C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said: Even if she is inexplicably (from an in story perspective) absent, Bonnie is not definitely not nothing and she was born out of an act of self-sacrificial love. I really am surprised Harry didn't giver her to Maggie. You have a YA series about a girl, her half-sister Knowledge Spirit resource buddy, and their magic dog. Jim really screwed up by not naming her Athena, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I am partial to the name Sophie/Sophia myself. Calling her Athena might have drawn the attention of the real one and greek gods are not known for their patentience towards mortal hybris. (which such an act could definitely be interpreted as) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Harry: I named her after the Battlestar Galactica character! Billy: The new one or the Seventies one? Harry: There's a new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: Nothing Harry did with her accomplished anything and I feel like it was a plot that went nowhere. Are you forgetting Bonea? She’s “something” and clearly a product of the Lash storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 54 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Are you forgetting Bonea? She’s “something” and clearly a product of the Lash storyline. I admit, it seems like she's gone off the universe. I wonder if Jim literally forgot she existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: Lara Raith is hardly a sex object given that she is in control of every single one of her sexual encounters with the exception of her father (*squick*). Disagree. If you can exculpate her eating people by saying she's being force into it to survive, then her sexual encounters are coerced. If she can't wake up one day and say she doesn't feel like having sex without experiencing negative consequences, she's not in control of her sexual encounters. That's putting aside the male author having literal control over her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, AverageGuy said: Disagree. If you can exculpate her eating people by saying she's being force into it to survive, then her sexual encounters are coerced. If she can't wake up one day and say she doesn't feel like having sex without experiencing negative consequences, she's not in control of her sexual encounters. That's putting aside the male author having literal control over her... That's ridiculous unless you think that men shouldn't write women, let alone empowered ones. As for consuming to feed herself, that necessity is the same as vampires and blood. Certainly, Lara rejoices in the way she feeds and could have fed in other ways like fear. She chooses sex, instead, and it is her preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I'm going to admit one thing that makes no sense to me and that's why both Harry and the White Council decided to make such a huge ordeal of the "exiled from the White Council" business. It was a stupid decision on both parts: to have ever considered post-death Harry a member of the White Council to begin with.. Harry accepted the Mantle of the Winter Knight, which subordinates himself to Mab and makes him her chief enforcer. After that point, Harry's loyalty to her supersedes everything else in his life (theoretically). Why is there any sort of confusion or hurt feelings on the matter. Harry can no longer serve the White Council's will because he has other responsibilities. Certainly, he can't effectively do his job as a Warden while being the Winter Knight (let alone be Warden of Demonreach). Mab literally can kill him at will and pull him off any mission. They should have politely thanked him for his services, given him a watch, and told him that they hoped he didn't turn into a serial killer. The politics makes no sense too because the White Council is ALLIED with Queen Mab. For all the nastiness and evil she does, the fact is that she was with them in working against the Red Court. Honestly, you'd think the White Council would be relieved there was someone holding Vader's (as they view Harry) leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 7 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: I'm going to admit one thing that makes no sense to me and that's why both Harry and the White Council decided to make such a huge ordeal of the "exiled from the White Council" business. It was a stupid decision on both parts: to have ever considered post-death Harry a member of the White Council to begin with.. Harry accepted the Mantle of the Winter Knight, which subordinates himself to Mab and makes him her chief enforcer. After that point, Harry's loyalty to her supersedes everything else in his life (theoretically). Why is there any sort of confusion or hurt feelings on the matter. Harry can no longer serve the White Council's will because he has other responsibilities. Certainly, he can't effectively do his job as a Warden while being the Winter Knight (let alone be Warden of Demonreach). Mab literally can kill him at will and pull him off any mission. They should have politely thanked him for his services, given him a watch, and told him that they hoped he didn't turn into a serial killer. The politics makes no sense too because the White Council is ALLIED with Queen Mab. For all the nastiness and evil she does, the fact is that she was with them in working against the Red Court. Honestly, you'd think the White Council would be relieved there was someone holding Vader's (as they view Harry) leash. That’s fair but it ignores what Rashid said in Cold Days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Patrek Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 9 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: That's ridiculous unless you think that men shouldn't write women, let alone empowered ones. To be fair, I doubt that many female readers would agree with you about Lara. I sure don't know any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said: To be fair, I doubt that many female readers would agree with you about Lara. I sure don't know any. She's my wife's favorite character after Mab so I admit I am biased from my perspective. Mind you, she's also a comic book reader and was introduced to her and the series via Lara/Marcone's War against Puck. Then I showed her the book and described her as a sexual abuse survivor as well as antihero queen, gave her BLOOD RITES, and she read the rest of the series after loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Patrek Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Given the fact that I've seen Butcher get crucified countless times on Reddit and elsewhere for his depiction of female characters, it's safe to say that your wife might be the exception, not the norm. