Saddles and armors for dragons.

[Daeron the Daring]

I wonder how it works. Saddles and armors for dragons.

Are there any left after all?

First to discuss is flying without a saddle. We know about 3 different cases when someone rode a dragon without saddle: Daenerys rode Drogon, Aegon III somehow made it out without a saddle riding Stormcloud, and Joffrey Velaryon too rode Syrax without a saddle, but we know how that ended. 

So, first of all, saddle is necesarry for riding a dragon, but where would Dany and the other future dragonriders would get any? I'm sure that back in time there were many saddles, not only because the amount of dragons, but because their growing too. Younger dragons (I mean below 50 years) could wield a saddle for 5-6 years, at older dragons this might be even 10-15 years, but at some point the saddle becomes too small, yet it still can be used on other dragons. Now, maybe some of those saddles burned in the Storming of the Dragonpit, but I am hella sure not all of them. Are there any left for example at Dragonstone? And did those saddles survive 200 and even more years to could be used now? I think yes. But Dany is still far away from Westeros. So how does she get one fitting for her dragons? Crafting. But who is capable to do it? And inspecting of how fast the 3 wonders are growing, a saddle could not fit for them for more than a year.

The other thing is the dragonarmor. Now the only Targaryen dragon we've seen wielding a chestplate-thing was Balerion during the conquest. But as long as even scorpions aren't a match for an old dragon's scales, it has no advantage. Also, there's no chance to any of our 3 to wield that big chestplate, if it is still around somewhere and didn't got melted in (which is not likely anyway). So, why Balerion was armed with that chestplate? I think only for flexing :D. So does a dragonarmor have any advantage? Yes, against OTHER DRAGONS! Imagine if Caraxes had a chestplate against Vhagar, he would have even survived that fight.

The qouestion is, are there any saddles and armors that could fit on our 3 babys? 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Dragons are not horses. There is plenty of real estate. A dragon rider could set up a tent on her dragon and do quite well as long as they have something to attach to.  They don't have gorilla glue but long leather straps would work.  

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, HerblYY said:

And inspecting of how fast the 3 wonders are growing, a saddle could not fit for them for more than a year.

..... 

1 hour ago, HerblYY said:

The qouestion is, are there any saddles and armors that could fit on our 3 babys? 

I prefer unfair medieval nukes. 

[Daeron the Daring]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Dragons are not horses. There is plenty of real estate. A dragon rider could set up a tent on her dragon and do quite well as long as they have something to attach to.  They don't have gorilla glue but long leather straps would work.  

Saddles are tied down by belts, but they don't fit for a dragon forever. Also, we know that the seatbelt of these saddles are literally chains, and they don't need super glue after all.

The thing i am talking about is that for example.is that Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon can grow two or three times bigger than their current size in a year, and those belts at some point will be too short. Would you play with your life? Valyrians used saddles for a reason, and didn't place tents on a dragon's back for a reason.

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

..... 

I prefer unfair medieval nukes. 

I don't see the point of your reply.

[Aldarion]

5 hours ago, HerblYY said:

The other thing is the dragonarmor. Now the only Targaryen dragon we've seen wielding a chestplate-thing was Balerion during the conquest. But as long as even scorpions aren't a match for an old dragon's scales, it has no advantage. Also, there's no chance to any of our 3 to wield that big chestplate, if it is still around somewhere and didn't got melted in (which is not likely anyway). So, why Balerion was armed with that chestplate? I think only for flexing :D. So does a dragonarmor have any advantage? Yes, against OTHER DRAGONS! Imagine if Caraxes had a chestplate against Vhagar, he would have even survived that fight.

 

Problem with armour is that dragons apparently constantly grow, so any armour would not fit for long.

[Daeron the Daring]

6 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Problem with armour is that dragons apparently constantly grow, so any armour would not fit for long.

That's what the topic is mostly about. Dragons growing out things, so other ones could still use it for a fix period.

[Aldarion]

10 hours ago, HerblYY said:

That's what the topic is mostly about. Dragons growing out things, so other ones could still use it for a fix period.

Or mail could be used instead of plate, so simply have it loose and add new rows as dragon grows.

[Daeron the Daring]

57 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Or mail could be used instead of plate, so simply have it loose and add new rows as dragon grows.

We are at the point when we know that armor for dragons is useful against other dragons. Mail would be nothing for a dragon, again, remember hogy Vhagar opened Caraxes' chest with his big claws! A mail would be no match for Vhagar, but a chestplate? I think yes.

[TheLastWolf]

13 hours ago, HerblYY said:

15 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

..... 

