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Fragile Bird

Covid-19 #18: Everything Old is New Again!

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addresses an American COVID-19 denier at a press conference.

^^^^JFC it's so embarrassing that so many of these brain damaged wingnuts are from the same country as me!

Edited by DireWolfSpirit

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4 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

addresses an American COVID-19 denier at a press conference.

^^^^JFC it's so embarrassing that so many of these brain damaged wingnuts are from the same country as me!

We just ignore them, wear masks, step away from them (20 ft social distance) and carry on.

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Daughter (2 years old) developed a cough so going to grt her tested today :(

pretty sure its a cold as her nose has been  runny for days but need to check

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32 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Daughter (2 years old) developed a cough so going to grt her tested today :(

pretty sure its a cold as her nose has been  runny for days but need to check

Sure it will be fine. Whereas our daughter age 2 has to isolate as in contact with someone with positive test, but can't get one herself as she has no symptoms. So stuck in house for 2 weeks, which I get, but if you cant get test without symptoms then you could be isolating on repeat forever. 

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3 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Sure it will be fine. Whereas our daughter age 2 has to isolate as in contact with someone with positive test, but can't get one herself as she has no symptoms. So stuck in house for 2 weeks, which I get, but if you cant get test without symptoms then you could be isolating on repeat forever. 


Yeah. This’ll be her third test. 
stupid that you have to isolate for 2 weeks with no symptoms but because you  were in contact. If the government were competent there would be ample testing capacity. In Glasgow at least, there were plenty of free tests at the airport this morning. Not just lie and pretend you’ve all got coughs to grt tested?

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2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

stupid that you have to isolate for 2 weeks with no symptoms but because you  were in contact. If the government were competent there would be ample testing capacity. 

The list of competent governments has grown quite thin in 2020. Hopefully, there will be a payback when elections come - no reason only NZ can be sensible in this way...

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Daughter tested. We were the only ones at the drive-through centre at the airport; hoping for a quick turnaround so (all going well) we can put her back in nursery.

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One wonders if women's immune systems operate somewhat differently here has to do with how their bodies manage to retain that ultimate outside invader, a fetus, without dying (under proper conditions of course).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/10/17/coronavirus-men-immune-system/

This is what happens when the attitude to the virus is "let 'er rip! ain't gonna take any personal responsibility or practice any safety measure coz that takes away my freedom."  While, of course, their freedom means, not only other people getting sick, including the health care system people taking care of those who refuse to have their freedom infringed upon -- and even ultimately, what is at the very least, if not murder, man slaughter.  Funny how nobody wants the 'government' to fund or manage the virus, yet expect the government in one way and another to take care of them when they get sick and infect others, including the people they expect to nurse and doctor them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/17/sturgis-rally-spread/

Quote

 

....Hospitals have seen the effects. David Basel, vice president of clinical quality at Avera Medical Group, which has locations on the east side of the state, said on Sept. 30 that facilities had been “busy, and we’re feeling it.” Covid-19 cases make up 10 percent of patients, he said.

“The thing that quite honestly scares us most is personnel,” he said. “If we started to lose personnel to them coming down with covid, that would be probably the biggest risk to us.”....

.... Cervantes [Sturgis attendee, despite his public health worker partner begging him not to, came home sick, infected her and other members of his family] now looks at things differently. Watching football, he worried how many of the thousands of fans admitted to a recent Kansas City Chiefs game might become infected, even as he noticed they sat apart. He once put on a mask to humor Balcom; now he says he has to resist the urge to yell at strangers to wear them.

After weeks of missed work, his stint in the hospital and a return visit to the ER over a blood clot concern, he’s come to deeply regret his decision.

“I was naive,” he said. “I was dumb, you know? I shouldn’t have went. I did; I can’t change that, so I just got to move forward. But sitting here just the past few days, that’s all I keep thinking about. I’m like, Jesus, look at the hell I’m going through, the hell I put everybody through. It ain’t worth it. It wasn’t. It really wasn’t.”

 


 

Among the commonalities in the second and third linked reports is the gub of South Dakota hand waving away the fact her state, with no rules or regulations or mandated masking indoors, is only second in the rapid and relentless rise of new cases to North Dakota, which also has no rules, regulations on distancing, gatherings of people, or mandated masking indoors, and bars and restaurants wide open:

Quote

 

....“We have triple the amount of testing that we’re doing in the state of South Dakota, which is why you’re seeing elevated positive cases,” she said. “That is normal. That’s natural. That’s expected.”

But a rise in tests would not explain why hospitalization and death rates have also spiked....

 

They also have the commonality that the medical personnel and institutions, tasked with caring for these new cases, then, are over-stretched, underfunded, exhausted, and then, themselves, getting sick themselves. Also the infected infecting their family members, other loved one and friends.

It these matters cannot teach people that leaving it to 'personal responsibility' means over-stretched, underfunded and even murder, then, of others -- nothing will.  As two of the articles also state, personal responsibility means "an attack on my freedumb." So, let 'er rip.

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What all Americans need to continue to hear.

Excellent messaging on Meet the Press from this infectious disease expert today. Totally repudiated the bullshit coming from the White House.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5f8c6e02c5b67da85d1f2d67

Sick situation where Americans need to actively counter their own governments messaging.

If you trust in your own elected national leadership, you will be putting yourself at higher risk.

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On 10/17/2020 at 3:46 PM, Zorral said:

Plus all the assholes from out-of-state maskless, parking in the cross walks and just sitting there daring you to object. But crime is going up, and this neighborhood with so many very rich visitors, attracts those who are more than willing to jack with gun and knife.

I'm curious what neighborhood or, if that's too detailed for anonymity, borough this is.

