Jump to content

What's the weirdest debate you've ever seen on this forum?


Alyn Oakenfist

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

But, yeah, I'm kinda resigned to the fact we'll never get the GRRM ending. It would have been something similar to the HBO show ending but arrived at in a different and more motivated way.

I honestly don't think so. I'm one day probably going to do a whole massive thread discussion about my interpretation of the show and what we can deduce from it. The exception here is the political endgame that is a clusterfuck obtained by merging Cersei and fAegon and the fallout that creates affects the story so much that I doubt the ending is in any way shape or form the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'd also like to add Jonsa & Jonrya. Weird af.

This but I'd blow it up further. There's folks out there who see a strong connection between family members and equate that to romantic love in general, not just ASOIAF. Supernatural did a meta episode about fans who ship Sam and Dean.

------------------------------

More generally, when a discussion starts to feel less about ASOIAF and more like some sort of personal issue which should be discussed with a professional makes me feel very uncomfortable. Some topics kinda feel like they turn into amateur online psychotherapy between random strangers which isn't intended and is really not good.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Lollygag said:

This but I'd blow it up further. There's folks out there who see a strong connection between family members and equate that to romantic love in general, not just ASOIAF. Supernatural did a meta episode about fans who ship Sam and Dean.

Sweet Home Alabama!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'd also like to add Jonsa & Jonrya. Weird af.

Along with Sansrya.

6 hours ago, Lollygag said:

This but I'd blow it up further. There's folks out there who see a strong connection between family members and equate that to romantic love in general, not just ASOIAF. Supernatural did a meta episode about fans who ship Sam and Dean.

See above.  I've read people arguing online that at one point, where Arya thinks about wanting to hug and kiss Sansa, it proves that she harbours romantic feelings for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/23/2020 at 9:10 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

No, I don’t. I think cheating is cheating. If you have babies from cheating and you live in the middle ages, and tell the person you cheated on they are not your children, you are likely to get hanged as well as the possibility of the children being murdered. Granted moon tea (or whatever it is called) exists, but isn’t there at least a suggestion that Lysa’s reproductive ability was permanently ruined by the moon tea? Anyways cheating is cheating, I know you want to create a way for women’s cheating to be worse, but it’s not. I also think men who like immidietelu  abandon children they raised because they aren’t biologically theirs are bad people. Like : If I raised a kid for 10 years and found out they didn’t have my genes, they would still be my child. Robert didn’t treat his kids like crap because they were really Jaime’s, he was just a bad father. 

That’s just an incredible position to take. Cersei had no trouble taking moon tea to abort Roberts children. She deliberately passed off her inbred bastards as his kids. And yes, paternity fraud is far worse than male adultery.

The idea that a woman can cheat on her husband, get pregnant, pass off her other mans child as his and get two decades worth of child support is disgusting and evil. Men that walk out in those situations are 100% justified.

Robert didn’t treat his wife’s kids like crap either. He hit Joffrey once for cutting open a pregnant cat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/1/2020 at 2:49 PM, Lollygag said:

I remember one where a poster was insisting that Robb made Catelyn (assuming she'd have more kids) his heir as his remaining siblings were unacceptable or unavailable. The rationale for this was Robb didn't give a flying fig that the North and Winterfell would totally leave Stark hands and this was fine. It devolved into a stupid argument where the poster tried to get us to *prove* that the Westerosi really care about keeping things in the family which is what the books are all about with the Game of Thrones and all, but because such an obvious thing wasn't literally stated in black and white, he didn't care because it worked out for some sort of ends he favored.

 

Yes, that argument doesn't make any sense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/24/2020 at 9:13 PM, Lee-Sensei said:

That’s just an incredible position to take. Cersei had no trouble taking moon tea to abort Roberts children. She deliberately passed off her inbred bastards as his kids. And yes, paternity fraud is far worse than male adultery.

1. Hmm, I am pro choice, so yeah, I guess I am okay with a woman raped by a man choosing to abort those children. So are you saying you think women should be forced to carry their rapists children? (I am honestly asking, so don’t misunderstand this as aggressive. I want to know your opinion so I don’t misrepresent it.)

2. Yes, she did. I agree that Cersei is a bad person. I think any form of cheating and lying about that cheating is bad and hurtful. I don’t think Joffrey or Tommen should be King. Stannis should have inherited the Kingship. 

