Fourth Quarter 2020 Reading

[JGP]

On 10/3/2020 at 1:22 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik, first in the new "Scholomancer" series. Excited for this one, i've a hunger for a new magic school series since that place in my heart is tainted now.

Preordered this one on the strength of some recs, but I'm having a hard time getting into it, been in and out out if since release. Can't tell if it's the writing, my general aversion to urban type fantasy, or rona world problems. Let me know what you think of it.

[williamjm]

12 hours ago, Jo498 said:

Three parts dead is a very interesting book. It has very little to do with any traditional (or at least none I am aware of, maybe some aspects in Hinduism) religion but more with modern problems of energy supply and barely legal legal tricks. It was almost a bit to lawyerly for me as a total layman.

I remember reading that one of Gladstone's inspirations for the story was the 2008 global financial crisis, which does make a change from all the epic fantasies based on things like medieval Europe or Norse mythology.

[Iskaral Pust]

8 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I remember reading that one of Gladstone's inspirations for the story was the 2008 global financial crisis, which does make a change from all the epic fantasies based on things like medieval Europe or Norse mythology.

Yes, the plot was basically a CDO for gods.

[ljkeane]

I'm struggling a bit with The Trouble with Peace. There's nothing wrong with the book itself but I'm just expecting everything to end up going badly and the characters to all turn out to be terrible people so it's kind of hard to get too invested.

[Paxter]

Finished Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind and (finally!) Stone of Farewell.

Sapiens was better than I was expecting, particularly the first third of the book. My limited knowledge of history ends at about the time of the Ancient Greeks, so learning more about the 100k+ years before then was actually pretty cool. I didn't love the book so much when it covered (at a very high level) the more modern history of empires and capitalism. Harari didn't really have anything new to say on those topics. But I'd still recommend picking this up just for the pre-historic section. 

Stone of Farewell...urgh. If anything this was even slower and more grinding than the first instalment (which was no rollercoaster !) I do enjoy the world building and there are some good characters in there (Simon, Binabik, Isgrimnur, Eolair, Josua) and a cool cast of villains, but also some real duds (Deonorth!) The plot of this one was just...bleh:

Spoiler

• Simon wanders in between various prisons (three separate captures in this one)
• Miriamele does...nothing (apart from befriend a Niskie?)
• Josua and co go to the Stone of Farewell
• Eolair goes to the Stone of Farewell, Maegwin goes emo
• Some high priests die (unsure of their relevance to the plot)

I'm hoping for much better things from the concluding volumes! Expect a review sometime in 2021 though...

Now reading The Mirror and the Light (superb so far) and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. 

[HexMachina]

10 hours ago, Leap said:

Just finished Ship of Destiny, and so come to the end of Hobb's Liveship Trader's trilogy. 

As I noted with the previous iterations, I have mixed feelings about this series. The last book was both completely different, and yet had all the same flaws as the first two. I still think highly of Hobb as a writer, but I've never come to the end of a fantasy series and just felt bad before. Heavy spoilers:

  Hide contents

 I felt that the plot was marginally more coherent than the first two books, but still fairly scattered. The pacing was bad. Some of the characters were almost completely abandoned (Wintrow, Keffria, Ronica). I still have reservations about some of the other characters' in the earlier books.

I think one of the stronger points of each book was the way Hobb writes about women, power and specifically sexual assault. There were a few instances where I think that was kind of skated over, such as Malta coming to terms with her father and family, and the lack of serious closure for Ronica, Keffria and Serilla, all of whom had had their own narrative arcs sketched at some point.

Ship of Destiny has two plotlines on this theme that are utterly horrifying. The Malta chapters earlier in the book are some of the most powerful in the entire series, although they did not fit well into an overarching plot. Althea's rape was awful to read. I put the book down after that and didn't read any more that day. I hadn't thought I was particularly invested in the book, but several days and a few hundred pages later I still feel disturbed by those few pages. I suppose that's a testament to what Hobb is capable of writing, but I just regret reading it. 

So yeah, overall a grim read in more ways than one. I'll probably read more Hobb in the future, but I don't think I'll ever re-read this trilogy. Gave this last book 3/5 on GR as credit for its impact, but I don't know if I really did "like it". 

 

Next up, Wyrd Sisters by Terry Pratchett. I really enjoyed Equal Rites, so hope this one is good too.

I think you will probably enjoy the main Hobb series following Fitz more, though fair warning it continues the grim content. I can't remember whether you've read the Golden Fool trilogy yet but God damn if that trilogy doesn't make me cry, especially the first book.

