring it on.  It might be the only thing that can save us.

[Liffguard]

8 minutes ago, baxus said:

Wasn't Venus deemed uninhabitable due to high temperatures?

Quick google search came up with:

 

 

If there are life forms that can survive and thrive in such conditions then we're in for some rather interesting scientific breakthroughs, to say the least.

Higher altitudes of the Venusian atmosphere have more hospitable temperatures and pressures.

[baxus]

35 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

Higher altitudes of the Venusian atmosphere have more hospitable temperatures and pressures.

Obviously, but what are the chances of intelligent lifeforms evolving at higher altitudes only?

EDIT:

Unless it's some kind of a colony, or something like that.

[Free Northman Reborn]

2 minutes ago, baxus said:

Obviously, but what are the chances of intelligent lifeforms evolving at higher altitudes only?

EDIT:

Unless it's some kind of a colony, or something like that.

Firstly, this is most likely some misunderstood abiogenic process. Secondly, even if it is life, no one suggested intelligent life. It would be microbes only. 

[Relic]

2 hours ago, baxus said:

Obviously, but what are the chances of intelligent lifeforms evolving at higher altitudes only?

EDIT:

Unless it's some kind of a colony, or something like that.

What are the chances of intelligent life developing at lower altitudes? 

[Week]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

What are the chances of intelligent life developing at lower altitudes? 

It would be the first discovered in the universe. 

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Week said:

It would be the first discovered in the universe. 

Yup, eagerly awaiting that discovery. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

I'd quibble that the presence of phosphine on Venus is some sort of smoking gun for life. Its only suggestive (anything that can be produced in a lab on Earth should be reproducible elsewhere in the universe, particularly if you have high T or high P)

[Free Northman Reborn]

4 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I'd quibble that the presence of phosphine on Venus is some sort of smoking gun for life. Its only suggestive (anything that can be produced in a lab on Earth should be reproducible elsewhere in the universe, particularly if you have high T or high P)

Yep. Anyway, 3 hours to go to the press conference.

[S John]

Life has been found to be pretty ubiquitous on earth. Especially at the microbial level, organisms have been found in places previously thought to be unsurvivable due to one extreme or another on more than one occasion.

In the not so distant past (before we had the tech to discover the truth of Venus’ runaway greenhouse effect) it was commonly speculated that Venus was the prime candidate for extraterrestrial life in the solar system. Some thought it was covered in thick clouds because of lush planet-wide rainforests underneath. Wishful thinking.

I’m pretty much ignorant in the geological and climate history of Venus and exactly how long it has been a hellish landscape. But if given enough time to get started before things went south, it probably isn’t outside the realm of possibility that some form of microbial life has found a survivable niche and tenaciously cling to existence. At least based on what we know about microbes in extreme environments on earth. Would be an incredible discovery if there’s anything to it - even more so if you could determine if that life developed independently from anything on Earth.

[Toth]

3 hours ago, S John said:

I’m pretty much ignorant in the geological and climate history of Venus and exactly how long it has been a hellish landscape. But if given enough time to get started before things went south, it probably isn’t outside the realm of possibility that some form of microbial life has found a survivable niche and tenaciously cling to existence.

This article might be interesting about that: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/nasa-climate-modeling-suggests-venus-may-have-been-habitable

Though I must admit I think there is a bit of circular reasoning there. He says Venus was protected by a freakishly thick shield of clouds was generated by the heat accumulated during the insane 117 days long day, but at the other hand says that it would make the surface cooler than Earth's, so I would logically assume that the cloud shield would dissipate then. The only reasonable assumption would be that there would be a constant and rather drastic up and down in temperatures with massive rainfalls and intense heatwaves taking turns. I'm pretty sure that would make it very difficult for higher life forms to develop, but might pose an answer for the question how some microscopic life forms got swept up in the atmosphere and stayed there if there had been strong atmospheric 'tides' during its most lush era.

It's weird, really. Here I thought we would find life first on the poles of Mars or the oceans of Europa and Ganymede, the burning hellscape of Venus comes a bit out of the left field. I just read the paper and it admits that there might be some odd chemical reactions still possible they simply didn't think of due to our lack of knowledge about the vapors in Venus' atmosphere or its volcanic activity (they even say that phosphine gas has been observed to be naturally created in gas giants). So maybe it will turn out to be a fluke, but it's still interesting. They suggest a probe to take atmospheric samples to clear things up and such a fly-bye sounds to me like a fairly simple mission (as opposed to, say, drilling through kilometers of glacier...). We'll see I guess. XD

[a free shadow]

 

4 hours ago, S John said:

But if given enough time to get started before things went south, it probably isn’t outside the realm of possibility that some form of microbial life has found a survivable niche and tenaciously cling to existence. At least based on what we know about microbes in extreme environments on earth. 

That sounds just too reasonable!

It is most tempting just to use this to start working into a completely different direction, and look for another cause to the findings. Something fundamental in the structure and functioning of the universe, a new type of how things work, not just a new thing

[Corvinus85]

I just saw the news on Reuters https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-exploration-venus/potential-sign-of-alien-life-detected-on-inhospitable-venus-idUSKBN2652GO

As to whether or not Venus could be habitable, didn't a professor declare in the early 2000s that the closest conditions to Earth in the rest of the solar system can be found roughly 50 km above the surface of Venus? Mainly meaning reasonable temperature and pressure.

[Toth]

10 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I just saw the news on Reuters https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-exploration-venus/potential-sign-of-alien-life-detected-on-inhospitable-venus-idUSKBN2652GO

As to whether or not Venus could be habitable, didn't a professor declare in the early 2000s that the closest conditions to Earth in the rest of the solar system can be found roughly 50 km above the surface of Venus? Mainly meaning reasonable temperature and pressure.

I heard this as well. I think to remember to have heard a scientist say that if you built a floating city on Venus, you could technically even go outside just wearing an oxygen mask.

[Fez]

Is technology at the point where we could get a long-lasting probe onto the surface of Venus (maybe with some ballon-based atmospheric probe)? Or is the heat/pressure too much?

The Soviets sent a bunch of probes in the '60s-80s, but I think the longest any of them lasted on the surface was about an hour. Though, per Wikipedia, Vega 1 had a high altitude balloon probe that lasted almost two days.

 

[SpaceChampion]

27 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I just saw the news on Reuters https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-exploration-venus/potential-sign-of-alien-life-detected-on-inhospitable-venus-idUSKBN2652GO

As to whether or not Venus could be habitable, didn't a professor declare in the early 2000s that the closest conditions to Earth in the rest of the solar system can be found roughly 50 km above the surface of Venus? Mainly meaning reasonable temperature and pressure.

Yes.  This discovery of phosphine gas is in that same region of the atmosphere.  However every astrobiologist on my fb feed is rolling their eyes at this announcement.  There must be some abiogenic process we just don't understand.  Jumping to conclusions about life is way premature, and not worth getting excited over at this point.

[IheartIheartTesla]

And then there's this:

Quote

NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine on Twitter called the new findings “the most significant development yet in building the case for life off Earth.” Among missions that the U.S. space agency is currently considering is one that would send an atmospheric probe to Venus.

“It’s time to prioritize Venus,” Bridenstine wrote.

I wouldnt spend billions of dollars on such a lukewarm result. Maybe if we saw a bit more direct evidence like actual microbes, or even lipids, DNA/RNA strands etc.