Why Do People Hate Daeron?

[Trigger Warning]

Sam spent the money on a ship they didn't take and a healer for a 102 year old man trying to undertake an arduous sea voyage. Aemon doesn't even die in Braavos he dies on a ship near Dorne, Sam wasted all the money and changed literally nothing. People are making out like Dareon hit Braavos and then immediately just abandoned them to die, he was ready to leave if Sam had boarded the ship they paid for instead they stay and Dareon has to basically go back to living his own non penal-slave life to earn money and he decides why not just stay. Sam, Gilly and Aemon aren't anything more to him than prison inmates that want to keep him in the prison, they could have deserted too as far as he's concerned. 

The man might be a selfish dick but I don't resent him at all for not dedicating his life to the service of a slave colony for a crime I believe he didn't commit. Sam's projecting all his anger onto Dareon because he knows he fucked up and lost all their money. He's even mad that Dareon didn't speak up to convince the ship captain to wait longer when it was an entirely fruitless effort, it's completely irrational. 

Aemon was 102 he was dead the second he left the Wall, not that he wasn't going to desert the Night's Watch himself anyway. 

EDIT: I wonder if people would celebrate Arya shanking Aemon and stealing his shoes. 

[broken one]

So Dareon saved some money as the old fart would have died anyway, fair enough XD  From Dareons POV Aemon is not a fictional character made of paper and people expect humane attitude. Seems most readers at least visualise themselves behaving better than D.

 

 

[sweetsunray]

15 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Why does Aemon get a pass for trying to abandon Sam?

What an absurd anology.

How did Aemon "try to abandon Sam"? You mean, he wished to go to Dany? Wishing for something is not "trying to abandon". Secondly, maester Aemon didn't make false promises to Sam and Gilly about food and wood. Thirdly, Aemon was dependent on Sam and Dareon for survival, not the other way around.

[sweetsunray]

15 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

Sam spent the money on a ship they didn't take and a healer for a 102 year old man trying to undertake an arduous sea voyage. Aemon doesn't even die in Braavos he dies on a ship near Dorne, Sam wasted all the money and changed literally nothing. People are making out like Dareon hit Braavos and then immediately just abandoned them to die, he was ready to leave if Sam had boarded the ship they paid for instead they stay and Dareon has to basically go back to living his own non penal-slave life to earn money and he decides why not just stay. Sam, Gilly and Aemon aren't anything more to him than prison inmates that want to keep him in the prison, they could have deserted too as far as he's concerned. 

The man might be a selfish dick but I don't resent him at all for not dedicating his life to the service of a slave colony for a crime I believe he didn't commit. Sam's projecting all his anger onto Dareon because he knows he fucked up and lost all their money. He's even mad that Dareon didn't speak up to convince the ship captain to wait longer when it was an entirely fruitless effort, it's completely irrational. 

Aemon was 102 he was dead the second he left the Wall, not that he wasn't going to desert the Night's Watch himself anyway. 

EDIT: I wonder if people would celebrate Arya shanking Aemon and stealing his shoes. 

Bullshit. Dareon lied to Sam in Braavos. Dareon wilfully made false promises. He made himself appear to Sam as someone who would solve the monetary issues, and had Sam wait on his return.

People make mistakes. That's not a reason to lie to them and make false promises about going to work to provide them food, wine and wood.

And exactly because Sam, Gilly and Aemon aren't anything more to him than prison inmates, he's a shitty character with no humanity and empathy and pedophelic tendencies. The death of such people real or fictional is never a loss to humanity

[Eltharion21]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Bullshit. Dareon lied to Sam in Braavos. Dareon wilfully made false promises. He made himself appear to Sam as someone who would solve the monetary issues, and had Sam wait on his return.

People make mistakes. That's not a reason to lie to them and make false promises about going to work to provide them food, wine and wood.

And exactly because Sam, Gilly and Aemon aren't anything more to him than prison inmates, he's a shitty character with no humanity and empathy and pedophelic tendencies. The death of such people real or fictional is never a loss to humanity

So almost bad as Hound?

[TheLastWolf]

16 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

 

EDIT: I wonder if people would celebrate Arya shanking Aemon and stealing his shoes

Why the fuck would she do that!?!?

Daeron wanted to whore around while Aemon wanted to go to Dany (is his vows broken anywhere? He's following Jon's orders to find more ways to beat the Others and Dany and her dragons are the best way). 

