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Terry Goodkind has passed away


Wicked Woodpecker of West

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On the one hand yes, but on the other hand he was a bit touched. He got hold of GRRM's personal contact details (way before GRRM became super famous and paranoid about this stuff) and complained to him directly about the "conduct" of his fans. Some of his behaviour on forums including Wikipedia (where he waged a one-man edit war against dozens of people, insisting that Goodkind had sold more books than Jordan and Pratchett based purely on "Well, I talk to people") was off the chain, and I'm not surprised he was seen as a liability.

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Given the surprise on how old Goodkind was, I looked up the ages of over 30 fantasy authors who had popular books in the 1980s and 1990s and who are still living.

And Dennis McKiernan would definitely be the one needing the most "protection" because he is 88 years old. The only other one who came near to that is Piers Anthony at 86. Then we jump a whole decade to Terry Brooks, L. E. Modesitt, and Glen Cook, who are all 76. Elizabeth Moon is 75, much older than I would have thought.

Meanwhile Neil Gaiman is only 59 and Garth Nix 57, the only two still in their 50s among those I checked. 

 

Patrick Tilley, whose Amtrak Wars series was huge in the UK in the 1980s, is 95 (and, last I heard, was still keen to write a sequel trilogy to that series, but this seems unlikely now).

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2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

On the one hand yes, but on the other hand he was a bit touched. He got hold of GRRM's personal contact details (way before GRRM became super famous and paranoid about this stuff) and complained to him directly about the "conduct" of his fans. Some of his behaviour on forums including Wikipedia (where he waged a one-man edit war against dozens of people, insisting that Goodkind had sold more books than Jordan and Pratchett based purely on "Well, I talk to people") was off the chain, and I'm not surprised he was seen as a liability.

So what I know of the story, I know from Vedd, and it’s interesting to note that Vedd and Mystar had something of a fraught relationship. They both saw themselves as the gatekeeper to the Great Man, and so were in competition with each other. Additionally Vedd didn’t like the way Mystar pretended to speak for Terry. And Mystar absolutely did this. He would continually and shamelessly lie about passing on words directly from Goodkind, or otherwise pretend at having top secret/privileged/insider information. But according to Vedd Terry was well aware of Mystar’s activities, and didn’t really give much of a shit about any of it. Mystar was definitely a liability when it came time to clean up Terry’s image, but it was the speed and ease with which Terry jettisoned him, after years of tacitly endorsing his behavior, that was shocking. And FWIW, Vedd is certain that the allegations that Mystar impersonated Terry for interviews are completely false.

For those who never followed all the old Goodkind drama, it’s hard to overstate just how much this shit dominated Mystar’s life. The dude was at it all day every day on every platform you can think of. For him to be cut loose like that, especially after having just agreed to give up his website, must have been pretty devastating. Mystar was a loud, obnoxious, ghoulish prick, but he really did deserve better from Terry.

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Was Mystar the man who hit up our threads a few years back and was preaching the goodness of Goodkind?  Telling us stories of seeing his paintings and having the man tapping the signature on the corner rather than blurting out 'it was me' as a sign of his humility?

I picked up Goodkind in high school when my sister saw a dragon on the cover and thought I would like it.  It really was one of the first fantasy series I read, and I read all the way through the original series.  It wasn't until I had more fantasy under my belt and went to reread my old favorite that I soured on him.  He still had some of the best titles in the game (Faith of the Fallen, Blood of the Fold), and I think WFR is not completely horrible (in fact I kept my paperback out of nostalgia).

But over all I got much more lasting love from the threads around here.  I wish his family well, and can't ignore that there was a time his books meant something to me. 

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On 9/18/2020 at 11:45 PM, Myshkin said:

So what I know of the story, I know from Vedd, and it’s interesting to note that Vedd and Mystar had something of a fraught relationship. They both saw themselves as the gatekeeper to the Great Man, and so were in competition with each other. Additionally Vedd didn’t like the way Mystar pretended to speak for Terry. And Mystar absolutely did this. He would continually and shamelessly lie about passing on words directly from Goodkind, or otherwise pretend at having top secret/privileged/insider information. But according to Vedd Terry was well aware of Mystar’s activities, and didn’t really give much of a shit about any of it. Mystar was definitely a liability when it came time to clean up Terry’s image, but it was the speed and ease with which Terry jettisoned him, after years of tacitly endorsing his behavior, that was shocking. And FWIW, Vedd is certain that the allegations that Mystar impersonated Terry for interviews are completely false.

For those who never followed all the old Goodkind drama, it’s hard to overstate just how much this shit dominated Mystar’s life. The dude was at it all day every day on every platform you can think of. For him to be cut loose like that, especially after having just agreed to give up his website, must have been pretty devastating. Mystar was a loud, obnoxious, ghoulish prick, but he really did deserve better from Terry.