Also your issues with her pacing will probably continue. Doesn't bother me so much because I love the characters world and writing so I'm quite happy to read anything about them. You can always guarantee that the final part of the book will be absolutely bonker balls too as the pace and action suddenly ramps up.

As previously stated I love The Witches Discworld series so I'm a bit biased. I think I would rate Wyrd Sisters is better than Equal Rites but I enjoy them all. I think Equal Rites is the weakest just by virtue of being so early in the Discworld releases...I think it was third? Colour of Magic, Light Fantastic and then Equal Rites maybe?

As always I recommend the Tiffany Aching books to accompany the Witches series though. They are marketed children/YA in bookshops normally, but are definitely tied in to the main Witches books (spoilers - because Tiffany is a witch )

 

I'm cracking on with A Little Hatred. It took me some time to get into it properly because I didn't reread the first book so some of the details had slipped my mind. It's funny thinking of some offhand comments I may made in the Abercrombie thread in hindsight as some points look like they might be explored more than I expected them to be.

[Plessiez]

I finished Exhalation yesterday.

I liked it a lot, though I did feel that the stories varied a bit in quality.  In particular, I thought that the title story, "The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate" and "The Lifecycle of Software Objects" were all really good, but both "The Great Silence"  and "The Truth of Fact, The Truth of Feeling" didn't really work for me.  I don't think this is because the latter two are badly written (although in hindsight it makes sense that "The Great Silence" wasn't originally written to stand on its own); I think my problem was more not really being persuaded by the central conceits of either of those stories.

Overall though, I'm definitely happy to have read it.  It was a nice change of pace from most of what I've been reading these last few months.

Now starting R. F. Kuang's The Poppy War, but I do plan to go back and finish A Sword from Red Ice sooner or later.

[hauberk]

Have just about completed my reread of Lord Foul's Bane.  I know that it's a polarizing series of books, but I find the Land to be one of the singularly most idyllic settings that I've encountered.  It feels timely to look at the works of Foul and feel dispair given how our own real world Foul is wreaking his malice.  

[Wilbur]

Finished Julius Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars earlier this week, and it is interesting to compare and contrast the political propaganda of that day and age with our own.  Basically, our society today possesses the technology to communicate it faster and further, like a high-speed manure spreader.

Also, top marks for the Roman capital punishment methodology:  Decapitation of a traitor, followed by a flogging.  The bassackwardness of these two steps made me laugh in high school, and it still tickled me again now.

[Gigei]

I just reread Julian May's "Diamond Mask" and "Magnificat." Those are the last two books of May's Galactic Milieu series which was first published in the 1990s. The original series was "The Saga of Pliocene Exile" which was published in the 1980s. I have read both series but I was a child back then.

I tried to reread the Pliocene books but I became more interested in the Galactic Milieu.

One thing that always bothered me about the ending of the Pliocene series was the abrupt ending where Marc

Spoiler

Simply lets the kids all go when Elizabeth finally admits she is in love with him. It was a big WTF moment for me, lol. Like, suddenly Marc is now in love??? When did that happen?

Of course, later on, when they are shown looking at the original worlds of the Duat race I thought that was a fitting end. Marc has been looking for another suitable sentient race for a long time and it makes sense to bring Elizabeth with him since she would be very useful.

I feel like the Galactic Milieu series made me understand Marc a lot better.

Spoiler

In the Pliocene series, Marc is presented as some sort of mass murderer/Hitlerian human supremacist and a brutal leader/father. In other words, a HUGE asshole. Great villain though.   So it was hard for me to swallow that he just goes off in peace in the end. But in the Galactic Milieu, Marc's story is shown.

While Pliocene presents him as an awe-inspiring Paramount metapyschic and scientific genius inventor, the Milieu series, via Uncle Rogi, gives a more balanced view of him.

Nice quote about Marc: "A lot of that Byronic façade is compensatory."

"Diamond Mask" - Uncle Rogi is a great narrator. Loved his parts. Diamond herself was really boring since she had a child's POV for many parts. Again, she and Jack just fall in love swiftly and without explanation. I guess this is just the way it happens in Julian May books and we are supposed to accept it as irrational/sudden love at first sight (coup de foudre is what it is called in the books). It's okay.... I gradually got used to it. The Fury/Hydra parts kept me on the edge of my seat.

"Magnificat" - The problem, I think, is that Diamond and Jack are so saintly that it's hard to really relate to them. Plus, Jack literally has no weakness. His brain can't be harmed by any physical or metaphysical force and he's a Paramount Grand Master in ALL the metaphysical faculties. Marc really steals the show in this book, IMO. I also can't believe how good the Fury reveal is. Amazing stuff!