I prefer unfair medieval nukes. 

I don't see the point of your reply.

Exactly! I dont see the point of this topic. No offence

How exactly does Dany plan to control them? They are wild and Dragonbinder is likely already claimed by Euron. Any more lying around would be nice. No spell books. One at the Citadel tells how to kill them. No mages to do bloodmagic since doom. We see in F&B that dragons become even more difficult to control as time passes till their extinction. Only Targ blood wont do anyone good. Dragons have burnt and eaten other Targs/dragonseed/Valyrian origin dudes over the ages.

When these Qs are answered convincingly, your OP has merit. No offence, i repeat.

[Davjos]

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Exactly! I dont see the point of this topic. No offence

How exactly does Dany plan to control them? They are wild and Dragonbinder is likely already claimed by Euron. Any more lying around would be nice. No spell books. One at the Citadel tells how to kill them. No mages to do bloodmagic since doom. We see in F&B that dragons become even more difficult to control as time passes till their extinction. Only Targ blood wont do anyone good. Dragons have burnt and eaten other Targs/dragonseed/Valyrian origin dudes over the ages.

When these Qs are answered convincingly, your OP has merit. No offence, i repeat.

Just saying no offence doesn’t make a reply less dickish. As the last thing Dany did in the books was ride Drogon, I don’t see merit in you’re response. She clearly controls Drogon enough to put a saddle on him. 

[TedBear]

Did people who think this way think that Dany would ride her dragon and he would transform into a dog with wings? Of course she would have a hard time. But it seems obvious that she will dominate him.

I don't remember any targaryen using some kind of witchcraft or magic horns to tame their dragons, just bonding with these dragons, Nettles tamed his dragon just by feeding it with sheep as far as we know, the eggs were placed in the babies cribs for some reason. 

[Alex13]

Well, the saddle could be very easy and simple to design and use, i believe. As the dragon grows, leather straps of different lengths could be used to secure it and once every few years (3-5) a new saddle could be designed to ensure that it fits the dragon easily and comfortably, and that it fits the size of the dragons neck/upper back. 

With regards to armor, that seems pretty useless, as according to Marin, a grown dragon is pretty much invulnerable to scorpion bolts. Meraxes was hit in one of her eyes by a scorpion bolt. And armor for Dany's dragons is useless, as they are still growing and she would have to spend a fortune to constantly equip the dragons with armor. Not to mention, the added weight of the armor will most likely make the dragons slower and more cumbersome in the air. 

[TedBear]

5 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Or mail could be used instead of plate, so simply have it loose and add new rows as dragon grows.

This

3 minutes ago, Alex13 said:

With regards to armor, that seems pretty useless, as according to Marin, a grown dragon is pretty much invulnerable to scorpion bolts. Meraxes was hit in one of her eyes by a scorpion bolt. And armor for Dany's dragons is useless, as they are still growing and she would have to spend a fortune to constantly equip the dragons with armor. Not to mention, the added weight of the armor will most likely make the dragons slower and more cumbersome in the air. 

I don't think they will reach that level, they are very young, because they are smaller, the main defense would be agility in the air or something.

[Kierria]

2 minutes ago, TedBear said:

Did people who think this way think that Dany would ride her dragon and he would transform into a dog with wings? Of course she would have a hard time. But it seems obvious that she will dominate him.

I don't remember any targaryen using some kind of witchcraft or magic horns to tame their dragons, just bonding with these dragons, Nettles tamed his dragon just by feeding it with sheep as far as we know, the eggs were placed in the babies cribs for some reason. 

Yes and George made it plain during an interview:  he meant for the bonding process to be dangerous for the human.  Using magic binding horns and skin-changing is cheating.  And cowardly.  May those who choose to use such tactics burn in the seven hells.

[Alex13]

36 minutes ago, TedBear said:

I don't think they will reach that level, they are very young, because they are smaller, the main defense would be agility in the air or something.

For the moment, no. But the dragons will continue to grow and their scales will harden. But yes, currently, their best defense while in air is their agility and the possibility of gaining altitude if/when they are in danger. Although even at their current size, i believe that the only danger to the dragons are scorpion bolts, as i don't think that arrows will be able to penetrate their scales. Arrows are a danger to the dragon rider. 

[Daeron the Daring]

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Exactly! I dont see the point of this topic. No offence

How exactly does Dany plan to control them? They are wild and Dragonbinder is likely already claimed by Euron. Any more lying around would be nice. No spell books. One at the Citadel tells how to kill them. No mages to do bloodmagic since doom. We see in F&B that dragons become even more difficult to control as time passes till their extinction. Only Targ blood wont do anyone good. Dragons have burnt and eaten other Targs/dragonseed/Valyrian origin dudes over the ages.

