Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ser Drewy

Controversy over transphobia in J.K Rowling's new book

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I've seen talk Terfs attack bisexuals basically make gays and lesbians dissociate with bisexuals.

Wait, *what*?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Similarly and this is why I referred to classism earlier our band of heroes are meant to be relatable everyman underdogs, socially, but every single person codes as middle class at least. Harry grows up in a cupboard under the stairs, yes, but within a few pages of the first book he's a millionaire. I get it's wish-fulfillment escapism but it's also playing hard into the idea that you can't get places without money. Even the Weasleys (and this is the bit that kinda bothers me because the rest is just a consequence of setting and the aim of the story but this one is a deliberate misrepresentation)- we're told they're poor, but their dad is a govermnent minister and they live in a massive house on its own land. They don't read poor, they read like a fun imitation of what poor is like. I'm not expecting incisive social commentary from HP, and the private-school setting made it intrinsically harder anyway, but there's not a hint of working-class in Harry Potter, not a sniff.

On the other hand, what would actual poverty look like in the Harry Potter universe? Given that everything but food can be conjured out of nowhere, any wizard with any source of income should be able to do pretty well for themselves. The rules of the setting make actual poverty, well, not impossible, but rare enough that the protagonists wouldn't be likely to come across it.

That being said, from what we see of young Snape's life, it doesn't look like his parents were flush with cash. He grew up in a cramped apartment in a derelict industrial area. The Gaunt family was also living on a sustenance minimum, or so it seemed - then again, none of them had a job. And if you want working class, look no further than Argus Filch, whom somebody somehow saw fit to do cleaning and maintenance of an enormous castle housing hundreds of kids, on his own, without the aid of magic. There's an implication there that he wouldn't be able to find work otherwise, so he has to stick with a job he hates. Not sure where Hagrid is on that spectrum. It appears he enjoys being groundskeeper, but he has to live in a single-room hut on school property and appears to be shunned by most people. Then there's also Lupin, who has to use the student train to travel to Hogwarts (by the way: why? Every new book appears to show a new mode of transport that would be much more convenient for him), wears only very worn clothes, and isn't shown to have more belongings than he can carry (then again, magical suitcases are very roomy).

Overall I'd say it's a bigger problem that none of the poor people portrayed in Harry Potter are shown as any form of sympathetic. Snape is an ass (and so were his parents), the Gaunts border on insane (poverty = insanity, that's a problematic portrayal), and Filch is disliked by everybody for good reason. Even the good guys with money issues seem to have got there by spending their money irresponsibly. Hagrid buys copious amounts of alcohol and occasionally a dangerous magical creature. Mr. Weasley fills his garage with trinkets and doodads while his kids all wear hand-me-downs. There's also a scene in Chamber of Secrets where Mrs. Weasley counts coins to make sure her kids can afford all the required curriculum books, while Mr. Weasley casually suggests getting a drink at the Leaky Cauldron with Hermione's parents. Lupin seems to be the exeption, as it's made explicit that he has problems finding a job due to his lycanthropy, and presumably lives by himself quite far away from other people.

A counterpoint is the question of whether there'd be room to depict actual poverty in the Harry Potter books. We spend all the time with Harry, who's either at boarding school or with the Weasleys. And while the Weasleys could have been shown in actual poverty - a couple of Squibs trying to raise nine children in some cramped apartment in a downtrodden industrial city, or something - their purpose in the story is also showing Harry (and by extension, the reader) what everyday life in a wizarding family looks like. To extensively portray anything but this middle-class life would require that Harry spent a lot of time with another family. We can assume that legitimate, non-self-inflicted poverty exists in the Harry Potter universe (again, to the degree that the setting allows), but there isn't really much time to openly show it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Wait, *what*?

Sorry I've seen some Terfs specifically gay ones rail against bisexuals as really just pretending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Sorry I've seen some Terfs specifically gay ones rail against bisexuals as really just pretending.

Engaging in biphobia attacks as part of the TERFian manifesto? That's a new one. It's like people forget there's a B in LGBTQIPA/LGBT+.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Sorry I've seen some Terfs specifically gay ones rail against bisexuals as really just pretending.

I don't think there is anything specific to Terfs about that opinion. My gay friends often say the same thing, maybe in jest but I think quite seriously. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Engaging in biphobia attacks as part of the TERFian manifesto? That's a new one. It's like people forget there's a B in LGBTQIPA/LGBT+.

