Jon was right in executing Janos Slynt

[TheLastWolf]

34 minutes ago, TedBear said:

I was hoping he would kill Thorne too 

Valar Morghulis 

[TheLastWolf]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:48 AM, Dracul's Daughter said:

He basically had "KILL ME" written on his forehead.

Nope. CUT THROUGH HERE was tattooed on his neck. You know how there are scissor lines in plastic packets? Dotted lines? 

[Rondo]

On 9/24/2020 at 2:13 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So I know there are a lot of people peddling the "Jon was wrong in executing poor loyal Janos" thing. But think about it, whichever way you take it, Jon was 100% in the right

Jon was wrong to kill Slynt.  

On 9/24/2020 at 2:13 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- From a legalism standpoint Jon was 100% right, Janos was committing insubordination and openly questioning Jon's authority. Jon was in his right to execute him.

And Jon did not show open disrespect for Ser Alliser Thorne?  Was Jon deprived of his long head for his offense?  He was given a break and got off easy.  The NW is composed of men from various walks of life.  The brothers are not executed for mouthing off and showing occasional disrespect.  Execution was the inappropriate way to deal with Slynt.

On 9/24/2020 at 2:13 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- From a moral point of view, do I even need to argue this, given everything from Janos screwing over Ned to him actively trying to get Jon killed on several occasions.

You can argue but you will not convince me.  Tradition and law says any crime a man commits before joining the NW are forgiven and forgotten.  Besides, Ned was screwed over by Littlefinger.  Catlyn's bf.  Ned was guilty of attempting to usurp Joffrey as far as the world knew.  Ned looked guilty to everybody involved.  You cannot blame that on Slynt.

On 9/24/2020 at 2:13 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- From a pragmatic point of view he was snuffing out resistance.  had been his main opponent int he elections and was putting himself up as a loud mouth counter to Jon. He was a living focal point of anti Jon potential conspiracies. Executing him removed one of the 2 most dangerous men for Jon and proved a point that Jon was not messing around.

No.  That was all in Jon's head.  Just because Jon was dishonorable to attempt desertion does not mean everybody is.  It is fact that most people who joined the watch keep to their vows.  Jon is not the only person who left a loved one behind.  Ser Alliser was unjustly sent to the wall and the man stayed.  There is no proof that Slynt would have deserted after Jon publicly humiliated him.  Jon was making up reasons to kill him.  Jon had already proven his point.  Slynt was begging for his life.  

On 9/24/2020 at 2:13 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So it was a good decision on Jon's behalf. It was pragmatic, removing an active threat and he was in the right, morally as Janos had been and probably was seeking Jon's death as well as legally as Jon was completely in the right to execute him for refusing to obey his orders several times in a row. All military orders including the army had death as a potential punishment for insubordination.

No.  It was a terrible decision on Jon's behalf.  It was not pragmatic because Jon was executed in the end.  Jon's shenanigans and awful decisions got himself killed.  All of Jon's shenanigans will only weaken the defenses of the wall.  The NW has remained largely intact for many millennia.  I'm afraid Jon's incompetent leadership will be its death.  

[kissdbyfire]

23 minutes ago, Rondo said:

Jon was wrong to kill Slynt.  
 

Nope, Jon was right to execute Slynt.

23 minutes ago, Rondo said:

And Jon did not show open disrespect for Ser Alliser Thorne?  Was Jon deprived of his long head for his offense?  He was given a break and got off easy.  The NW is composed of men from various walks of life.  The brothers are not executed for mouthing off and showing occasional disrespect.  Execution was the inappropriate way to deal with Slynt.

Punishment for whatever offence is determined by the Lord Commander. Not every LC will punish the men serving under them in the exact same manner. On top of that, a fist fight is not in any way, shape or form the same thing as insubordination directed at the LC. 

23 minutes ago, Rondo said:

You can argue but you will not convince me.  Tradition and law says any crime a man commits before joining the NW are forgiven and forgotten.  Besides, Ned was screwed over by Littlefinger.  Catlyn's bf.  Ned was guilty of attempting to usurp Joffrey as far as the world knew.  Ned looked guilty to everybody involved.  You cannot blame that on Slynt.

Slynt was executed for insubordination. 

23 minutes ago, Rondo said:

No.  That was all in Jon's head.  Just because Jon was dishonorable to attempt desertion does not mean everybody is.  It is fact that most people who joined the watch keep to their vows.  Jon is not the only person who left a loved one behind.  Ser Alliser was unjustly sent to the wall and the man stayed.  There is no proof that Slynt would have deserted after Jon publicly humiliated him.  Jon was making up reasons to kill him.  Jon had already proven his point.  Slynt was begging for his life. 
 

