Why do so many people think that Jon and Val will be a thing?

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 10/2/2020 at 4:13 AM, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

Where´d you get that ? I searched for a while, but I didn´t find any evidence about Vals age.

On 10/1/2020 at 10:09 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

Val is a great match for Jon, and there is no chance that they're twins, since Val is over 20 already, while Jon is 16 at the time of the assasination.

We do not know Val's exact age, but I would have to agree with @Daeron the Daring that Val is in her twenties.

On 10/1/2020 at 9:40 AM, Lord Lannister said:

I think Val is Jon's best option for a seemingly "normal" relationship and they clearly get along and are attracted. He could even be said to have taken her when he took her prisoner. 

 

Using Ygritte's logic, yes, he could be said to have taken her. I also agree, Val and Jon would be the most normal relationship possible. They already have a certain chemistry. They would be a handsome couple. 

 

On 10/1/2020 at 9:40 AM, Lord Lannister said:

 After all a husband and wife can't be truly close unless they were already family to begin with. 

Ick. Ick. Ick. Please, no. Gross. 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

I recently read several articles about it and I am convinced that Val is an archetype character in GRRM books and she is destined to be with Jon in the end. Furthermore she is the only one who has a great deal of text clues pointing to her direction.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

I mean Dany's' already had two husbands. it wouldn't the weird for them to get to together and she could still die later on. if Jon does become king beyond the wall then she also makes an appropriate consort.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

3 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

I mean Dany's' already had two husbands. it wouldn't the weird for them to get to together and she could still die later on. if Jon does become king beyond the wall then she also makes an appropriate consort.

There is no need for them to be beyond the Wall. Nymeria came to Westeros with her people and married with a native Westerosi. Why not a woman of the Free Folk coming to South of the Wall with her people and marrying a Southern?

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

I think no one gets a "couple" happy ending like that. 

[Hugorfonics]

14 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

There is no need for them to be beyond the Wall. Nymeria came to Westeros with her people and married with a native Westerosi. Why not a woman of the Free Folk coming to South of the Wall with her people and marrying a Southern?

 

The difference is Nymeria was a queen who had the respect and commitment of all her peoples. Val is nothing, sister in law to the late king. Its like Jeyne Westerlings sister commanding the north, with all its inner politics in play.

I never understood the fandoms Stannis like obsession that Val has any political bearing aside from being a spearwife with a pretty smile

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

13 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

The difference is Nymeria was a queen who had the respect and commitment of all her peoples. Val is nothing, sister in law to the late king. Its like Jeyne Westerlings sister commanding the north, with all its inner politics in play.

I never understood the fandoms Stannis like obsession that Val has any political bearing aside from being a spearwife with a pretty smile

She must have some power or else she wouldn't have been able to bring Tormund. We haven't seen how the social structure of the Free Folk society works but I don't think that a sister in law with a pretty smile would had been successful at bringing the Free Folk to bend the knee to the same people that beat them mere weeks or months earlier.

[Hugorfonics]

33 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

She must have some power or else she wouldn't have been able to bring Tormund. We haven't seen how the social structure of the Free Folk society works but I don't think that a sister in law with a pretty smile would had been successful at bringing the Free Folk to bend the knee to the same people that beat them mere weeks or months earlier.

I think anybody thats not named Janos Slynt had a good chance of bringing in Tormund and co, Jons terms werent that terrible and the alternative is fighting a war already decided or other problems. Plus more then just the freefolk took Jons deal

We do see how free folk society works, its fuck you I dont feel like it, until theyre held at sword point. They follow power like any Varys riddle. They dont follow blood, let alone sister in law blood, as Jon reminds Stannis time and again. And they certainly dont follow the hereditary crowns consort as Jon again reminds us

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

38 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think anybody thats not named Janos Slynt had a good chance of bringing in Tormund and co, Jons terms werent that terrible and the alternative is fighting a war already decided or other problems. Plus more then just the freefolk took Jons deal