3. That is your opinion. I actually agree that it is worse, in this way. I would take it as 2 acts. First act is cheating, which I think is identical. Like say Cersei hadn’t have had Jaime’s children, but still had sex with him. No different of a situation. However, I will gran you paternity fraud is a “second” crime. However, here is where you might be ready for it : I think it is on the same level as being a deadbeat dad. Deadbeat dad = Paternity fraud. Now, question, are deadbeat dad’s imprisoned or killed for their actions? No, they aren’t right? So Cersei passing Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen as Robert’s = Robert producing tons of children and taking 0 responsibility for them (in my eyes). 

On 10/24/2020 at 9:13 PM, Lee-Sensei said:

The idea that a woman can cheat on her husband, get pregnant, pass off her other mans child as his and get two decades worth of child support is disgusting and evil. Men that walk out in those situations are 100% justified.

Lol. Abandoning the child you raised as your own makes you a shitty person. I agree with you they have no legal reason to stay. I didn’t say they should be legally held responsible. However, have you heard of love? lol. If it turned out my dad was not really my dad and he “disowned” me, then frankly, he is a shitty human being. He is my father no matter what a DNA test finds. I personally believe that my father is not a shitty person though, and that we would continue to have a relationship if that was the case (it isnt though, i look way too much like him lol). Two decades of child support lol. Yeah, that’s what I am upset about lol. Again. The children are not to blame. And I assume that most women who commit paternity fraud don’t know they are committing paternity fraud. They just cheated and don’t know who the father is. I would guess Cersei’s situation is outlandishly rare. 

On 10/24/2020 at 9:13 PM, Lee-Sensei said:

Robert didn’t treat his wife’s kids like crap either. He hit Joffrey once for cutting open a pregnant cat.

Oh boy. It is stated repeatedly that Robert did not have a relationship with his children. That is a shitty father. What do you think fatherhood is? Haha, paternity fraud is the worse thing ever you say, but apparently literally not having a relationship with your child = great and normal behavior. Eddard even mentions that Robert didn’t stick around with Maya because he went where people were smiling, so he was shitty to his biological children as well. Oh yeah, and abandoning most of your biological children = the pinnacle of goodness. 
I do not want to misinterpret you, so question Lee-Sensei : Do you think children are the responsibility of the woman who produces them and not also the men? There is two scenarios I see playing out here : 1. You are consistent and also think being a deadbeat dad is horrible. 2. You have a double standard and just always take the man’s side, and think women should be financially responsible for children and not men. Hope it is number 1. 

 

This debate about paternity fraud = One of the weirdest debates I’ve had. (for everyone else)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

1. Hmm, I am pro choice, so yeah, I guess I am okay with a woman raped by a man choosing to abort those children. So are you saying you think women should be forced to carry their rapists children? (I am honestly asking, so don’t misunderstand this as aggressive. I want to know your opinion so I don’t misrepresent it.)

2. Yes, she did. I agree that Cersei is a bad person. I think any form of cheating and lying about that cheating is bad and hurtful. I don’t think Joffrey or Tommen should be King. Stannis should have inherited the Kingship. 

3. That is your opinion. I actually agree that it is worse, in this way. I would take it as 2 acts. First act is cheating, which I think is identical. Like say Cersei hadn’t have had Jaime’s children, but still had sex with him. No different of a situation. However, I will gran you paternity fraud is a “second” crime. However, here is where you might be ready for it : I think it is on the same level as being a deadbeat dad. Deadbeat dad = Paternity fraud. Now, question, are deadbeat dad’s imprisoned or killed for their actions? No, they aren’t right? So Cersei passing Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen as Robert’s = Robert producing tons of children and taking 0 responsibility for them (in my eyes). 

Lol. Abandoning the child you raised as your own makes you a shitty person. I agree with you they have no legal reason to stay. I didn’t say they should be legally held responsible. However, have you heard of love? lol. If it turned out my dad was not really my dad and he “disowned” me, then frankly, he is a shitty human being. He is my father no matter what a DNA test finds. I personally believe that my father is not a shitty person though, and that we would continue to have a relationship if that was the case (it isnt though, i look way too much like him lol). Two decades of child support lol. Yeah, that’s what I am upset about lol. Again. The children are not to blame. And I assume that most women who commit paternity fraud don’t know they are committing paternity fraud. They just cheated and don’t know who the father is. I would guess Cersei’s situation is outlandishly rare. 

Oh boy. It is stated repeatedly that Robert did not have a relationship with his children. That is a shitty father. What do you think fatherhood is? Haha, paternity fraud is the worse thing ever you say, but apparently literally not having a relationship with your child = great and normal behavior. Eddard even mentions that Robert didn’t stick around with Maya because he went where people were smiling, so he was shitty to his biological children as well. Oh yeah, and abandoning most of your biological children = the pinnacle of goodness. 
I do not want to misinterpret you, so question Lee-Sensei : Do you think children are the responsibility of the woman who produces them and not also the men? There is two scenarios I see playing out here : 1. You are consistent and also think being a deadbeat dad is horrible. 2. You have a double standard and just always take the man’s side, and think women should be financially responsible for children and not men. Hope it is number 1. 