Mormont explained it very well, seems you missed it. Shocking. Also, Jon didn’t publicly humiliate Slynt, it was the other way about, again, very clear in the text. 
And yet again, Slynt was executed for insubordination, although he did deserve death for a whole lot of other reasons as well. 
Course he was begging. Like the nasty PoS he was, he first insults the LC and tells him to shove stuff up his arse, he also starts to bring up the fact that he has friends in KL, and when he finally realises neither the name-calling nor fear of his important friends will help, and that even his cronies won’t lift a finger to help him, he resorts to begging shamelessly, like the douchy PoS that he is.

23 minutes ago, Rondo said:

 

No.  It was a terrible decision on Jon's behalf.  It was not pragmatic because Jon was executed in the end.  Jon's shenanigans and awful decisions got himself killed.  All of Jon's shenanigans will only weaken the defenses of the wall.  The NW has remained largely intact for many millennia.  I'm afraid Jon's incompetent leadership will be its death.  

Jon wasn’t executed, though. There was an assassination attempt on his life, also very clear in the text. Oh well, I imagine you won’t enjoy TWoW much.

 

[Targaryen Restoration]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:39 AM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

That was the wrong move any way you look at it.  Jon silenced input from the men of the watch by killing Slynt.  That's not a healthy way to lead.  If he had kept Slynt alive, somebody might have at least tried to talk sense into that thick head of his that leading an army of wildlings against the Warden of the North is not a good idea.  It should never have actually gone that far.  Jon should not have stuck his nose into Ramsay Bolton's business from the start.  But that's another topic. 

Harsh can be just.  But my main issue with Jon's handling of this matter is that he practiced double-standards.  Like so many of us have been saying for years.  Jon had a duty to those men to judge them fairly.  He didn't do that.  He let Mance Rayder go free. 

I guess you can break any rule you want, be guilty of the deaths of the men of the watch, and insubordination and get away with it if Jon likes you.  Step out of line for something minor and he takes your head, if he doesn't like you.  That's double-standards and it is wrong.  Jon was in the wrong. 

 

On 9/25/2020 at 8:26 AM, SeanF said:

Slynt was judged fairly.

In the case of Mance, he was a deserter from the Nights Watch, but he was not Jon's prisoner.  He was Stannis and Melisandre's.  Melisandre is responsible to Stannis for Mance.  There is also the practical issue that Mance can be put to good use by Melisandre  and Jon.  Slynt could not be.

Slynt did not get fair treatment.  Mance Rayder and Janos Slynt are sworn brothers of the Night's Watch. They are entitled to be treated and judged in the same way.  Jon was required by duty to judge them fairly.  Jon failed to do that because Jon was emotionally compromised.  Practical reasons do not overshadow the need for justice.  And I would argue against the practicality of it.  Murdering Janos Slynt did not bring on any kind of positive results.  

[Dracul's Daughter]

23 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

 

Slynt did not get fair treatment.  Mance Rayder and Janos Slynt are sworn brothers of the Night's Watch. They are entitled to be treated and judged in the same way.  Jon was required by duty to judge them fairly.  Jon failed to do that because Jon was emotionally compromised.  Practical reasons do not overshadow the need for justice.  And I would argue against the practicality of it.  Murdering Janos Slynt did not bring on any kind of positive results.  

Janos Slynt's duty as a sworn brother of the Night's Watch was to obey his Lord Commander.He was given two chances.He did not obey and he defied Jon so he got his head chopped off.

[Wolfking007]

Slynt was a useless SoB and deserved to be executed. Only reason why anybody has complaints about it is because he was beheaded by a Stark. If it was Mormont who sentenced him, noone would have mentioned it. 

I'm glad that it was someone from Stark "household" that did the deed though, seems like poetic justice 

[Darth Sidious]

The execution of Janos Slynt was not just.  It was an insult to justice committed by Jon Snow.  Not only that, it was a move that has already been proven stupid.  If it was a smart move then the situation would not have gotten as bad as it did towards the latter parts of A Dance with Dragons.  Jon was spiraling into emotional instability and it began with his execution of Janos Slynt.  He was too emotionally attached to the Starks and his decisions got worse over the course of his last chapters.  His leadership became corrupt.  He allowed a known criminal (Mance Rayder) to not only go unpunished but sent him on a mission to get his married sister away from her husband.  Power corrupted Jon Snow.  Janos Slynt is an asshole but so is Jon Snow.  JS and JS are both assholes.  If being an asshole is an automatic death sentence, Jon would never have made it past training with his head attached.  What Jon did to Janos was an abuse and misuse of power.  Power corrupted Jon Snow and he used that power to get revenge for what happened to his family.  Poor Janos was the victim of Jon's blood thirst for his old family's enemies.