Huge effing difference, mate. Even Arya could see that. Oh wait! Her eyes are not clouded by prejudice.

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, broken one said:

So Dareon saved some money as the old fart would have died anyway, fair enough XD 

WTF!!!! Whoring around in money that could have got them good living conditions and ensured at least a fitting end for Maester Aemon (not an old fart) is SAVING MONEY????!!!! 

And death comes for everyone. (what we do while we live makes the difference, Aemon was a great man while Daeron was a shallow singer dick) As Daeron learned to his end. Valar Morghulis. 

[TheLastWolf]

Same doubt as @sweetsunray.

Spoiler

I wonder whether it's obligatory or not for maesters and septons to swear the NW vows. Can the citadel and High Septon select someone to serve at Castle Black, but without them becoming NW?

 

[sweetsunray]

31 minutes ago, Eltharion21 said:

So almost bad as Hound?

Before answering, can you specify the specific case for the Hound, who by the way did shitty stuff too.

I'm not a fan of whataboutism though, as each character is an individual with a different case. For example, there's a difference between making promises someone cannot possibly keep, even though they try and making promises while already knowing you won't make the effort even. Beric Dondarrion makes promises he could not keep, but he made them with sincere intentions. Dareon did no such thing. He made promises while never having the intention to keep them.

[Eltharion21]

40 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Before answering, can you specify the specific case for the Hound, who by the way did shitty stuff too.

I'm not a fan of whataboutism though, as each character is an individual with a different case. For example, there's a difference between making promises someone cannot possibly keep, even though they try and making promises while already knowing you won't make the effort even. Beric Dondarrion makes promises he could not keep, but he made them with sincere intentions. Dareon did no such thing. He made promises while never having the intention to keep them.

Is he worse or not than the Hound?

You have made quite substantial essay regarding the Hound, do you find similarities in your claim with that character:

https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2016/02/09/the-beasts-kiss-sansas-sexual-maturation/

Quote

And exactly because Sam, Gilly and Aemon aren't anything more to him than prison inmates, he's a shitty character with no humanity and empathy and pedophelic tendencies. The death of such people real or fictional is never a loss to humanity

 

[broken one]

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

WTF!!!! Whoring around in money that could have got them good living conditions and ensured at least a fitting end for Maester Aemon (not an old fart) is SAVING MONEY????!!!! 

And death comes for everyone. (what we do while we live makes the difference, Aemon was a great man while Daeron was a shallow singer dick) As Daeron learned to his end. Valar Morghulis. 

I was sarcastic (just in case you are not, because I am not sure)

[El Guapo]

In fairness to Daeron if I had to send months at sea with someone as annoying as Samwell Tarly I would bolt at the first chance i got when i got to shore.

[kissdbyfire]

On 9/24/2020 at 9:27 AM, Eltharion21 said:

Is he worse or not than the Hound?

I’m obviously not answering for @sweetsunray, but IMO yes, he is worse than Sandor. Mind you, Sandor is deeply flawed, and has done horrible things. 

[Eltharion21]

18 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m obviously not answering for @sweetsunray, but IMO yes, he is worse than Sandor. Mind you, Sandor is deeply flawed, and has done horrible things. 

Personally I strongly disagree. Act of murdering Mycah alone is enough to make him worse in my book. 

What is more irksome is Arya's arbitrary relationship in dealing "justice" without complete insight to crimes. One person beings judge, jury and executioner is always questionable, especially someone so young.

 

[TheLastWolf]

6 hours ago, Eltharion21 said:

Personally I strongly disagree. Act of murdering Mycah alone is enough to make him worse in my book. 

Remember Sepron Meribald's account of the broken men? The Elder Brother's reasoning? Sandor at least has that in his defense. Dareon is a bastard. No such sob story. 

6 hours ago, Eltharion21 said:

What is more irksome is Arya's arbitrary relationship in dealing "justice" without complete insight to crimes. One person beings judge, jury and executioner is always questionable, especially someone so young.

 Toxic dump

[Frey family reunion]

On 9/20/2020 at 10:34 PM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I have been thinking about this for awhile. I get that Daeron is not a pinnacle of virtue. He abandons Sam and Maester Aemon (although I think the Maester was dying either way). However, people on this forum often love Mance Raydar, another black brother who abandoned his post. I am sure Mance is personally responsible for a slew of other Ranger’s deaths. Why is Daeron for wanting freedom where Mance is loved for the same thing. Daeron claims from our earliest introduction to him that he didn’t commit the crime that landed him on the Wall, and...considering the circumstances, seems fairly possible he is telling the truth. So he has been sentenced to a life of servitude for a crime he didn’t commit. Yet, everyone just hates him on this forum. Why? I honestly just don’t get it. So I want to hear your explanations and would also like to hear from those that don’t hate him. 

