US Politics: Ruthless ambition

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Obviously he is sustained by supernatural forces,

But it's the liberal elites that are pedophiles who are eating children to extend their lives. Lives that die quicker because they exercise, hence the need for the pedophilia and the cannibalism so they can recharge their batteries!!!1!1!!

[DMC]

Just now, larrytheimp said:

Bolded: totally.  Now apply that method to any election related decision.  

The two are fundamentally different.  Only strong partisans give a shit about Citizens United, everyone cares about a case deciding a contested presidential election.  The court did take a hit in legitimacy following Bush v Gore, obviously based on Dems and Dem-leaning Independents.  That would be peanuts compared to the court doing so on the first count, let alone a recount, in the way we're describing.  That's why there's no credible basis to apply that method to such a situation.

9 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

If you were relying on the goodness and grace of John Fucking Roberts to delay the collapse of whatever the fuck this country is, I don't know what to tell you guys.

I hate when people pull this dumbass rhetoric.  It's not about relying on Roberts' goodness and grace, it's about understanding his positioning which is based on his own self-interest and demonstrated through observing his behavior as CJ over the past 15 years.  That's called empirical analysis.

[Martell Spy]

Trump: ‘I’m so angry at Republicans’
The president says his fellow Republicans have let him it down when it comes to investigating Obama and the Bidens.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/21/trump-angry-republicans-419790

Quote

 

President Donald Trump said Monday he was furious with Republicans in Washington for not doing enough to take up his unsubstantiated claims about former Obama administration officials and Hunter Biden.

“Does anything happen? Nothing happens,” Trump said at an event in Dayton, Ohio. “I’m so angry at Republicans. I am. I’m so angry. I am so angry, but a lot of things are happening.”

For months, Trump has tried to spur sweeping investigations into President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden over insinuations about the FBI’s surveillance of Trump campaign associates that he’s dubbed “Obamagate.”

Those calls had largely gone unheeded by Republicans who control the Senate until they nabbed a foothold recently after the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee voted to authorize more than three dozen subpoenas and depositions to compel testimony from former FBI Director James Comey and others.

Trump lashed out at Comey, a frequent target of his, accusing him and “all the sleazebags” of “treason.”

“They spied on my campaign, and we caught ‘em,” Trump said in Dayton during an event billed as being about jobs and fighting for American workers. “Let‘s now see what happens.”

The president claimed that he is “trying like hell to stay out of” investigating his political enemies ahead of a highly contentious election. Emotions are likely to be ratcheted up further in the wake of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s death Friday. Republican operatives have credited a high court vacancy with partially fueling his 2016 victory over Hillary Clinton.

“I don’t have to actually, but it’s better if I do, I think,” Trump said of investigations. “I’m trying to stay out of it, but it’s a disgrace that it’s taken this long.”

 

 

[Martell Spy]

17 minutes ago, Triskele said:

You know all those "Trump is gonna replace Pence with Haley" or whatever arguments?  Those seem deader than dead now, right?

 

Actuaries would predict that Trump would have a great chance of dying in his 2nd term given age/lifestyle/diet/weight.  Obviously he is sustained by supernatural forces*, but it feels not too far-fetched, just like all the "Harris will be POTUS soon talk" that a "Pence will be POTUS soon" statement isn't too crazy.  

Pence would be more on the "let's turn America's women into handmaids" side of the authoritarian coin to Trump's "let's get those looters put down by force" side.  

Jace the Patriot hopes for both.  

*he rots from the outside because Hell sustains him from within**

**Sorry to those that follow

Sorry for the double post. Whatever happened to the generals running in to the room to tackle Trump and then the Cabinet would vote him mentally unsound? Seems like a million years ago.

[Martell Spy]

12 minutes ago, Triskele said:

This is my thing about the Star Wars analogy.  The only thing protecting the Obamas from retribution from a sociopath are Republican senators.  

And the Constitution, said with a straight face.

[Jaxom 1974]

36 minutes ago, Triskele said:

You know all those "Trump is gonna replace Pence with Haley" or whatever arguments?  Those seem deader than dead now, right?