[Nathan Stark]

23 hours ago, Roswell said:

@Nathan Stark Mance is the most insubordinate, most disrespectful man to ever wear the black.  Jon gave him a pass after he killed Slynt for a lesser crime.  Jon had a choice and he chose poorly.  Jon was far from respectful towards his training officers and he was not executed for it.  The execution of Janos Slynt was wrong.  It happened because Jon was not a good commander.  Jon's judgement was affected by his feelings for the men who he was supposed to judge fairly.  

That's like, your opinion man. I'm working off what's actually in the text. Mance was Stannis's captive, and was therefore Stannis's responsibility, not Jon's. Slyny disobeyed a direct order by his Lord Commander. The Stark haters all seem to think that the Nights Watch is a democracy just because the brothers elect their leader, and use this an an excuse for why Jon is supposedly a "tyrant." No. The Nights Watch is a military order. And in the military, the commanding officer's word is to be obeyed, to the letter, without question. Or else all cohesion and order breaks down. Slynt disobeyed the direct orders given to him by his commanding officer. He was given a second opportunity to obey those orders. He again refused. He paid the consequences of his own disobedience. End of story.

[TheLastWolf]

16 hours ago, Rondo said:

Jon was wrong to kill Slynt.  

After I read this, I didn't even bother to read the rest before coming here to quote you and say how one can't expect better from haters and such. But that wouldn't have been fair, so I went back to read the whole post in the hope that there might be some valid points (not haters' rantings)....but I was sadly disappointed, as usual. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

16 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

16 hours ago, Rondo said:

Jon was wrong to kill Slynt.  
 

Nope, Jon was right to execute Slynt

Yep and have agreed since I read the chapter of poor Janos's death.

 

16 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Oh well, I imagine you won’t enjoy TWoW much.

U can't be more right

[SeanF]

Frankly, I think Jon should have nailed Slynt’s head to his battle standard.

[Dracul's Daughter]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Frankly, I think Jon should have nailed Slynt’s head to his battle standard.

Or,bring Janos back to life to chop his head again but he doesn't deserve people to bother that much for him.

[Dracul's Daughter]

13 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Poor Janos was the victim of Jon's blood thirst for his old family's enemies.

A momen of silence for this man's grief.Even c**ts deserve to be mourned.Somebody has to love the Janos Slynt of this world.

[SeanF]

29 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said:

Or,bring Janos back to life to chop his head again but he doesn't deserve people to bother that much for him.

Basically, I’m hoping Jon is like The Bloody Nine when he returns to life.

[Dracul's Daughter]

25 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Basically, I’m hoping Jon is like The Bloody Nine when he returns to life.

We'll see.

[Azarial]

I'm noticing a trend. Any post that uses facts, quotes, and proof is ignored by the Jon haters, coincidence? I'm just waiting until Dance where Dany starts breaking vows she made prior to the dragon pit, executes people working against her like the green grace whom are supposedly helping her(Janos/Thorne), not send Dario and co back to the Yunki etc, (Alys Karstark) and Freeing Jorah and Tyrion from slavery despite vowing not to free slaves belonging to those outside her gates (Jeyne/Theon) so I can laugh and call them all out on being hypocrites when they praise her for it. Unless they think she'll send Tyrion and Jorah back, send Dario back, and continue working with the Green grace!  Please George write faster because I'm going to enjoy this!

[SeanF]

21 hours ago, Dracul's Daughter said:

We'll see.

"You want to impress a girl, you bring her a bunch of flowers.  You want to impress Jon Snow, the King in the North, you bring a sack o' heads."

[Dracul's Daughter]

44 minutes ago, SeanF said:

"You want to impress a girl, you bring her a bunch of flowers.  You want to impress Jon Snow, the King in the North, you bring a sack o' heads."

Then I will love Jon even more.

[Son of Man]

On 9/25/2020 at 2:05 AM, Bernie Mac said:

Yes we do.

"As you will." Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. "Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—"

—and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again.

—and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him?

"—and hang him," Jon finished.

 

It took Jon literally a split second to go from thinking off-putting him in a cell for a day to executing him.

 

That is truly fucked up. Horrific. An abuse of power by someone getting even on a person who he hated and fantasized about chopping his head off even before he refused an order. Jon is getting to make the fantasy he had at the beginning of the chapter.

 

Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well.

 

Pragmatically it was the right thing to do, Slynt may well have been a problem for Jon in the future. But his execution had little to do with him refusing an order, he was killed for what he did in his past life, before he joined the Watch, and what Jon feared he would do in the future.

 

Or what Jon convinced himself Slynt might do in the future.  Jon was making stuff up in his own mind to justify what he wanted to do to Slynt.

[SeanF]

Jon ought to have acted like one of the Starks of old;  hanging Slynt up by his own entrails, above the entrance to Castle Black, with his scrotum in his mouth.