Oh my god

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Found extracts from the original post on sffworld.com (which no longer exists) in which Mystar started the whose shitshow by claiming that HBO had dropped GoT on the Hotlist:

Actually, I was talking to a friend at TOR today, the TV/mini-series deal for ASOIAF fell through. HBO decided not to take it and the production company was said to have discontinued with the option In other words, they backed out. I was truly looking forward to seeing how this would be adapted to cinema.

It is a pretty reliable source, but like any only time will tell

Hopefully someone else will be able to pick it up...

[...]

The problem is the breath and scope of the story line. Condensing that down into a project for the TV is not an easy task. That and the fact that there really is no demonstrable reason to the story line that woudl appeal to the masses... No hero figure..who doesn't get killed, to many random killings for no more than someone was in someones elses way...things like that. HBO kicked it out, but that doesn't mean another could take it and make it work...

[...]

No malace at all.

I was polite and quite frank.

While I understand it GRRM's GF may offer her opinion, we also have to understand her possable reluctance(sp) to let out the fact that it did in fact get dropped....and perhaps having dinner with several agents in New York and jabbering about projects and books my information could also be rhumor heard and passed along.

~shrugs~

So what?

I was simply stating what I was privy to. I also said I hoped it would be picked up....if in fact that was the case.

There is no need to insult or attack me for simply discusing my thoughts. We can be civilized and polite, or at least I can...

[...]

I was however in Vegas a few weeks ago at the convention, while bidding, discussion and other news was being bantied about, So I would guess my information is just as creditable, as I was specificly asking HBO, agents and the money reps...

~shrugs~

But thepoint is, I don't have to offer any proof... the proof will be know when it never happens.

~shrugs~

Or this on Westeros:

BUT ABC/Disney would not be denied. "We know a block buster when we see it"... This also is fleshed out in the aspect that even BEFORE any hype, trailers or much of anything, this series has been picked up in over 98% of the markets...again a record breaker, and stunning ABC/Disney.

All because this is a story about Hero's...TRUE heros!. Heroic people acting in a manor that underscores the true Nobility that is mankind. It proves what Goodkind has been telling us for over 15 years now... People want heros... TRUE Heros. This is the same thing Sam Raimi, Rob Tapert Ned Nallie, ABC and Disney all agree on... This is why you see something like George R R Martin's A song of Ice and Fire always failing by comparison, why it is still sitting on the shelf, why the screen play has had to have been rewritten several times already, and it is still sitting there... It has no true hero's and no honor for life... People want to feel good about their heros, they want Heros, they can believe in!!!

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Extracts from the lemmings of discord speech:

And as for "detractors" the 5 people at your westros board don't really count as "detractors", more along the lines of hecklers and gits. But I've got better things to do with my time than spend reading or interacting with people who are incapable of any kind of coherent thought. Attacking Goodkind for what they admire in GRRM or Bakker etc... sorry pot calling the kettle black simply doesn't warrant time from me. [...]

I've read many of your reviews for some time now. While I will admit you have wrangled a few interviews, they came not from
anything "you" did but rather you asking (most persistently I might add, so says the people offering these reviews) to do them and trying to sell yourself to the task. Mediocre at best. I've seen worse interviews, but I've seem much better as well. You seem to get hung up on "your view of things, from your perspective only", and not allowing that opposing views have any merit.
[...]

Yet, you not only lower your self by your close association with these trolls, but the quality of your work. You forget to remove yourself from a neutral standpoint and rather encourage the shtick. Bad form! I can only imagine that publishers getting excerpts of your behavior and lack of professional demeanor are going to be frowning at your so called ability to be fair and respectful. [...]

These poor pathetic people have no clue as to anything Goodkind is writing about. Faith of the Fallen in any poll out there is always 9 out of 10 top favorite of the series. That you and these lemmings of discord find it reprehensive is telling indeed. Telling everyone that you indeed have missed the whole point of the book as well as the series. No wonder you cannot tell good literature from mindless drivel. These people of Westros et al. read a paragraph, them proceed to eliminate anything they do not want to be there, and instead focus on only what they wish to see. [...] Sorry these people you hang out with have no idea about any thing other than their mindless attempts at twisting the series into something unrecognizable and vile for their own sick entertainment. [...]

You seem to be under the impression that because you read a wide Varity of "Fantasy" that you are the rule,when nothing is further from the truth. The "small" number of vulgar voices at westros et al, is but a scattering of sand in a vast sea of readers. Having just gotten back from the book signing and Meet the Author" I arrange for Terry, I have come away with some new insights. Goodkind readership is vast and world wide. These people are not only willing to travel from all parts of the world to get a book signed but to meet the man himself and tell him face to face what truly phenomenal work he has done. I've been to many many book signings by Goodkind and never once have we ever heard anything but praise and adoration of Goodkind and his work. This weekend has shown that you and your band of troll are not only wrong, but far far in the minority. Something I honestly think you are aware of but refuse to admit. [...]