 

 

Pence will be gone within a year of any reelection to install Ivanka in his place.  Book it.

[Jace, Extat]

43 minutes ago, Triskele said:

You know all those "Trump is gonna replace Pence with Haley" or whatever arguments?  Those seem deader than dead now, right?

 

Actuaries would predict that Trump would have a great chance of dying in his 2nd term given age/lifestyle/diet/weight.  Obviously he is sustained by supernatural forces, but it feels not too far-fetched, just like all the "Harris will be POTUS soon talk" that a "Pence will be POTUS soon" statement isn't too crazy.  

Pence would be more on the "let's turn America's women into handmaids" side of the authoritarian coin to Trump's "let's get those looters put down by force" side.  

Jace the Patriot hopes for both.  

You wrong me, monkey. I hope for nothing so much more than the summation of our peoples' desire. That our condition has become so riddled through that malignance has grown to choke moderation is not an accident or insult to our collective, but a societal metastaization. This being our fruit, who would I be to deny what succor can be borne from this late democracy we and our forebears have so mismanaged? The hour for recompense is long since passed. The need for reform an unanswerable klaxon, peals of degradation to which this despicable citizenry has long since been inured. Your government was ground to a halt on the whims of an unstable imbecile. Nay more, your government has been refocused to affecting for said imbecile and his compatriots to the literal ruining of many hundreds of thousands of lives, to say nothing of the capital thievery. The very fact that these precedents have been set precludes any hope for me save survival. I would like to live, and I've long since realized that whether the American people deserve their imminent immolation or not is irrelevant. Inaction or incompetence on the part of the public counts for no reprieve, this accord was impressed and our society failed to respond.

That's all I got. I'm trying to watch football.

[A True Kaniggit]

40 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

 I hope for nothing so much more than the summation of our peoples' desire. 

That's all I got. I'm trying to watch football.

Use your witch powers and have the Saints win this.

Edit: That penalty was completely unnecessary. Did I wrong you in another life?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Use your witch powers and have the Saints win this.

Edit: That penalty was completely unnecessary. Did I wrong you in another life?

Go put a paper bag on your head! 

[Jace, Extat]

RAAAAAIDAAAAAAZ

[Fez]

4 hours ago, Triskele said:

In a "Biden can still win" sense or in a "It will be OK if Trump wins" sense?

Both to some extent, though I was more referring to the former. I think the risk to the election is the same as it was before, not 0% certainly, but even accounting for the possibility of cheating I think Biden is the odds-on favorite.

And if Trump wins, I see a future much like Hungary under Orban right now. A bad future certainly, and at least a short-term end to democracy in the US, but not literal Nazi Germany either.

[A True Kaniggit]

16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Go put a paper bag on your head! 

It’s too late for that.

Far too late. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

It’s too late for that.

Far too late. 

It puts the bag on its head or else it gets the old noodle arm QB again! 

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, Fez said:

And if Trump wins, I see a future much like Hungary under Orban right now. A bad future certainly, and at least a short-term end to democracy in the US, but not literal Nazi Germany either.

This right here is what the real issue is.

That as it turns out, authoritarian governments aren't, ya know, all that bad. It's certainly an end to democracy and whatnot, but it's at least not 6 million people murdered. Sure, the press isn't actually free anymore, there's a state of emergency that can not actually be dismissed by anyone other than Orban, universities are closed down because they're run by the wrong people, migrants and refugees are turned away via violence...but it's not so bad, right?

Especially if you're not one of those immigrants!

[Fez]

29 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

This right here is what the real issue is.

That as it turns out, authoritarian governments aren't, ya know, all that bad. It's certainly an end to democracy and whatnot, but it's at least not 6 million people murdered. Sure, the press isn't actually free anymore, there's a state of emergency that can not actually be dismissed by anyone other than Orban, universities are closed down because they're run by the wrong people, migrants and refugees are turned away via violence...but it's not so bad, right?

Especially if you're not one of those immigrants!

I'm not saying its not bad; and I'll fight like hell against it myself. But I'm not going to prepare to flee to the border because the jackboots are coming on November 4.