I now believe that Marc may not even have been in love with Elizabeth at the end of the Pliocene series. While almost all couples shown in the Galactic Milieu fall in love at first sight, they are mostly troubled relationships. Marc + Elizabeth are probably more like Denis + Lucille in that Marc consciously chose a good partner for himself and eventually grew to love her which happens offscreen after the end of the Pliocene series.

TL;DR I'm very satisfied with the series and have a new understand of Marc.

[Little Valkyrie]

18 hours ago, Gigei said:

I just reread Julian May's "Diamond Mask" and "Magnificat." Those are the last two books of May's Galactic Milieu series which was first published in the 1990s. The original series was "The Saga of Pliocene Exile" which was published in the 1980s. I have read both series but I was a child back then.

I tried to reread the Pliocene books but I became more interested in the Galactic Milieu.

One thing that always bothered me about the ending of the Pliocene series was the abrupt ending where Marc

  Reveal hidden contents

Simply lets the kids all go when Elizabeth finally admits she is in love with him. It was a big WTF moment for me, lol. Like, suddenly Marc is now in love??? When did that happen?

Of course, later on, when they are shown looking at the original worlds of the Duat race I thought that was a fitting end. Marc has been looking for another suitable sentient race for a long time and it makes sense to bring Elizabeth with him since she would be very useful.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the Pliocene series, Marc is presented as some sort of mass murderer/Hitlerian human supremacist and a brutal leader/father. In other words, a HUGE asshole. Great villain though.   So it was hard for me to swallow that he just goes off in peace in the end. But in the Galactic Milieu, Marc's story is shown.

While Pliocene presents him as an awe-inspiring Paramount metapyschic and scientific genius inventor, the Milieu series, via Uncle Rogi, gives a more balanced view of him.

 

One of the big references throughout those books is Wagner's Ring Cycle, and Marc in the Pliocene books is analogous to both of the father figures in that cycle.  It comes out in Magnificat that Cyndia insisted on Hagen's name--Hagen is Alberich's son, created as a tool, and the scene where Hagen falls asleep and maybe talks to Marc or not is directly modeled on Gotterdammerung's Hagen/Alberich scene.  But in the end Marc ends up being Wotan, and letting the kids go.

I was reading these as Intervention and the trilogy came out, and they've held up pretty well.

[polishgenius]

On 10/6/2020 at 5:05 PM, Paxter said:

Sapiens was better than I was expecting, particularly the first third of the book. My limited knowledge of history ends at about the time of the Ancient Greeks, so learning more about the 100k+ years before then was actually pretty cool. I didn't love the book so much when it covered (at a very high level) the more modern history of empires and capitalism. Harari didn't really have anything new to say on those topics. But I'd still recommend picking this up just for the pre-historic section. 

 

 

I'm just reading Sapiens now and while I'm no expert on any era of history he hasn't really said anything new on any era in so far as I've got- but he does present a useful summary and some interesting framings. I think it's an interesting book to read if you bear in mind that he' shamelessly applying his own biases even while discussing (and mocking) those of others. (spoilers mostly for length, here)

One part- that was brief- that I particularly noticed didn't make much sense was his discussion of the pre-colonial-era 'four worlds' of humanity. Worlds in this context meaning 'spheres of human influence that didn't have any significant chain of contact with each other', and which he presented as the afro-asian world (which includes Europe), the oceanic world, the central American world and the Incan world. It's the American part that bothered me, because not only do I think it's completely implausible that there was less connection between Mayan Mexico and the Incan Andes than between Madrid and central Africa or Kamchatka as his model would imply, but I don't know what the fuck he thought North America was. It was like he decided that because we have no historical record of these links (because they got genocided out of existence) they weren't there, and that bothered me. Which has also led me to look somewhat sceptically at other conclusions he draws on subjects I'm less able to judge, even when the arguments are interesting.

 

So overall, interesting book but - without having finished yet- I'm not sure it's worth all the hype it seemed to get.

[ljkeane]

I just finished up The Trouble With Peace, it took me a while to get into it but once it good going it was very good. Next up I think I'll read Battleground.

[JGP]

2 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

There has been a big, um. Ok let’s a lot of discussion about this one on social media in the last few days, with a lot of accusations of racism in the text(if you Twitter search Novik you can find most of it) I haven’t read it myself but I was planning to this weekend plus I already have it and it’s short so I’ll see for myself, but as you can imagine it’s already getting nasty. I’m a big Novik fan so I’m kind of shocked at some of the stuff I’ve seen already plus Jemisin having a blurb on the back just confuses me more.

