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Alex13

Which countries/kingdoms, best represent each of the 7 kingdoms?

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Also, on what city states or countries are the Essos free cities based on?

Edited by Alex13

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Many people say that Dorne is mostly inspired by Spain and the Midde East, but given the Nymeros-Martell flag has a big sun in it, how they are south of the westernmost continent, are known as brown skinned tho they have a lot of white people in the mix, love spicy foods, are descendants of a great empire that was colonized, and are pretty socialist compared to the rest of Westeros, I think they are based on Latin America.

Braavos, being an cold, fog ridden island is supposed to be London.

Most other free cities seem middle estern.

 

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Why only European? I see a lot of parallels with non European regions.

The North is geographically Canada all the way down to the American south. The North has a very diverse climate: the top is like the Canadian territories, very cold with mild summers, but the Neck is fertile and warm enough for year long marshes that support huge reptiles like lizard lions. They even have a huge island to the northeast (Greenland/Skagos). Their culture, however, is more like northern England; a blend of Saxons, Picts, and Scots, as well as Danish from Viking (Ironborn) attacks.

The Westerlands are definitely English, manipulating and dominating their neighbours as often as possible, causing a lot of envy and dislike (the North is very much like Scotland in relation to them while the Riverlands are Wales). Though I don’t know where in England the gold and silver mines are.

The Stormlands are a weird blend to me. Their climate and geography reminds me of Vancouver, but their culture is very much a Germanic warrior culture, with the Dornish Marches being a reference to the Welsh Marches (that’s where GRRM got the term “marcher lord”).

The Vale is another Germanic sort of culture, placing a lot of value on blood and faith and honour. Their geography seems like the mountainous and hilly parts of Austria, maybe?

The Iron Islands are a strange version of Scandinavia. That’s all that needs to be said, really.

The Reach is France; chivalry loving France with their fabulous courts, fertile farms, armies of knights, wine making, and a fierce love-hate rivalry with England (Westerlands) and Germany (Stormlands).

The Riverlands are like the Netherlands and Belgium, which are both known for their canals. They’re also surrounded by enemies on all fronts, and have often needed to fight on all those fronts. They also quarreled amongst each other for years, and this was often exploited by larger countries. But that also makes them fierce fighters, as they’ve shown in European history many times.

I think Dorne is Northern Africa. There’s the rocky Atlas Mountains, the beginning of the Sahara desert, and a lushness thanks to the River Nile. Their cultures are a blend of those different regions of Africa but also throw in Spanish influence.
 

And yes, that’s all very simplified, but what did you expect?

Edited by James Steller

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The North reminds me of Scotland, with the moors up north and lusher lands in the south, where the people are.

The Vale is like Switzerland or Austria, with mountains and fertile valleys. 

The Riverlands are like Poland: fertile and flat, a military playground for its neighbors. 

As mentioned above, the Reach is France.  We haven't seen enough of the Westerlands or Stormlands, but England or Germany fits. 

Dorne is Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and the Iron Islands are obviously Scandinavia.

The only Free City I can comment on is Braavos. With its canals and its emphasis on business and shipping, and laissez-faire governance, it is much like Amsterdam, although it is usually compared to Venice, which could work as well.

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5 hours ago, James Steller said:

Why only European? I see a lot of parallels with non European regions.

I asked about European, because with the exceptions of Yi-Ti (of which we know little) that was inspired by asian kingdoms/cultures and the Dothraki, that are partially inspired by the Mongols, Martin seems to have inspired his world building from european and north african medieval kingdoms and countries. 

And from what i know, Martin doesn't want to introduce anything in the books, that was not present in Europe and to some extent Asia, during the Middle Ages.

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14 hours ago, James Steller said:

I think Dorne is Northern Africa. There’s the rocky Atlas Mountains, the beginning of the Sahara desert, and a lushness thanks to the River Nile. Their cultures are a blend of those different regions of Africa but also throw in Spanish influence.
 

Geographically I think It can still be viewed as Latin America, the mountains could be the Andes and the biggest desert in the world is in South America.

