Jon was right in executing Janos Slynt

[Nathan Stark]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to see how Jon had any other choice in the matter. He gave Slynt a direct order, then the next day, after Slynt disobeyed Jon, he gave Slynt a second chance, and was openly disrespected. It was the most logical solution to an unsavory situation.

[Dracul's Daughter]

LOL.I don't even know how people can argue that.Slynt had it coming.He basically had "KILL ME" written on his forehead.

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

 

A ranger maybe, but Cotter Pyke was the one who led Stannis and the men of Eastwatch to the wildling camp. Janos Slynt and Alliser Thorne sent Jon to assassinate Mance Rayder right before the battle. So it's not like that bald dummy proved anything in battle.

Right, so as soon as Eastwatch heard of Mances attack Pyke sent Janos, Alliser and all those other fine people to take command of CB. 

Only later does Stannis and Eastwatches main garrison arrive 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Janos Slynt is trash.

He was. Still sad how his life turned out and ended, piece of trash he was

[James Steller]

4 hours ago, argonak said:

It would be a very interesting alternate storyline for Ned to have been sent to the wall.  Ned would have been a top contender for LC.  And then Jon and him could have made up some lost time, right before Ned get's stabbed in the back by Cersei's assassins.

Ned was not going to survive that leg. He was dying of an infection regardless.

[Son of Man]

Jon was completely wrong in executing Janos Slynt.  The appropriate punishment was time in a cell.  Jon was itching to murder Janos Slynt.  He wanted revenge for Ned's execution and took it out on the only person he could get his hands on, the person under his power.  Jon abused and misused his authority. 

[Dracul's Daughter]

45 minutes ago, Son of Man said:

Jon was completely wrong in executing Janos Slynt.  The appropriate punishment was time in a cell.  Jon was itching to murder Janos Slynt.  He wanted revenge for Ned's execution and took it out on the only person he could get his hands on, the person under his power.  Jon abused and misused his authority. 

Who gives a crap about Slynt?

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, Son of Man said:

Jon was completely wrong in executing Janos Slynt.  The appropriate punishment was time in a cell.  Jon was itching to murder Janos Slynt.  He wanted revenge for Ned's execution and took it out on the only person he could get his hands on, the person under his power.  Jon abused and misused his authority. 

We literally know Jon’s thought process leading to Slynt’s execution. He gave Slynt enough chances. And Slynt was a criminal anyway. And as it’s been said already, Janos is a child killer. He had it coming.

[R2D]

Does anyone not like how GRRM depicts lowborn people who want to rise higher in society as scum? Slynt, Baelish, even Varys are written as villains. You have to be happy being subservient to the higher ups like Dunk or Davos otherwise you're trash. 

[Azarial]

1 hour ago, James Steller said:

We literally know Jon’s thought process leading to Slynt’s execution. He gave Slynt enough chances. And Slynt was a criminal anyway. And as it’s been said already, Janos is a child killer. He had it coming.

Don't forget his thought immediately after being 'what a waste.' Not sure being unhappy about having to execute him for abandoning his post (or in Slynts case refusal to go even go to to his assigned post). Something we are told execution is the punishment for multiple times, along with hearing about it being carried out by any lord including the LC, qualifies as seeking revenge and abuse of power The arguments don't even try to make sense. Unless the sentinels at the Night Fort are what they mean and if their few days each last as long as the long night. I could get behind burying him permanently in an ice cell made just for him.

[Bernie Mac]

2 hours ago, James Steller said:

We literally know Jon’s thought process leading to Slynt’s execution. He gave Slynt enough chances. And Slynt was a criminal anyway. And as it’s been said already, Janos is a child killer. He had it coming.

Yes we do.

"As you will." Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. "Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—"

—and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again.

—and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him?

"—and hang him," Jon finished.

 

It took Jon literally a split second to go from thinking off-putting him in a cell for a day to executing him.

 

That is truly fucked up. Horrific. An abuse of power by someone getting even on a person who he hated and fantasized about chopping his head off even before he refused an order. Jon is getting to make the fantasy he had at the beginning of the chapter.

 

Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well.

 

Pragmatically it was the right thing to do, Slynt may well have been a problem for Jon in the future. But his execution had little to do with him refusing an order, he was killed for what he did in his past life, before he joined the Watch, and what Jon feared he would do in the future.

 

[TheLastWolf]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:53 PM, James Steller said:

Wait, is this really a contested point?