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Also I see that we've moved into the phase of this shitshow where all major news outlets are running the 2020 version of the "friendly neighborhood neo-Nazi" profile, but this time it's "so I was a COVID denier and now I've killed my family and I feel real bad about it." 

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We all know about the people getting ill with the virus and suffering from it but of course unfortunately there are all the other victims of Covid who don't have the virus but are suffering none the less....yesterday in Bond Court in Cook County (the county Chicago is in) two absolutely vile men.

One up for repeatedly sexually assaulting his 14 year old step-daughter.  The mother worked days and was gone. The step-father worked nights so was home during the day.  The daughter was home during the day because Covid means school is online.  The poor girl.

The other case involved a 7 year old girl.  This is another incident involving a child home during the day because school is online.  She was at her grandmother's house.  Her sexual assault was livestreamed to her study hall because the man didn't realize her computer camera was on.  The study proctor saw it happening as did several other classmates.  This poor child.

So think of all the victims of domestic abuse and sexual violence because they have even more limited places to go during the virus and so many less opportunities to escape and go places safe.  Donating to a local domestic abuse shelter right now...  

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On 10/17/2020 at 2:55 PM, Castellan said:

Are they doing any testing of wastewater for COVID in the US or UK? They are doing it in Australia mainly for rural towns. Sometimes there are officially no cases but they find it. It could be from people who never knew they had it. It's quite a good a lesson that the virus does get around.

This was 4 months of my life from April - July (we've dropped it now as the funding and politics got too difficult and so we're just finishing writing up a paper of our methodology). Couple of limitations of the waste water epidemiological approach which often aren't mentioned in media:

a) When case numbers are so low (like they are especially in regional Australia) the occasional false positive really stands out. And you do get the occasional false positive.
b) People can shed virus in faeces for several weeks after their infectious period ends. 

So while sure a positive test should be followed up with extensive community testing, quite often it can just be a case of someone being released from quarantine while still shedding virus, or a false positive. You really need several increasingly positive tests in a row to be sure it's getting established in a community.

It's a pretty useful approach for getting on top of things early, but in the US / UK at the moment I'm sure their water would just light up like a Christmas tree right now and not tell you much. Most you could use it to assess the relative prevalence in the community, which at the levels they're seeing just normal testing can do more accurately. 

Anyway, I know there was at least 1 group in the US monitoring in April, read a couple of their papers, I would be surprised if they haven't continued, probably getting drowned out amongst the rest of the noise.

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7 hours ago, Zorral said:

responsibility or practice any safety measure coz that takes away my freedom."  While, of course, their freedom means, not only other people getting sick, including the health care system people taking care of those who refuse to have their freedom infringed upon -- and even ultimately, what is at the very least, if not murder, man slaughter.  Funny how nobody wants the 'government' to fund or manage the virus, yet expect the government in one way and another to take care of them when they get sick and infect others, including the people they expect to nurse and doctor them.

 

It is weird because I think the great majority of people in my country and others actually want to cooperate for the common good.

I just think the US has an aweful lot of plain pig ignorant people. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

This was 4 months of my life from April - July (we've dropped it now as the funding and politics got too difficult and so we're just finishing writing up a paper of our methodology). Couple of limitations of the waste water epidemiological approach which often aren't mentioned in media:

a) When case numbers are so low (like they are especially in regional Australia) the occasional false positive really stands out. And you do get the occasional false positive.
b) People can shed virus in faeces for several weeks after their infectious period ends. 

So while sure a positive test should be followed up with extensive community testing, quite often it can just be a case of someone being released from quarantine while still shedding virus, or a false positive. You really need several increasingly positive tests in a row to be sure it's getting established in a community.

It's a pretty useful approach for getting on top of things early, but in the US / UK at the moment I'm sure their water would just light up like a Christmas tree right now and not tell you much. Most you could use it to assess the relative prevalence in the community, which at the levels they're seeing just normal testing can do more accurately. 

Anyway, I know there was at least 1 group in the US monitoring in April, read a couple of their papers, I would be surprised if they haven't continued, probably getting drowned out amongst the rest of the noise.

In the reports I have read they have issued the caveat that it doesn't mean there are active cases because of virus shedding and also that can get false positives. I did not think it was followed up with extensive testing but I may just have missed that.

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44 minutes ago, Castellan said:

In the reports I have read they have issued the caveat that it doesn't mean there are active cases because of virus shedding and also that can get false positives. I did not think it was followed up with extensive testing but I may just have missed that.

So I know here in SA when there was a positive wastewater test in the Barossa they set up a mobile clinic and encouraged locals to get tested. As far as I know nothing came of it. I assume that'd be the standard response.

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22 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

So I know here in SA when there was a positive wastewater test in the Barossa they set up a mobile clinic and encouraged locals to get tested. As far as I know nothing came of it. I assume that'd be the standard response.

Yes probably. So not really a useful tool?

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42 minutes ago, Castellan said:

Yes probably. So not really a useful tool?

Wouldn't say that. It does have at least the potential (with a bit of luck) to pick up clusters before regular testing in places with very low case numbers. However there are some pretty significant limitations in practice - it's not a magic bullet.

There's also a bit on the technical side which still needs to be worked out / standardized as far as the methodology, largely around the sampling and virus concentration protocols. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 7:20 PM, Clueless Northman said:

The list of competent governments has grown quite thin in 2020. Hopefully, there will be a payback when elections come - no reason only NZ can be sensible in this way...

I'm pretty shocked at people living in developed countries saying they cant' get tested, even when they've been in contact with an infected person! China has had on demand testing for months now you go in pay $15 bucks and then get your results the next day. 

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Testing time for me today as my sense of taste has gone. The (UK) government seems to have got its act together since the shambolic news a month or so ago - I got a test booked at the nearest centre with an appointment time just over an hour after I booked it.

Still could be waiting up to 72 hours for the results though.

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