Generally I avoid urban fantasy, but I picked it up on the strength of Cassandra Khaw's glowing rec a few months ago. I'd figure if there was anything racially problematic about it she wouldn't have done so, but who knows. 

I'm only a quarter in and I haven't noticed anything, but I'm a white dude who is learning but is not yet perfectly woke. 

Let me know I guess, but I'll avoid the Twitter chatter if only to avoid spoilers.

[polishgenius]

3 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 Jemisin having a blurb on the back just confuses me more.

 

59 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Generally I avoid urban fantasy, but I picked it up on the strength of Cassandra Khaw's glowing rec a few months ago. I'd figure if there was anything racially problematic about it she wouldn't have done so, but who knows. 

 

I don't know about the other less glaring issues some people seem to be mentioning, but Novik says in her apology the particularly offensive passage was added in a late edit after review copies had gone out.

That passage in particular does surprise me because, like, what the fuck, but if the book overall is culturally insensitive in a way that edges into microaggression racism it doesn't really, because as much as I adored Uprooted, Jemisin showed a bit of a tin ear for the subleties of Polish-culture-as-embedded-in-myth in that one (not going so far as any kind of offense, in that instance, but just not really getting little things about it), and that was her own family's culture. And I was slightly uncomfortable with the way Spinning Silver portrated the opression of a Jewish family, though I was never sure quite if that one was because it itself was off or because the book as a whole felt a little cartoony, so the more real-life-serious aspect there just didn't sit right in it.

In any case with no ill will towards Novik at all, it wouldn't shock me to find that with the best intentions but a lack of proper process she tried to write a book that attempted to do a Harry Potter take that acknowledged and tried to fix the cultural issues embedded in those books, but instead leant into a slew of new ones.

[JGP]

Well... shit. The demons have been silly so far, with no real hints to any greater threat, but I'm kinda sorta getting into the rambling style.

Have you read it, pg?

It's my first Novik book, so can't speak to any of the stuff you've mentioned in her other works.

[Gigei]

11 hours ago, Little Valkyrie said:

One of the big references throughout those books is Wagner's Ring Cycle, and Marc in the Pliocene books is analogous to both of the father figures in that cycle.  It comes out in Magnificat that Cyndia insisted on Hagen's name--Hagen is Alberich's son, created as a tool, and the scene where Hagen falls asleep and maybe talks to Marc or not is directly modeled on Gotterdammerung's Hagen/Alberich scene.  But in the end Marc ends up being Wotan, and letting the kids go.

I was reading these as Intervention and the trilogy came out, and they've held up pretty well.

It's been like 30 years since they were first published and I agree that they are still very enjoyable and readable.

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Have you read it, pg?

Nah not yet. So like I say it's all ifs buts and maybes from me.

It's gonna be a tricky one if and when I do, mind, there's never gonna be an unbiased reading now. On the flipside, as a straight white male as much as I try to be aware of the microgaression, thoughtless accidental racism stuff, being someone who doesn't deal with this sort of thing every day they can pass me by. Hell, I'm not comparing the issues raised but it's the same manner that no-one with no Polish roots is likely to have noticed the stuff that bothered me about Uprooted.
Like I just saw someone raise a really problematic story element in Spinning Silver that I just didn't register as an issue at the time but is really quite a problem taken nakedly as presented in the book (and even more when taken in the context of further problems people have with Novik with queer representation, where she writes tons of gay porn/slash in her fanfic but no gay relationship of any stripe in her published novels, apparently to the point where Deadly Education is a remake of a Potter fanfic she did where she's swapped out a gay protagonist into a cis woman, thus further irritating fans).

So yeah, it's tough, I'm sure Novik doesn't do this on purpose she strikes me as a decent person from her persona and her writing is cool, like I say what I hear about this book it sounds like an attempt to make Potter more inclusive, but it also sounds like she has some listening and learning to do. Hopefully she does and hopefully she doesn't get unacceptable hate from this (which I'm not super optimistic about tbqh).

 

[Filippa Eilhart]

What bothered you about Uprooted, @polishgenius? Honestly it read to me like a retelling of a Russian fairy tale with no links to Polish culture at all

[williamjm]

12 hours ago, Gigei said:

It's been like 30 years since they were first published and I agree that they are still very enjoyable and readable.

I don't think I've re-read them since the 90s but the Saga of the Exiles/Galactic Milieu books were among my favourites at the time. Marc definitely had an interesting story arc.