When these Qs are answered convincingly, your OP has merit. No offence, i repeat.

Well, if you have seen the questions answered, and you see no point of the topic, one of us are blind.

Anyway, we did not head to the way I tought we would. Yet good things came to discuss.

2 hours ago, Alex13 said:

Well, the saddle could be very easy and simple to design and use, i believe. As the dragon grows, leather straps of different lengths could be used to secure it and once every few years (3-5) a new saddle could be designed to ensure that it fits the dragon easily and comfortably, and that it fits the size of the dragons neck/upper back. 

With regards to armor, that seems pretty useless, as according to Marin, a grown dragon is pretty much invulnerable to scorpion bolts. Meraxes was hit in one of her eyes by a scorpion bolt. And armor for Dany's dragons is useless, as they are still growing and she would have to spend a fortune to constantly equip the dragons with armor. Not to mention, the added weight of the armor will most likely make the dragons slower and more cumbersome in the air. 

That's what I was saying, armor is pointless against humans. But not against other dragons. Mail armor on a dragon is useless against another dragon, plate armor not that much. Yes it gives an amount of plus weight, but it might be worth it.

At this point, simpathy is what makes a dragon accept a rider, not a horn, nor bloodmagic. But simpathy doesn't protect you against gravity, so Dany, and the other dragonriders have to put a saddle on them at some point.

The biggest danger against a dragon is another one. And an armor (I am gonna say it for the third time too) could be an advantage against another dragon.

DoD2 confirmed, just sayin'. Are there dragon armors and saddles left in Dragonstone fitting for any of our 3?

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

21 hours ago, HerblYY said:

Saddles are tied down by belts, but they don't fit for a dragon forever. Also, we know that the seatbelt of these saddles are literally chains, and they don't need super glue after all.

The thing i am talking about is that for example.is that Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon can grow two or three times bigger than their current size in a year, and those belts at some point will be too short. Would you play with your life? Valyrians used saddles for a reason, and didn't place tents on a dragon's back for a reason.

The chains can be adjusted.  There is a great picture in World of just such a device.  

21 hours ago, HerblYY said:

I don't see the point of your reply.

 

[Daeron the Daring]

12 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The chains can be adjusted.  There is a great picture in World of just such a device.  

 

Can an 8 year old kid use his father's belt? No, tho it has several holes. Nor the father can use his child's belt, even the largest hole would been too small for him.

A saddle made for ponies can be used on horses? No. Even to the belt has several holes in it, the difference is too much.

[Alex13]

2 hours ago, HerblYY said:

The biggest danger against a dragon is another one. And an armor (I am gonna say it for the third time too) could be an advantage against another dragon.

DoD2 confirmed, just sayin'. Are there dragon armors and saddles left in Dragonstone fitting for any of our 3?

 

True, armor could be used against other dragons, although the last time dragons fought against each other, was the Dance of Dragons. Currently, Dany doesn't have any reasons to armor her dragons. And if the purpose would be to protect against bites from other dragons, then i believe that the armor would need to be pretty thick, thus heavy and which would make the dragon slower and more cumbersome in the air and it could place it in a disadvantaged, against a lightly armored dragon or if the dragon would not have armor. 

Plus, the main issue is that the dragons will keep growing, so the armor would need to be changed pretty often, which will get expensive, especially considering the size and thickness. Armor made from valyrian steel would be ideal, as it would be lighter, although that would cost a fortune.

From what i know, there isn't any dragon armor and saddles left on Dragonstone or there hasn't been any mention about that. 

[TheLastWolf]

5 hours ago, Davjos said:

As the last thing Dany did in the books was ride Drogon

Very funny. Drogon went where he wished. Dany's whippings were effective meagerly. 

5 hours ago, Davjos said:

She clearly controls Drogon enough to put a saddle on him. 

When the hell did that happen!!??!?. Ah! The usual Dany fans imagining stuff. No problem. 

5 hours ago, Davjos said:

Just saying no offence doesn’t make a reply less dickish.

Maybe to blind (metaphorically) Dany fans who hate everything not Targ. Starks especially. Not all Dany fans. Just a few. OK, a lot. In the forum. 

5 hours ago, Davjos said:

I don’t see merit in you’re response

The blind (metaphorically) cannot see. It's possible to wake a deep sleeper, but impossible to wake someone who is acting as if sleeping. Some people choose to look the other way.