Biphobia and Transphobia dovetail quite well in their philosophy, and unfortunately both are the easier targets for intra community exclusion. There has sure as hell been a lot of success in the online space of trying to rile up fighting between Lesbians and Bisexual women that's resulting in a ton of shit I hate from both sides. Of LGB people, bisexuals often have the worst mental health outcomes due to having a harder time fitting into both straight and queer communities due to exclusion and discrimination from both, and bisexual women have a crazy high level of abuse against them in relationships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I don't think there is anything specific to Terfs about that opinion. My gay friends often say the same thing, maybe in jest but I think quite seriously. 

*sigh*

It's 2020 and they still say stupid shit like that. Unfuckingbelievable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I would guess it really would be better that anyone commenting on the book should in fact actually read the book first. Who'd have thought that would be a debatable concept!

It's really, kinda weird to seem to couch saying ”Rowling is transphobic” as slander.

You might as well say Pat Robertson is homophobic.

It's not because the great evil sock Justice warriors on twitter said so independent of Rowlings continued statements in regards to trans people.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

I don't think there is anything specific to Terfs about that opinion. My gay friends often say the same thing, maybe in jest but I think quite seriously. 

Of course it's not exclusive to terfs. 

Biphobia is a real problem.

Among the lgbt community unfortunately.

One that some of the far religious right try to exploit to drive wedges within the community the same way by trying to get gays to distance themselves from trans people.

 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Biphobia and Transphobia dovetail quite well in their philosophy, and unfortunately both are the easier targets for intra community exclusion. There has sure as hell been a lot of success in the online space of trying to rile up fighting between Lesbians and Bisexual women that's resulting in a ton of shit I hate from both sides. Of LGB people, bisexuals often have the worst mental health outcomes due to having a harder time fitting into both straight and queer communities due to exclusion and discrimination from both, and bisexual women have a crazy high level of abuse against them in relationships.

That's pretty much why I stopped engaging with the queer community. You've identified all of my major grievances and summarised them all *beautifully* in a single paragraph. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, IlyaP said:

That's pretty much why I stopped engaging with the queer community. You've identified all of my major grievances and summarised them all *beautifully* in a single paragraph. 

There's still plenty to be gained as well, its all just very human. Good and bad. Not like I'm super social or anything though, I just soak the good up from the sidelines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, karaddin said:

There's still plenty to be gained as well, its all just very human. Good and bad. Not like I'm super social or anything though, I just soak the good up from the sidelines.

No disputing the good things. There is, however, only so much "bisexuals are deluded/not real/lying to themselves" etc., that can be tolerated (esp. given there's no evidence to support such claims). One is tempted to remind those who say such things of what the DSM said about homosexuality pre-1973. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

No disputing the good things. There is, however, only so much "bisexuals are deluded/not real/lying to themselves" etc., that can be tolerated (esp. given there's no evidence to support such claims). One is tempted to remind those who say such things of what the DSM said about homosexuality pre-1973. 

Yeah, don't have much time for that type either, certainly understand nopeing out of anywhere you hear that 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, polishgenius said:


Here it is on threadreader. It really is gargantuan, but the relevant analysis of the books themselves is early on.

Dang, now you got me staying up and enjoying Hal Duncan's turning HP on its ear instead of getting the sleep I need. You, sir, are a monster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/20/2020 at 3:41 AM, karaddin said:

There's still plenty to be gained as well, its all just very human. Good and bad. Not like I'm super social or anything though, I just soak the good up from the sidelines.

I think that's fair. 

There's ugliness in any community that could and should be addressed.

But having a sense of unity is necessary, I think to really combat a lot of the issues that effect all of the Lgbt community.

To make clear homophobia is a bigger and prevalent evil than someone being called such on twitter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

No such thing as bad publicity!

At least now people will read the book and decide if it’s transphobic. Maybe they can come on here and give their opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No such thing as bad publicity!

At least now people will read the book and decide if it’s transphobic. Maybe they can come on here and give their opinions.

Reading it now. Definitely not as innocent as the Spectator article suggests, but it’s not (so far) a scare piece on transgender people lurking in toilets to murder people. 
I’ll update when finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Reading it now. Definitely not as innocent as the Spectator article suggests, but it’s not (so far) a scare piece on transgender people lurking in toilets to murder people. 
I’ll update when finished.

Like most things in life, neither as clear cut as those with extreme views in either direction want them to be.

Is it any good? Enjoyed the others, cant beleive the length of it though. It's like a fantasy epic in page count. 

Edited by BigFatCoward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...