[Martell Spy]

Hungary is a pretty damn scary scenario, actually. And it will probably slide further. The government has favorite businesses there, so it's not like well I'm not in media, an academic, or political. I'll just go about my business. It certainly would not be good to Jeff Bezos in such in the Hungary scenario.

Also, Trump is not a rational actor, which is an understatement.  He may want revenge and lots of it. And if God really hates us he may live a long life. I think the election will go well though, for what it is worth. Our real problem is likely the Supreme Court.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, Kalibear said:

This right here is what the real issue is.

That as it turns out, authoritarian governments aren't, ya know, all that bad. 

I'm pretty confident that anyone following Kendzior's advice to write down their values/normality in 2016 would be observing some pretty major shift when comparing to these sorts of statements being made now. Which was exactly her point after all.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

You do realize the connection between prioritizing the immigrants and the slide into the authoritarian state, don't you?  It's a straight up formula.  Maybe some of the people saying pump the brakes on immigration thought about a few other things like whether the women already in the country could lose the right to choose and stuff.  Of course it sucks to be so xenophobic-sounding.

I really don't mean to rehash this whole thing.  But there's this repeated, exhausting angle that the most righteous leftist policies are so incontrovertable it's just a matter of everyone agreeing to them, and if that didn't happen, well, everyone should have been made to.  Should.  Must.  

It seems like there's not been a lot of "even if that's the most humane thing to do on that immediate issue, it could help a Trump which would then fuck so many others."  Call it the Raja rule.  

I'm really not sure where you're going with this or if you agree or disagree so...uh, thanks? Or shut up. Or something.

52 minutes ago, Fez said:

I'm not saying its not bad; and I'll fight like hell against it myself. But I'm not going to prepare to flee to the border because the jackboots are coming on November 4.

You're saying that it's not so horrible, and at least people aren't being put into ovens. That is a pretty low bar to clear. If authoritarianism is tolerable when you're not the one getting repressed, chances are good that you're not going to 'fight like hell' against it yourself. Because hey, at least no one is being put in ovens. Just forced hysterectomies and whatnot.

24 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Bit of a strawman though dude, Fez.  The counter-argument doesn't seem to be that the jack boots show up that day.  It's more like that all the levers are pushed far enough in the other direction that a certain result looks borderline impossible to avoid.  

The point is none of those things. The point is that it's pretty much a straight shot from Hungary to Russia or Turkey. And in both of those places, most of the time things are pretty much fine. You can even protest! (sometimes, when it suits them). You can be an opposition leader, and only occasionally get poisoned and die (usually you just get chucked out a window). You've mostly got free trade and lots of stuff to buy. Almost no one really gets oppressed that badly. There aren't that many forced labor camps, certainly not as many as China or the US has. 

For most people, life is just fine. It's not that big a deal. They aren't impacted. They might not like the empire, they hate it, but they're just stuck on Tattooine and pining for the day they get their power converters.

7 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I'm pretty confident that anyone following Kendzior's advice to write down their values/normality in 2016 would be observing some pretty major shift when comparing to these sorts of statements being made now. Which was exactly her point after all.

Yeah, that was a very good prophetic bit of information. That's just what happens when you're under an authoritarian regime, and the US is essentially there. Not perhaps quite so bad as Hungary, but very very close.

[karaddin]

@Kalibear but it's ok, the jackboot thugs won't be showing up on November 4. Because they already exist and are busy snatching protestors off the streets and carrying out components of genocide on refugees locked in cages. They can't poof into existence when they already exist.

[Kalbear]

I'm mostly talking to @Fez about how things aren't going to really get THAT bad, which when we're resigned to the fact that it won't be quite as bad as Nazi Germany and is only going to be a European illiberal democracy that, well, that's not that bad is it? 

I mean, 4 years ago I was arguing with Rockroi about what this signified and how if it really came down to it he'd be out there in the streets protesting and really carving it up, and...nope. That no, I was just so fucking insane for seeing what this was going to be, and how there were so many checks and balances that would make sure that things didn't go too bad. That this was just a typical Republican, and any Republican would do all these things.

I'm just so tired of people telling me what is happening isn't happening. Or that it's wrong to actually be afraid of it.