Oh boy! Wait till all the Jon/Stark/North haters pour in. 

They inevitably end up praising Targs and Dany to the heavens. Poor haters. Poor Bowen Marsh. Poor Ramsey. 

[TheLastWolf]

And please let this thread not end up a haters ranting thread. 

[TheLastWolf]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:50 AM, Dracul's Daughter said:

Who gives a crap about Slynt?

Haters, because the enemy of their enemy is their friend. Also applies in the plural sense. 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

That is truly fucked up. Horrific. An abuse of power by someone getting even on a person who he hated and fantasized about chopping his head off even before he refused an order. Jon is getting to make the fantasy he had at the beginning of the chapter.

Pragmatically it was the right thing to do, Slynt may well have been a problem for Jon in the future. But his execution had little to do with him refusing an order, he was killed for what he did in his past life, before he joined the Watch, and what Jon feared he would do in the future.

 

It's also horrific to me that Janos Slynt was prepared to send Jon Snow on a suicide mission which would likely result in him being tortured to death by thousands of wildlings, all because he betrayed his dad? Janos jumped right on the Jon Snow hate train that Alliser Thorne is conducting, and he's quite happy to believe the worst of him and send him off to die horribly, knowing that he's got no choice but to accept that in order to prove his loyalty. Stannis Baratheon saved Jon Snow's life in that regard. It meant that he survives, and gets elected. And even then, Janos will forever be trying to destroy him. He isn't coming back from "hey, no hard feelings about my trying to kill you for no reasons that are your fault?" Would YOU feel comfortable around such a person ever again?

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

Yikes! This topic is heated!

Janos is a member of a military order. He witnessed the voting in of his commanding officer. Disobedience is a slap to all those that voted. Disrespect to every brother. Disobedience can get your brothers killed. Disobedience can get you killed. Disobedience is death. 

Janos was a fool to not see this coming. An even bigger fool for making the same mistakes twice. Gold to black to dead.

Throw in his personality and actions... the question becomes how did he escape death for so long? 
 

.....and he’s a POS. Pawtooey~
 

[Bernie Mac]

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

It's also horrific to me that Janos Slynt was prepared to send Jon Snow on a suicide mission which would likely result in him being tortured to death by thousands of wildlings, all because he betrayed his dad?

True. I'm in agreement with you. Slynt is a deplorable human being. What's your point?

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

 

Janos jumped right on the Jon Snow hate train that Alliser Thorne is conducting, and he's quite happy to believe the worst of him and send him off to die horribly, knowing that he's got no choice but to accept that in order to prove his loyalty.

True again. However Jon did kill other Watchmen, did help lead a bunch of Wildlings over the wall and did seem to fall in love with one of them, so as bad as Thorne and Slynt are, their suspicions were hardly unfounded about Jon's loyalty.

We the reader know he was true(ish) to the Watch, it is understandable that others who did not know Jon as much as the reader does come to different conclusions about him.

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

 

Stannis Baratheon saved Jon Snow's life in that regard. It meant that he survives, and gets elected.

Sam had a bigger influence on him being elected. Sam does not interfere with the vote and we'd likely have had a case of Lord Commander Slynt unjustly having Jon executed over a trumped up charge, just like Jon did to Slynt. They'd both be in the wrong according to the vows of the Nights Watch though.

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

 

And even then, Janos will forever be trying to destroy him. He isn't coming back from "hey, no hard feelings about my trying to kill you for no reasons that are your fault?" Would YOU feel comfortable around such a person ever again?

Dude, did you not actually read what I wrote? I said pragmatically Jon was in the right. Just that it was not in the Spirit of the Oath of the Nights Watch.

[Aldarion]

15 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Dude, did you not actually read what I wrote? I said pragmatically Jon was in the right. Just that it was not in the Spirit of the Oath of the Nights Watch.

Oath was ignored for a long time in spirit and letter both, else nobody would have been there to man the wall - Lord Mormont points out as much. So in the end, what should be done is what helps the Night's Watch function. And Janos did refuse a direct order, point-blank, multiple times. That is as good as mutiny, and mutineers are always executed in any half-competent military. If Jon had not executed him, Night's Watch would have fallen apart. So I fail to see how executing Slynt was "not in the Spirit of the Oath of the Night's Watch", even if Jon's personal reasons were not exclusively about Night's Watch itself.