We do see how free folk society works, its fuck you I dont feel like it, until theyre held at sword point. They follow power like any Varys riddle. They dont follow blood, let alone sister in law blood, as Jon reminds Stannis time and again. And they certainly dont follow the hereditary crowns consort as Jon again reminds us

I agree that their society is like that and that is exactly my point. If she had no power then she wouldn’t had been able to bring him. Because for the Free Folk to bend the knee is huge and it would take someone with a special standing to persuade them. She doesn’t have to be a Queen, yet, or a Lady. She can be a priestess, healer or some kind of wood witch with a special connection with the Gods. There are more positions of power in a society than we may think.

[Jaenara Belarys]

4 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

She doesn’t have to be a Queen, yet, or a Lady. She can be a priestess, healer or some kind of shaman with a special connection with the Gods. There are more positions of power in a society than we may think.

But we never hear about her being a priestess (honestly, I can't picture Val as a priestess), healer or shaman. It doesn't mean that she isn't, though.

 

38 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think anybody thats not named Janos Slynt had a good chance of bringing in Tormund and co

Yep. Remember in aSoS when that fool Slynt said that there's no hope that Mance Rayder will win now "that Janos Slynt has come"? 

[Northern Sword]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:12 PM, Curled Finger said:

I think there are a lot of possible matchups smashups? for all these characters in some readers' eyes.  I read for mystery and magic and a good scare, some read for the romance factor.  I hope Jon doesn't get caught up in anything other than sorting himself out for a long long time when he comes around.  I think Val is good for him, like Tormund is good for him or Edd.  You know, good soldiers who can think things through and get things done.   It wouldn't be terrible if Val just got to be part of the cure instead of some tragic love interest.  She's pretty spunky as this story goes.  

One idea I don't think gets as much chatter as it maybe should is Val's brand of magic and the role she could have in bringing Jon around.  Jon is in a whole different place than any character we've read yet.  

I like it. I want to see Jon with Val. Yet, she could be super important as a healer/priestess/representative of the wildlings. 
 

I could see a scenario, where the Mel AND Val are involved with the resurrection. They both recognize who he is.  Throw in a dire wolf and bran lurking in the background. A lot of varying interests lead to Jon. The Starks, Stannis, Val, Mel, the wildings, the North, Dany, Robb’s will, and the NW all lead to Jon. A resurrected Jon with the power of the old gods, ice and fire. 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

But we never hear about her being a priestess (honestly, I can't picture Val as a priestess), healer or shaman. It doesn't mean that she isn't, though.

 

Yep. Remember in aSoS when that fool Slynt said that there's no hope that Mance Rayder will win now "that Janos Slynt has come"? 

Have we seen any priest or any human connected with the Old Gods? Val has many things around her that point out her uniqueness. From the nearly ceremonial clothes, how she knows things before they happen, how she seems to have enough power to convince some fiercely independent people to bend their knee to their enemy, even her name. Nothing about her points to her being the typical Free Folk type of woman.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Have we seen any priest or any human connected with the Old Gods? Val has many things around her that point out her uniqueness. From the nearly ceremonial clothes, how she knows things before they happen, how she seems to have enough power to convince some fiercely independent people to bend their knee to their enemy, even her name. Nothing about her points to her being the typical Free Folk type of woman.

I've actually read some theories saying just that. the fact that her sister had knowledge of magic being a sword without a hilt is supposedly evidence to some old knowledge of the wildings that her family inherited. 