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12 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Geographically I think It can still be viewed as Latin America, the mountains could be the Andes and the biggest desert in the world is in South America.

I don't think so. 

Dorne is mostly resembling either North Africa, like James Steller suggested or Spain, particularly Moorish Spain. The Pyrenees form the border with one country, while Spain is also arid, particularly in the south.

And from what i know, the largest desert is the Sahara in Africa. 

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17 minutes ago, Alex13 said:

I don't think so. 

Dorne is mostly resembling either North Africa, like James Steller suggested or Spain, particularly Moorish Spain. The Pyrenees form the border with one country, while Spain is also arid, particularly in the south.

And from what i know, the largest desert is the Sahara in Africa. 

The Martell flags point heavily to Latin America in my opinion, and the culture seems pretty Latinamerican. I googled just to be sure, and I wa mistaken, the Atacama isn't the largest, it's the oldest and driest.

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51 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

The Martell flags point heavily to Latin America in my opinion, and the culture seems pretty Latinamerican. I googled just to be sure, and I wa mistaken, the Atacama isn't the largest, it's the oldest and driest.

Whatever the sigil indicates, I don’t see how Dorne’s geography or culture is Latin American. The Egyptians viewed the Nile as their source of life, their everything (for good reason). Meanwhile, the Arabic peoples are accustomed to the windswept deserts, surviving on a few water sources and turning the deserts to their own advantage (the way they defeated Crusaders is similar to the Dornish strategy against invasions). Meanwhile the Atlas Mountains are closest to Europe, hence why Morocco has a closer tie to Europe than the rest of Africa might have had. Not to mention that the Moors’ journey to Spain caused Spain to become a highly contested battlefield for centuries, with legends built on both sides of the conflict.

Edited by James Steller

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1 hour ago, James Steller said:

Whatever the sigil indicates, I don’t see how Dorne’s geography or culture is Latin American. The Egyptians viewed the Nile as their source of life, their everything (for good reason). Meanwhile, the Arabic peoples are accustomed to the windswept deserts, surviving on a few water sources and turning the deserts to their own advantage (the way they defeated Crusaders is similar to the Dornish strategy against invasions). Meanwhile the Atlas Mountains are closest to Europe, hence why Morocco has a closer tie to Europe than the rest of Africa might have had. Not to mention that the Moors’ journey to Spain caused Spain to become a highly contested battlefield for centuries, with legends built on both sides of the conflict.

I agree on the Middle Eastern and African influence. I just think the Latinamerican influence shouldn't be overlooked. The spicy food, the politics, the bold-macho-living in the moment thing are all things associated with Latin America. Also Latin America has a long history of guerrillas, and the fact that Dornish have both Andal and Roynaar heritage but they identify much more with the latter part, similar to how even white Latin Americans still identify much more with their Native heritage than their European one. The Donrish Marches could easily be Texas, New Mexico, California and such states. And Latin America has a long history of its politics being negatively influenced by their northern neighbors.

Overall I think Dorne was many influences, and most people just see the Middle Easterner and Iberic ones, I just wanted to point out the one I noticed, I never thought about Africa being one, but what you say makes sense.

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The North is Scotland and northern England, the Iron Islands is Norway, the Vale is Switzerland, the Riverlands is Poland, the Westerlands is southern England, the Stormlands is Germany, the Reach is France and Dorne is Spain.

 

Classic.

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1 hour ago, Adam Targaryen said:

The North is Scotland and northern England, the Iron Islands is Norway, the Vale is Switzerland, the Riverlands is Poland, the Westerlands is southern England, the Stormlands is Germany, the Reach is France and Dorne is Spain.

 

Classic.

I thought the Riverlands were Germany?

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23 hours ago, James Steller said:

Why only European? I see a lot of parallels with non European regions.

The North is geographically Canada all the way down to the American south. The North has a very diverse climate: the top is like the Canadian territories, very cold with mild summers, but the Neck is fertile and warm enough for year long marshes that support huge reptiles like lizard lions. They even have a huge island to the northeast (Greenland/Skagos). Their culture, however, is more like northern England; a blend of Saxons, Picts, and Scots, as well as Danish from Viking (Ironborn) attacks.