[Eltharion21]

15 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So I know there are a lot of people peddling the "Jon was wrong in executing poor loyal Janos" thing. But think about it, whichever way you take it, Jon was 100% in the right

- From a legalism standpoint Jon was 100% right, Janos was committing insubordination and openly questioning Jon's authority. Jon was in his right to execute him.

- From a moral point of view, do I even need to argue this, given everything from Janos screwing over Ned to him actively trying to get Jon killed on several occasions.

- From a pragmatic point of view he was snuffing out resistance. Janos had been his main opponent int he elections and was putting himself up as a loud mouth counter to Jon. He was a living focal point of anti Jon potential conspiracies. Executing him removed one of the 2 most dangerous men for Jon and proved a point that Jon was not messing around.

So it was a good decision on Jon's behalf. It was pragmatic, removing an active threat and he was in the right, morally as Janos had been and probably was seeking Jon's death as well as legally as Jon was completely in the right to execute him for refusing to obey his orders several times in a row. All military orders including the army had death as a potential punishment for insubordination.

Funny thing  I ran in this quote looking Wiki.

"Tyrion: You're a bold man to take Harrenhal for your seat. Such a grim place, and huge ... costly to maintain. And some say cursed as well.
Janos: Should I fear a pile of stone?"

Later he was given command of Greyguard, basically a pile of stone and by refusing it gets executed. In hindsight he probably should had been afraid from pile of stone.

"I was the Lord of Harrenhal! Give your ruin to one of the blind fools who cast a stone for you, I will not have it."

 

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Yes we do.

"As you will." Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. "Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—"

—and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again.

—and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him?

"—and hang him," Jon finished.

 

It took Jon literally a split second to go from thinking off-putting him in a cell for a day to executing him.

 

That is truly fucked up. Horrific. An abuse of power by someone getting even on a person who he hated and fantasized about chopping his head off even before he refused an order. Jon is getting to make the fantasy he had at the beginning of the chapter.

 

Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well.

 

Pragmatically it was the right thing to do, Slynt may well have been a problem for Jon in the future. But his execution had little to do with him refusing an order, he was killed for what he did in his past life, before he joined the Watch, and what Jon feared he would do in the future.

 

Inflicting several days of pain and degradation on Slynt would hardly be a nobler alternative.

Beheading was clean, quick, and decent, and the only way to treat a mutineer.

[Jeeves]

16 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So I know there are a lot of people peddling the "Jon was wrong in executing poor loyal Janos" thing. But think about it, whichever way you take it, Jon was 100% in the right

- From a legalism standpoint Jon was 100% right, Janos was committing insubordination and openly questioning Jon's authority. Jon was in his right to execute him.

- From a moral point of view, do I even need to argue this, given everything from Janos screwing over Ned to him actively trying to get Jon killed on several occasions.

- From a pragmatic point of view he was snuffing out resistance. Janos had been his main opponent int he elections and was putting himself up as a loud mouth counter to Jon. He was a living focal point of anti Jon potential conspiracies. Executing him removed one of the 2 most dangerous men for Jon and proved a point that Jon was not messing around.

So it was a good decision on Jon's behalf. It was pragmatic, removing an active threat and he was in the right, morally as Janos had been and probably was seeking Jon's death as well as legally as Jon was completely in the right to execute him for refusing to obey his orders several times in a row. All military orders including the army had death as a potential punishment for insubordination.

You're wrong about that.  Jon was 100% wrong to murder Janos Slynt. Think of the following reasons.

1. Jon is the lord commander of both Mance Rayder and Janos Slynt.  Mance committed crimes that were far more serious and terrible compared to Janos Slynt.  Jon killed Janos and let Mance walk.  That is injustice.  Jon failed in his duty as their commanding officer.
2. Jon made his point towards the end of that exchange with Janos.  Janos begged for mercy and was willing to do as instructed.  There was no justification to kill him.
3. Janos was a ruined man, humiliated in front of the other men.  He was not going to lead people away from the wall.  That was Jon inventing reasons in that long head of his to do what he wanted, kill Janos Slynt.
4. Jon himself was guilty of attacking Ser Aliser Thorne.  That makes Janos' insubordination mild by comparison.  Jon was given some room and leniency.  And Jon did not even show any sincere remorse.  Janos made a public showing of remorse and was still killed over a minor offense.  Jon should have been executed.
5. It was not pragmatic to murder Janos Slynt.  Jon turned the man's friends against him.  Jon made himself a tyrant that day.