This debate about paternity fraud = One of the weirdest debates I’ve had. (for everyone else)

1) Maybe she shouldn’t have married him, right? There were plenty of people that wanted to. Instead she chose to abort his children, get pregnant with her brothers kids and then put them in the line of succession out of spite (which also put her bastards in danger and now they’re unlikely to survive until the end of the series). What I’m saying is that she chose to marry him and Robert has a right to have children and pass off his belongings to his own kids instead of his wife’s bastards.

Quote

“I will tell my aunt that I don't want to marry Robert. Not even the High Septon himself could declare a woman married if she refused to say the vows.”

She wanted to be Queen, so she married him. What she did was evil.

2) Robert gave Stannis Dragonstone. He wanted to pass his Kingdom on to his own children. He couldn’t, because his wife chose to abort his children and get pregnant with her brothers kids.

3) Do we even know that? Cersei threatened to kill his children if he brought them around (even though she was raising her bastards in his home). Mya lives at the Gates of the Moon, Edric lived at Storms End and Gendry had his apprentice fee payed for. It’s implied that Varys was behind it. Why would Varys pay Gendry apprentice fee? Maybe Robert asked him to see that his bastards were looked after or maybe he did it for some mysterious other reason. When he’s dying, his last words we’re asking Ned to look after his children though, so it’s very possible that he wanted them to be looked after.

4) Cersei did know that her bastards weren’t Roberts as you’ve said. She did it deliberately. And not knowing that a kid isn’t your husbands because you’re sleeping around is no excuse. At the very least, they know that it’s a possibility because they weren’t being faithful. Raising a child is time consuming work. Most likely, victims of paternity fraud will want to spend that time on their own children. It doesn’t matter if it’s not the children’s fault. It’s not the fathers fault either. It’s the wife’s fault for being unfaithful and deceiving him. There’s a difference between having step kids, adopted kids and paternity fraud. If the fathers had known the truth about these kids, they’d have probably never acted like parents in the first place. Does their consent not matter? Did Robert not have a right to know that he was raising inbred bastards after they fought a 2 year war against a Mad King born of incest? Don’t you think that he’d have liked to know that? It might explain a bit of Joffreys behaviour.

Quote

“I am sorry for your girl, Ned. Truly. About the wolf, I mean. My son was lying, I’d stake my soul on it. My son … you love your children, don’t you?”

“With all my heart,” Ned said.

“Let me tell you a secret, Ned. More than once, I have dreamed of giving up the crown. Take ship for the Free Cities with my horse and my hammer, spend my time warring and whoring, that’s what I was made for. The sellsword king, how the singers would love me. You know what stops me? The thought of Joffrey on the throne, with Cersei standing behind him whispering in his ear. My son. How could I have made a son like that, Ned?”

“He’s only a boy,” Ned said awkwardly. He had small liking for Prince Joffrey, but he could hear the pain in Robert’s voice. “Have you forgotten how wild you were at his age?”

“It would not trouble me if the boy was wild, Ned. You don’t know him as I do.” He sighed and shook his head.

6) That’s actually not what Ned says. He says that Robert doted on Mya long after he’d lost interest in her mother. Long enough for her to remember him, so about 3 years. Mya was born in 279. 3 years later was the start of a Roberts Rebellion and then he became King, so he couldn’t move around a lot. That’s not to say that he was a great parent, because I don’t think that he was. However, this is a distraction from the paternity fraud issue.

Quote

Ned remembered Robert's first child as well, a daughter born in the Vale when Robert was scarcely more than a boy himself. A sweet little girl; the young lord of Storm's End had doted on her. He used to make daily visits to play with the babe, long after he had lost interest in the mother. Ned was often dragged along for company, whether he willed it or not. The girl would be seventeen or eighteen now, he realized; older than Robert had been when he fathered her. A strange thought.

7) These are two different issues. Yes. Being a deadbeat dad is a bad thing, but it’s a different sin from paternity fraud. This especially true, because Cersei did it intentionally. We don’t know much about Roberts bastards. We only know 4 of them for sure. More over, he wasn’t a deadbeat dad to Cersei’s kids. They were living the life of royalty in his castle, because his wife decided to try and end his line.

Well. I agree with that much. It’s always utterly bizarre to watch people downplay paternity fraud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...