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Why do so many people think that Jon and Val will be a thing?


Alyn Oakenfist

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4 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

I may be wrong but I am completely persuaded that Melantha is the Val archetype.

Melantha is powerfully built superwoman from Prometheus which is a society where they genetically enhance their people - which they may also have done magically in Valyria. She is also black. She has pretty much nothing in common with Val.

And Royd Eris, the guy with whom she may spend the rest of her life, is the male clone of his mad mother ... and he is dead in the end, only his consciousness survives as part of his ship. He obviously has also nothing in common with Jon Snow - who isn't weird clone unable to interact with normal people because his weak immune system.

Val as this ice queen prototype is, perhaps, sort of present in the girl Addara from 'The Ice Dragon' ... before the dragon's dead and she becomes 'normal'.

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16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Melantha is powerfully built superwoman from Prometheus which is a society where they genetically enhance their people - which they may also have done magically in Valyria. She is also black. She has pretty much nothing in common with Val.

And Royd Eris, the guy with whom she may spend the rest of her life, is the male clone of his mad mother ... and he is dead in the end, only his consciousness survives as part of his ship. He obviously has also nothing in common with Jon Snow - who isn't weird clone unable to interact with normal people because his weak immune system.

Val as this ice queen prototype is, perhaps, sort of present in the girl Addara from 'The Ice Dragon' ... before the dragon's dead and she becomes 'normal'.

I know all these and I still disagree. All the videos and articles I have read on this had me persuaded.

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3 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

I know all these and I still disagree. All the videos and articles I have read on this had me persuaded.

I'd suggest you better read the actual story.

But this kind of 'obscure parallels' or whatnot really confuses things because there are actual real and easily recognizable parallels between certain characters/settings in George's works you just notice immediately when reading things.

You don't need anybody explaining this to you, it just hits you.

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14 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd suggest you better read the actual story.

But this kind of 'obscure parallels' or whatnot really confuses things because there are actual real and easily recognizable parallels between certain characters/settings in George's works you just notice immediately when reading things.

You don't need anybody explaining this to you, it just hits you.

I will do that agaun ten tooo check if what I believe is right or not.

10 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Too happy, especially for a main character whose ending will set the tone. Happily ever afters isn't what the series is about. 

What is a happy ending is not based only on one thing. Jon ending up on the Throne it will not be a happy ending for him but marrying Val is going to be a happy end. Which one of the two outweighs the other?

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2 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

What is a happy ending is not based only on one thing. Jon ending up on the Throne it will not be a happy ending for him but marrying Val is going to be a happy end. Which one of the two outweighs the other?

Val and Jon might have sex ... but marriage? Please, they are adults.

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59 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Val and Jon might have sex ... but marriage? Please, they are adults.

On that one we disagree and there is no possibility of us ever agreeing I am afraid. Val has so many text clues about being Jon’s endgame that I don’t think that I will ever change my mind until GRRM finishes the series.

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21 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

On that one we disagree and there is no possibility of us ever agreeing I am afraid. Val has so many text clues about being Jon’s endgame that I don’t think that I will ever change my mind until GRRM finishes the series.

The point is that it is ridiculous to assume that Jon and Val both would care about being married if they were together. Why would they do that?

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

The point is that it is ridiculous to assume that Jon and Val both would care about being married if they were together. Why would they do that?

Because they live in a Medieval society and Jon is destined for the Throne with Val on his side. They don't live in 21st century earth.

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10 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Jon has more clues about being the King. Bran will be a guardian.

I thought this would be the case at one point too! But now I'm willing to admit I was wrong based on new information. Which I will not mention here but I'm sure you can figure out what I'm referring to :D

I don't think we've had a "king who never was" (IT wise) but it seems fitting for Jon.

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3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I thought this would be the case at one point too! But now I'm willing to admit I was wrong based on new information. Which I will not mention here but I'm sure you can figure out what I'm referring to :D

I don't think we've had a "king who never was" (IT wise) but it seems fitting for Jon.

jon can always end up as king in the north...

Honeslty, if your source of info is correct the best way I can see it happening is if bran wargs into faegon permantly and lets the north separate under jon.

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35 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I think he gets the Frodo ending...

frodo went to the magical lands of the elves that sound amazing.

Ending up surrounded by criminals, rapists, canibals, iliterates and who knows what else in a land nobody wants to be in because it is always freezing sounds much more like dante than frodo...

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

frodo went to the magical lands of the elves that sound amazing.

Ending up surrounded by criminals, rapists, canibals, iliterates and who knows what else in a land nobody wants to be in because it is always freezing sounds much more like dante than frodo..

well, that's a take. 

Why not look at how the author felt? "Frodo didn’t live happily ever after or marry a nice girl hobbit. He was permanently wounded; he was damaged...There was a real cost to Tolkien’s world. There’s a tremendous sadness at the end of Lord of the Rings"

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1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

well, that's a take. 

Why not look at how the author felt? "Frodo didn’t live happily ever after or marry a nice girl hobbit. He was permanently wounded; he was damaged...There was a real cost to Tolkien’s world. There’s a tremendous sadness at the end of Lord of the Rings"

Ok, but did anyone else feel that? I am asking out of pure curiosity. Does frodo's ending feel sad to anyone else?

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37 minutes ago, divica said:

Ok, but did anyone else feel that? I am asking out of pure curiosity. Does frodo's ending feel sad to anyone else?

Absolutely. Sam, Pippin, and Merry were all sorry to see their friend leave forever. Though Sam technically was a ringbearer for a brief period, and got to travel into the West in his old age. Point is that the Scouring of the Shire and Frodo's departure is a bittersweet ending, one that George R. R. Martin has specifically stated he hopes to pattern his ending after.

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10 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Absolutely. Sam, Pippin, and Merry were all sorry to see their friend leave forever. Though Sam technically was a ringbearer for a brief period, and got to travel into the West in his old age. Point is that the Scouring of the Shire and Frodo's departure is a bittersweet ending, one that George R. R. Martin has specifically stated he hopes to pattern his ending after.

But as a reader you felt sad for frodo? Like was it bad for him to go with the elves?

 

edit: and anyone can compare elves and magical amazing lands to wildlings (criminals,canibals, rapists, iliterates, cruel) and a frozen place that not even the wildlings like and makes for a hard living? And I am not even starting on why would the wildlings return north of the wall and how sad THAT would be

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