Impmk2 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 On 10/17/2020 at 2:55 PM, Castellan said: Are they doing any testing of wastewater for COVID in the US or UK? They are doing it in Australia mainly for rural towns. Sometimes there are officially no cases but they find it. It could be from people who never knew they had it. It's quite a good a lesson that the virus does get around. This was 4 months of my life from April - July (we've dropped it now as the funding and politics got too difficult and so we're just finishing writing up a paper of our methodology). Couple of limitations of the waste water epidemiological approach which often aren't mentioned in media: a) When case numbers are so low (like they are especially in regional Australia) the occasional false positive really stands out. And you do get the occasional false positive. b) People can shed virus in faeces for several weeks after their infectious period ends. So while sure a positive test should be followed up with extensive community testing, quite often it can just be a case of someone being released from quarantine while still shedding virus, or a false positive. You really need several increasingly positive tests in a row to be sure it's getting established in a community. It's a pretty useful approach for getting on top of things early, but in the US / UK at the moment I'm sure their water would just light up like a Christmas tree right now and not tell you much. Most you could use it to assess the relative prevalence in the community, which at the levels they're seeing just normal testing can do more accurately. Anyway, I know there was at least 1 group in the US monitoring in April, read a couple of their papers, I would be surprised if they haven't continued, probably getting drowned out amongst the rest of the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Zorral said: responsibility or practice any safety measure coz that takes away my freedom." While, of course, their freedom means, not only other people getting sick, including the health care system people taking care of those who refuse to have their freedom infringed upon -- and even ultimately, what is at the very least, if not murder, man slaughter. Funny how nobody wants the 'government' to fund or manage the virus, yet expect the government in one way and another to take care of them when they get sick and infect others, including the people they expect to nurse and doctor them. It is weird because I think the great majority of people in my country and others actually want to cooperate for the common good. I just think the US has an aweful lot of plain pig ignorant people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Impmk2 said: This was 4 months of my life from April - July (we've dropped it now as the funding and politics got too difficult and so we're just finishing writing up a paper of our methodology). Couple of limitations of the waste water epidemiological approach which often aren't mentioned in media: a) When case numbers are so low (like they are especially in regional Australia) the occasional false positive really stands out. And you do get the occasional false positive. b) People can shed virus in faeces for several weeks after their infectious period ends. So while sure a positive test should be followed up with extensive community testing, quite often it can just be a case of someone being released from quarantine while still shedding virus, or a false positive. You really need several increasingly positive tests in a row to be sure it's getting established in a community. It's a pretty useful approach for getting on top of things early, but in the US / UK at the moment I'm sure their water would just light up like a Christmas tree right now and not tell you much. Most you could use it to assess the relative prevalence in the community, which at the levels they're seeing just normal testing can do more accurately. Anyway, I know there was at least 1 group in the US monitoring in April, read a couple of their papers, I would be surprised if they haven't continued, probably getting drowned out amongst the rest of the noise. In the reports I have read they have issued the caveat that it doesn't mean there are active cases because of virus shedding and also that can get false positives. I did not think it was followed up with extensive testing but I may just have missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impmk2 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 44 minutes ago, Castellan said: In the reports I have read they have issued the caveat that it doesn't mean there are active cases because of virus shedding and also that can get false positives. I did not think it was followed up with extensive testing but I may just have missed that. So I know here in SA when there was a positive wastewater test in the Barossa they set up a mobile clinic and encouraged locals to get tested. As far as I know nothing came of it. I assume that'd be the standard response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Impmk2 said: So I know here in SA when there was a positive wastewater test in the Barossa they set up a mobile clinic and encouraged locals to get tested. As far as I know nothing came of it. I assume that'd be the standard response. Yes probably. So not really a useful tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impmk2 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, Castellan said: Yes probably. So not really a useful tool? Wouldn't say that. It does have at least the potential (with a bit of luck) to pick up clusters before regular testing in places with very low case numbers. However there are some pretty significant limitations in practice - it's not a magic bullet. There's also a bit on the technical side which still needs to be worked out / standardized as far as the methodology, largely around the sampling and virus concentration protocols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzin Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 On 10/18/2020 at 7:20 PM, Clueless Northman said: The list of competent governments has grown quite thin in 2020. Hopefully, there will be a payback when elections come - no reason only NZ can be sensible in this way... I'm pretty shocked at people living in developed countries saying they cant' get tested, even when they've been in contact with an infected person! China has had on demand testing for months now you go in pay $15 bucks and then get your results the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Testing time for me today as my sense of taste has gone. The (UK) government seems to have got its act together since the shambolic news a month or so ago - I got a test booked at the nearest centre with an appointment time just over an hour after I booked it. Still could be waiting up to 72 hours for the results though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Denvek said: Testing time for me today as my sense of taste has gone. The (UK) government seems