The Westerlands are definitely English, manipulating and dominating their neighbours as often as possible, causing a lot of envy and dislike (the North is very much like Scotland in relation to them while the Riverlands are Wales). Though I don’t know where in England the gold and silver mines are.

The Stormlands are a weird blend to me. Their climate and geography reminds me of Vancouver, but their culture is very much a Germanic warrior culture, with the Dornish Marches being a reference to the Welsh Marches (that’s where GRRM got the term “marcher lord”).

The Vale is another Germanic sort of culture, placing a lot of value on blood and faith and honour. Their geography seems like the mountainous and hilly parts of Austria, maybe?

The Iron Islands are a strange version of Scandinavia. That’s all that needs to be said, really.

The Reach is France; chivalry loving France with their fabulous courts, fertile farms, armies of knights, wine making, and a fierce love-hate rivalry with England (Westerlands) and Germany (Stormlands).

The Riverlands are like the Netherlands and Belgium, which are both known for their canals. They’re also surrounded by enemies on all fronts, and have often needed to fight on all those fronts. They also quarreled amongst each other for years, and this was often exploited by larger countries. But that also makes them fierce fighters, as they’ve shown in European history many times.

I think Dorne is Northern Africa. There’s the rocky Atlas Mountains, the beginning of the Sahara desert, and a lushness thanks to the River Nile. Their cultures are a blend of those different regions of Africa but also throw in Spanish influence.
 

And yes, that’s all very simplified, but what did you expect?

I agree with most of this. It's kind of weird how Westeros would have to be virtually tropical in the middle of the continent but then go back to a mild deciduous climate across the Westerlands, Stormlands, Riverlands, Crownlands, Reach, and then go to a desert in Dorne. Something you have to not think about too hard when you're reading the books.

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On 9/22/2020 at 1:46 AM, GoldenGail3 said:

I thought the Riverlands were Germany?

Well kind of, it could be both. There is obviously no official canon and people have said that it's like both Poland and Germany, but I think that Poland is a tiny bit better because it's this country in between several great warring powers - The Iron Islands, the Westerlands and the Stormlands - and so is Poland historically - Germany and Russia.

But yeah, whichever, Germany or Poland or something

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On 9/21/2020 at 1:06 AM, Alex13 said:

Also, on what city states or countries are the Essos free cities based on?

North = Scotland. Mountain clans as Highlanders, big focus on honour, cold, foggy, relatively empty and economically poor. Independence movement of Wot5k is similar to various Scottish independence wars (14th century)? Both Scotland and North took up 1/3 of island/continent but had 1/7 of population. Also Russia, due to its size and impact of winter on warfare.

Iron Islands = Scandinavia, or rather islands in British archipelago which were ruled by Scandinavia (Isle of Mann, Hebrides, Orkneys). Vikings, big focus on trade and shipbuilding (though they have none of the advantages which made it possible for RL Scandinavians, but hell...), very barren, prone to raiding and plundering their neighbours.

Riverlands = Germany and/or Poland. Potentially very powerful, but very fracturous politically and thus only rarely able to actually employ said power. Also very centrally located, which means that whenever there is a war, there is a chance it will happen there.

Vale = Switzerland. Mountainous, isolationist, mountainous, very hard to invade, mountainous, and did I mention it is full of mountains?

Westerlands = England. Not as large or fertile as some others, but very rich. Lannisters of Casterly Rock = Lancasters.

Reach = France. Fertile, very large population, very rich and with military that is very strong on paper, but is in reality much weaker than it appears to be due to cultural mental retardation caused by focus on chivalry (see: Battle of Nicopolis 1396.).

Stormlands = Wales. Very hilly, very foggy, and very poor. As a consequence, it has weak cavalry - especially weak heavy cavalry - but relatively good, disciplined infantry.

Dorne = Spain. Very hot, and consequently has limited cavalry and few heavily armoured troops. Instead, there is a heavy focus on light infantry and light cavalry. However, also has inspirations from Wales (Welsh Marchers / Dornish Marches, Prince of Wales / Prince of Dorne, culturally distinct...).

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