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said: Given the fact that I've seen Butcher get crucified countless times on Reddit and elsewhere for his depiction of female characters, it's safe to say that your wife might be the exception, not the norm. . . I think Jim Butcher has a lot of problems with female characters that could definitely use a lot of correcting. I just think Lara Raith is one of his best characters alongside Murphy, Charity, and Molly. It's not the problem of the succubus being a dangerous femme fatale, it's really every single character being treated like one. Maybe a couple of non-gorgeous people Harry isn't attracted to would help. I should note that my feelings could be summarized this way on the Dresden Files TV show. "Bianca is being treated as a morally ambiguous femme fatale that Harry is frenemies with. That's not Bianca, that's Lara Raith." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 23 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: That's ridiculous unless you think that men shouldn't write women, let alone empowered ones. I think the point stands without going into male gaze of the author. 23 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: As for consuming to feed herself, that necessity is the same as vampires and blood. Certainly, Lara rejoices in the way she feeds and could have fed in other ways like fear. She chooses sex, instead, and it is her preference. 1) Sexuality(A) = Feeding(B) for Lara. Feeding is sexual, sex is feeding. I'm taking this as a given. 2) If she's in control of A, she's in control of B. 1, proof by identity. 3) If she's not in control of her feeding, she's not in control of her sexuality. 2, Modus tollens. She cannot both be in control of her sexuality and be required to have sex to survive. It's inherently contradictory. I can't call the succubus archetype sexually empowered when they don't have a choice about having sex. Have sex or experience privation, pain, even death. I actually agree that there are mitigating circumstances behind her feeding and view her as more than someone who just eats people. But Lara is not in control of her sexuality. Her demon is. Tragic maybe. Not empowered. Actually, an arranged marriage to Dresden enforced by a powerful, vengeful being she cannot afford to offend is a great example of her continuing lack of choice. And if Butcher ends up exploring that, I think it could be pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, AverageGuy said: Tragic maybe. Not empowered. Actually, an arranged marriage to Dresden enforced by a powerful, vengeful being she cannot afford to offend is a great example of her continuing lack of choice. I agree, which is why the marriage will never take place.Neither Lara nor Harry will ever be forced into anything they don't want to do. Quote She cannot both be in control of her sexuality and be required to have sex to survive. It's inherently contradictory. I can't call the succubus archetype sexually empowered when they don't have a choice about having sex. Have sex or experience privation, pain, even death. Non-asexual humans have sexual instincts that compel them to mate. Lara feeds on sexual energy but doesn't need sex to survive. She just chooses to do it that way. As we see with Thomas, she could just feed on sexual energy in other ways if she wanted to. Also, as we see with White Court vampires, they seem to choose what energy they feed on as we have Fear vampires and Despair vampires too. Lara prefers Lust for whatever reason, probably because it is her choice to feed on a relatively pleasant emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 12 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: Neither Lara nor Harry will ever be forced into anything they don't want to do. Harry gets forced into things he doesn't want to do literally all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: Harry gets forced into things he doesn't want to do literally all the time. And it usually ends quite badly for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said: And it usually ends quite badly for them. Well so far it hasn't ended badly for Mab, the principal maker-of-Dresden-do-things-he-doesn't-want in the series. And while I'm fairly sure she'll either get taken down or release her hold eventually, I'm not at all sure it'll be before Dresden marries Lara. I don't think it'll last, but there's a pretty good chance it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: Well so far it hasn't ended badly for Mab, the principal maker-of-Dresden-do-things-he-doesn't-want in the series. And while I'm fairly sure she'll either get taken down or release her hold eventually, I'm not at all sure it'll be before Dresden marries Lara. I don't think it'll last, but there's a pretty good chance it happens. Well we know the next book is a year later and is MIRROR, MIRROR. Which takes place in an alternate universe. So I assume that they won't. But I could be wrong. We'll see how it goes and whether it'll be a sexless marriage or not given Harry still loves Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said: Well we know the next book is a year later and is MIRROR, MIRROR. Hide contents Which takes place in an alternate universe. So I assume that they won't. But I could be wrong. We'll see how it goes and whether it'll be a sexless marriage or not given Harry still loves Murphy. Oh fuck off (not you). Just get on with the story already! A mirror universe? Really? What about tying up some loose ends? Cowl and Kumari? Who stopped Little Chicago from blowing up? Does Harry intend to do anything about the Black Council after doing fuck all for over a decade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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