to have got its act together since the shambolic news a month or so ago - I got a test booked at the nearest centre with an appointment time just over an hour after I booked it. Still could be waiting up to 72 hours for the results though. Oh hell. Keeping my fingers crossed for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Covid finally starting to freaky impact the job, which was already impacted...three managers furloughed today, two of which were my department. They were told its until at least July 16th... who the hell furloughs that long and survives? Mind you, I'm not sure I'll not be furloughed at Thanksgiving once the semester ends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 John M. Barry patiently explains yet once again why 'herd immunity' is no immunity at all, but an evil fantasy that is essentially mass murder, and accompanied by the hand maiden that is mass maiming of the health of millions more for the rest of their lives. Nor does it 'save the economy' -- except, for those who are possessors already of such bloated fortune that has nothing whatsoever to do with 'the economy' at all, as it neither creates nor invests or produces anything useful at all, not even infrastructure. Barry's professor at the Tulane University School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine and the author of “The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History.” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/opinion/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Denvek said: Testing time for me today as my sense of taste has gone. The (UK) government seems to have got its act together since the shambolic news a month or so ago - I got a test booked at the nearest centre with an appointment time just over an hour after I booked it. Still could be waiting up to 72 hours for the results though. I hope the wait for the result isn't too long and it comes back negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Here is an interesting interview about where we've been, where we are and where we will go regarding the pandemic. Dr. Ian Lipkin is preeminent epidemiologist at Columbia University who is known as the "master virus hunter" for his decades-long work tracking infectious diseases, including West Nile virus and SARS. https://gothamist.com/news/master-virus-hunter-dr-ian-lipkin-deeply-concerned-about-covid-19-trajectory-nyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I just binge watched Utopia. At the beginning of each episode it had the disclaimer about not depicting any real events etc. Given the whole theme and plot of this series being about disease conspiracies, for the first time I can see sense in having that disclaimer. A new community case here a couple of days ago. A shipping engineer who had done some work on overseas freight vessels. These people have been subject to 2-weekly testing, but still it's a bit of a worry that there is enough interaction for such a person to get infected. I guess as holes get plugged new ones crop up. Just got to hope that the holes get smaller and smaller and easier to contain. Jeepers! Over 200 people in Victoria Covid-19 quarantine potentially exposed to HIV, Hep B and Hep C because of blood glucose testing re-using the thumb pricker. How re-use of a thumb pricker could happen is one obvious question, but the other one is why are so many people in quarantine needing blood glucose testing? The article I read didn't explain why people were getting the test. Were all of those people diabetics? Well, so much for the notion of pre-departure testing as a way to reduce or eliminate quarantine on arrival: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123150584/covid19-major-outbreak-at-christchurch-isolation-facility-housing-dozens-of-international-fishermen All eleven positive tested people tested negative on departure from their home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 7 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: Jeepers! Over 200 people in Victoria Covid-19 quarantine potentially exposed to HIV, Hep B and Hep C because of blood glucose testing re-using the thumb pricker. How re-use of a thumb pricker could happen is one obvious question, but the other one is why are so many people in quarantine needing blood glucose testing? The article I read didn't explain why people were getting the test. Were all of those people diabetics? WTF? In which century are we? Let me check just in case. Nope, we are still in the 21st century. I'd guess they wanted to know things in advance in case one needs hospitalization, but with so much incompetence around, it's hard to be sure. I mean, NZ has been an example to the world, but the bar is really set so low. Let's not even talk about US, these are things happening in enlightened, modern and developed Europe. - People told to use public transport to get a test. - School kids freezing in the classrooms because the main measure is to keep the windows constantly open. Nobody even attempted to suggest to invest in a better ventilation system and install them during the summer. It's not even that cold, yet! Of course bars and restaurants remain open but calls to close the schools are constantly heard. - The number are rising, it was expected, fine, let's try to manage it but protect the vulnerable. Nope. Several nursing homes have already outbreaks, which can only lead to more death. The staff was already overburdened and underpaid before the pandemic. No one "thought" to improve their conditions for this winter. Same for health care workers. Many elderly people not living by their own, still need to fend by themselves as there is no additional support. - Oh, they are discovering traceability! Please someone tell them that it works well when case load is low. Germany for instance is going to use several thousands of soldiers, but they have no training yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Indeed the first wave lockdowns were meant to buy time for a vaccine to be developed but also for test, track, trace and isolate systems to be developed an implemented, so that subsequent waves would be smaller, and lockdowns could be shorter and less restrictive. But it appears that time may have been squandered in many places and systems are not in place to control spread during the northern winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Covid tests for me and daughter negative her cough is still quite bad, and I’m bunged up, but at least appears ro just br a cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Just came back from the grocery store. Not toilet paper, no yeast. Eggs are running short ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 36 minutes ago, Loge said: Just came back from the grocery store. Not toilet paper, no yeast. Eggs are running short ... Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zorral said: Where are you located? Berlin, Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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