Pat, the thing about all of this is honesty and respect. You show neither. You may well not care for Goodkind, fine. I've no problem with that. But you not only do yourself a disservice, but you fail all of your readers when you refuse to see that there are more positive aspects to Goodkind and his works that you are willing to let on. You do yourself a disservice when you try to dismiss the facts that are so clearly evident and rather try to diminish them by refusing to admit that Goodkind and his series has merit. Trust me when I say, you will never achieve your goals until you embrace that which you refuse to admit...the truth. I do think you have potential, as long as you can keep your focus and stop letting your friends direct your thoughts. [...]

Ah, the SFF blogosphere was way more fun back then! :P

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3 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

. Attacking Goodkind for what they admire in GRRM or Bakker etc... sorry pot calling the kettle black simply doesn't warrant time from me. [...]

There was even a case of Bakkake in there!!!!

So is that where the origination of the Lemmings came from?

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RIP Terry, and best wishes for his family.  I enjoyed his first few books but the series went a little silly and I dropped it.  

I admit, I initially read the title of this thread initially as Terry Brooks, and was going oh no.  Then I read the replies.  Then I double checked and realised my mistake.  

On 9/18/2020 at 11:30 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Yeah it's weird. 

Yeah, big 90s books. Jordon, Goodkind, Feist, Eddings, Weiss/Hickman. Hmmm Brooks. I'm forgetting one or two.

Wow a lot of those don't hold up.

I wasted my high school years reading so much crap.

For a moment there I thought you were saying Weiss/Hickman had died!  And Brooks!  Made me sad before I checked.

The other's I think are from the 90's would be Michelle West (my favourite), Wurts, S. Douglass, Tad Williams, Tanya Huff, Rawn, Katherine Kerr, Kate Elliott, Anne McCaffery, Modesitt, CS Friedman, J.V. Jones, Jane Welch, and Robin Hobb.  

Actually, I just looked up some of those publishing dates.  A few in the late eighties, and boy, I had no idea that Dragonriders of Pern started in the 1960s!!!!  Also, looking at that list, I'm once again gobsmacked that anyone doesn't think there were plenty of good female authors in fantasy to grow up with....

 

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6 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

Yes. If I remember correctly, it was Myshkin who got the ball rolling and then we were all in on it!

Makes me realize that this was like 14 years ago! Man, we're not getting any younger!

I think it was Mme Erzulie with the very first "Dispatches from the Insane World of Terry Goodkind" that kicked off this glory. 

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7 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

I think it was Mme Erzulie with the very first "Dispatches from the Insane World of Terry Goodkind" that kicked off this glory. 

I think it was too. And then of course there was The Mad Moose with his QotD write ups. Ah, the good old days. Thank you Mr. Goodkind for bringing us together and providing us with so much entertainment.

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Only just yeard the news. I haven't stopped by the Literature board in years but needed to revisit and see how all you wonderful Lemmings were handing this.

Suffice to say, I'm not disappointed. Gosh, the memories.

Of all the antics and arguments, I think my favorite experience happened off-forum.  Someone had put together a TG worship board that had me in tears.  I remember Scott Bakker even referencing its genius.

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1 hour ago, Foreverlad said:

Only just yeard the news. I haven't stopped by the Literature board in years but needed to revisit and see how all you wonderful Lemmings were handing this.

Suffice to say, I'm not disappointed. Gosh, the memories.

Of all the antics and arguments, I think my favorite experience happened off-forum.  Someone had put together a TG worship board that had me in tears.  I remember Scott Bakker even referencing its genius.

Goodkind is Our God!

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I haven't frequented these boards in a long time, but I had to stop by when I heard the news. I read Wizard's First Rule when I was a kid in the 90s, and even at a young age I could tell it wasn't for me. But I definitely spent a lot of time on the "Don't Feed the Yeard" threads here in the mid 00s (and maybe even earlier on the old ezboard?), and found them hilarious. Goodkind gave me enough fond memories to feel compelled to come back here and post over a decade later, and that's not nothing. Rest in peace.

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Condolences to his family and friends.

I never participated that much on the Goodkind threads but I read them. :)

By the way, what happened to the Goodkind is our God website and does anyone have a copy somewhere?

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K J Parker (Tom Holt) is 59. Robin Hobb is 68. And of course, our exalted champion who brought us all together is 72. Good health and long life to ye all. 

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I didn't take part in the Tairy threads either but I thought they were hilarious. I remember trying to read WFR in the early 2000's, thinking that a book this thick must be good (yes, I know, not exactly solid reasoning) and then discovering how truly terrible it was in the first few pages. I think I read to around page 50 or something and then figured out something else to do with my time. I didn't really get far enough to discover the Rand-ish themes. However, if the writing had simply been better, I would have happily digested that stuff, as I was still quite receptive to that ideology at the time. 

It's still very memorable to me how clunky the prose was. Previously, as I remember my self back then, I had always been fairly tolerant of bad prose, but after trying to read this truly awful piece of garbage I became much more discriminating. It was sort of a turning point I guess.

Would love to see that worship board if anyone has a link to it.

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