To put it simply, readers probably hate Daeron because Sam ended up hating Daeron.  And we primarily see Daeron through Sam's eyes.  He may have been more sympathetic if he was made a POV character.  

I agree, that Daeron's certainly a very imperfect character, but it is true that Daeron was given a crappy lot in life, and Braavos surely made Daeron start to think that he might have a shot at reinventing himself, so he doesn't have to die basically alone in the shadow of a giant wall of ice.  It's certainly not "honorable" but it's very human.

[kissdbyfire]

10 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

To put it simply, readers probably hate Daeron because Sam ended up hating Daeron.  And we primarily see Daeron through Sam's eyes.  He may have been more sympathetic if he was made a POV character.  

I agree, that Daeron's certainly a very imperfect character, but it is true that Daeron was given a crappy lot in life, and Braavos surely made Daeron start to think that he might have a shot at reinventing himself, so he doesn't have to die basically alone in the shadow of a giant wall of ice.  It's certainly not "honorable" but it's very human.

I won’t say I hate Dareon; “hate” is a bit too strong here for me. But I do think he’s a complete PoS, selfish, lacking in empathy, has paedo tendencies, and the list of negative traits goes on. I will also say that I don’t have any problems w/ Dareon deserting. It’s his timing for deserting, and what he chose to do then that puts him on my shit list. 

[RedDragon]

On 9/22/2020 at 5:34 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

No idea why. I always saw him as a tragic victim of a system working against him and Arya being a judgmental homicidal sociopath acting as judge jury and executioner.

Idk how abandoning the fight to save the world from the impending ice demons to go have lots and lots of sex ensures you to him and makes him seem like a tragic hero/person.

 

if anything it’s evidence that he was a playboy that took advantage of a young girl for sex. Some here seem to just kinda assuming that due to the justice system in westeros being so bad he’s innocent and telling the truth but that’s far from certain and from what we can tell false. 
 

legally speaking it doesn’t matter what his crime was, innocent or not he took the oath and deserted. Not even for anything so noble as saving a family member but the guy just wanted to bang some more. So I kinda side with arya on this one especially from her point of view 

[The Commentator]

On 9/20/2020 at 11:34 PM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I have been thinking about this for awhile. I get that Daeron is not a pinnacle of virtue. He abandons Sam and Maester Aemon (although I think the Maester was dying either way). However, people on this forum often love Mance Raydar, another black brother who abandoned his post. I am sure Mance is personally responsible for a slew of other Ranger’s deaths. Why is Daeron for wanting freedom where Mance is loved for the same thing. Daeron claims from our earliest introduction to him that he didn’t commit the crime that landed him on the Wall, and...considering the circumstances, seems fairly possible he is telling the truth. So he has been sentenced to a life of servitude for a crime he didn’t commit. Yet, everyone just hates him on this forum. Why? I honestly just don’t get it. So I want to hear your explanations and would also like to hear from those that don’t hate him. 

Daeron is not a man of positive virtues but he is an angel compared to Mance Rayder.  Mance Rayder is an oathbreaker and a traitor to the Night's Watch.  Mance deserves to get executed.  

[The Commentator]

1 hour ago, RedDragon said:

Idk how abandoning the fight to save the world from the impending ice demons to go have lots and lots of sex ensures you to him and makes him seem like a tragic hero/person.

Daeron is not the only one doing that.  Jon is, although for a different reason.  

1 hour ago, RedDragon said:

 

if anything it’s evidence that he was a playboy that took advantage of a young girl for sex. Some here seem to just kinda assuming that due to the justice system in westeros being so bad he’s innocent and telling the truth but that’s far from certain and from what we can tell false. 
 

legally speaking it doesn’t matter what his crime was, innocent or not he took the oath and deserted. Not even for anything so noble as saving a family member but the guy just wanted to bang some more. So I kinda side with arya on this one especially from her point of view 

Abandoning the wall to save a family member is not excusable.  I agree.  I wonder if Arya will be able to carry out the death sentence if ever she comes across her beloved brother, Jon.