I can't find the original so I'll just quote an old post made by user: THE FATTEST LEECH

"

Val will be majorly important. GRRM stated a long time ago that his characters and the story will be introduced in three 'waves'. She was introduced as part of the second act. I could talk about Val for days! You are correct, we have little info on her, but what we do have is already immense and will just point out a few things to start with:

1. Val is a healer and of the Old Gods, as Jon sees Ghost is and then realizes that he, himself, is also of the Old Gods.
2. Having  healer of the Old Gods like Val and Morna white mask around while you are stabbed to death is going to come in way more useful than what Mel has to offer.
3. Jon is also starting to see himself more a wildling by the mid- end of Dance.
4. Val sings to the "Little Monster" and we have already seen in Essos and Westeros that different witches sing spells. Val is protecting the wildling baby because she knows she has to leave and she wants the baby safe. She passes it off to Jon playfully as , "I can't help it if the baby happens to hear me sing."
5. Jon has a romantic thing for her but feels he is not worthy on some level because he is a bastard. Honestly, the way Jon feels about himself compared to Val and the whole highborn-prince-princess thing could be a thread on it's own. The phrase "you know nothing Jon Snow" carries over to here. Jon still knows nothing about himself and how he would be worthy of the wildling princess. (He is the prince that was promised).
6. Jon already "stole" Val when Stannis came riding in and sacked Mance's camp outside the wall. Val asks about Jarl and this event twice (?) just to make sure. Again, "you know nothing Jon Snow" because he is the only one that does not see it yet.
7. Most importantly, she is well respected within the entire wilding community and can travel unmolested and even aided by different clans. When Jon secretly sends her out, she comes back as promised and when promised. She is competent and loyal. 
8. The passage I put below shows how Jon thinks of Val, and what he wants long term. But again, we the readers know what Jon is still blind to. He needs to still open his eyes like Ghost when he found the wolf as a pup. Ghost was the only one with his eyes already open.
9. Ghost really likes her, and we all know that if your dog doesn't like your girlfriend/boyfriend, then it's time to break up 
   1. Mel uses potions and Magic once to fool Ghost into coming over to her while Mel used a "small" glamour to make herself look like Ygritte for a moment to lure Jon over to her. This was a false disguise. Val was true.
10. ADDING: When Jon stole Val, the constellation "Thief" was in the "Moonmaid". Mormont's raven calls Jon a "thief" several times.
    1. Jon refers to Val looking very "moonish" and silvery when their breath mingles in the air. Again with the repetition of the Moon and Stars attraction theme for the main characters in the story.
11. Stannis sees the high worth of Val and tries to marry her off to the higherborn knights in his service. We all know that ain't happening! Jon does know this... which is very curious. But no matter, because whoever Stannis puts in Winterfell, Val comes with the castle."

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

2 hours ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

I can't find the original so I'll just quote an old post made by user: THE FATTEST LEECH

I agree.  @The Fattest Leech's analysis are amazing, always on point and they are always connected perfectly.

[Lady_Qohor]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:17 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I think no one gets a "couple" happy ending like that. 

Agree, while there may be a few background characters that end up in functioning relationships, I don't think this series ends with the heros walking off into the sunset hand in hand

[Lord Varys]

Val is at best Jon's Daario or Harrold Hardyng. They may have sex at one point, but she is ultimately going to die.

I'm more in the Jon-Satin shipping team. I'd like to Satin as Jon's nurse after his resurrection and them bonding over that.

[Rose of Red Lake]

55 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Val is at best Jon's Daario or Harrold Hardyng. They may have sex at one point, but she is ultimately going to die.

If I remember correctly, the "Val" in Fever Dream died off screen so I agree.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

If I remember correctly, the "Val" in Fever Dream died off screen so I agree.

In Nightflyers Val survives and stays with Jon until the end of her days.

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

If I remember correctly, the "Val" in Fever Dream died off screen so I agree.

There is no Val in Fevre Dream. Rather a version of Ashara Dayne who dies. But that doesn't have any bearing on ASoIaF.

58 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

In Nightflyers Val survives and stays with Jon until the end of her days.

Melantha Jhirl is no version of Val, either.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

Just now, Lord Varys said:

Melantha Jhirl is no version of Val, either.

I may be wrong but I am completely persuaded that Melantha is the Val archetype.