divica Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Knights are knights. Dragons are dragons. Honestly, if the Freehold didn't use armor, why should Dany? Also, just imagine the sight of a dragon flying with a helmet. It looks ludicrous. And even with a helmet, vision is impaired. Well, if they used helmets then dorne wouldn't have shot 1 dragon dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, divica said: Well, if they used helmets then dorne wouldn't have shot 1 dragon dead... You are weaving webs of imagination. We are talking of reality, not imagination. Saddles are realistic. Dragon armor, of any material is not realistic. Also, even helmets have to have eye slits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: You are weaving webs of imagination. We are talking of reality, not imagination. Saddles are realistic. Dragon armor, of any material is not realistic. Also, even helmets have to have eye slits. But the whole point of an helmet is to protect your head. Even with eye slits it would be nearly impossible to hit the eyes of dragons that are one of their known weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, divica said: But the whole point of an helmet is to protect your head. Even with eye slits it would be nearly impossible to hit the eyes of dragons that are one of their known weaknesses. Look, we're trying to be realistic here. As said dragon grew, you would quickly require a new helmet. This costs money. And again, if the Freehold of Valyria who rode dragons for more than 5000 years didn't use dragon helmets, why should Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Look, we're trying to be realistic here. As said dragon grew, you would quickly require a new helmet. This costs money. And again, if the Freehold of Valyria who rode dragons for more than 5000 years didn't use dragon helmets, why should Dany? are you really implying that dragon riders had monetary problems? That they couldn't aford a dragon helmet each couple of years? And who knows how the freehold protected their dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, divica said: are you really implying that dragon riders had monetary problems? That they couldn't aford a dragon helmet each couple of years? It would be a waste of time, resources and money. And the Valyrians were no fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion2 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 On 10/2/2020 at 8:36 AM, Daeron the Daring said: I wonder how it works. Saddles and armors for dragons. Are there any left after all? First to discuss is flying without a saddle. We know about 3 different cases when someone rode a dragon without saddle: Daenerys rode Drogon, Aegon III somehow made it out without a saddle riding Stormcloud, and Joffrey Velaryon too rode Syrax without a saddle, but we know how that ended. So, first of all, saddle is necesarry for riding a dragon, but where would Dany and the other future dragonriders would get any? I'm sure that back in time there were many saddles, not only because the amount of dragons, but because their growing too. Younger dragons (I mean below 50 years) could wield a saddle for 5-6 years, at older dragons this might be even 10-15 years, but at some point the saddle becomes too small, yet it still can be used on other dragons. Now, maybe some of those saddles burned in the Storming of the Dragonpit, but I am hella sure not all of them. Are there any left for example at Dragonstone? And did those saddles survive 200 and even more years to could be used now? I think yes. But Dany is still far away from Westeros. So how does she get one fitting for her dragons? Crafting. But who is capable to do it? And inspecting of how fast the 3 wonders are growing, a saddle could not fit for them for more than a year. The other thing is the dragonarmor. Now the only Targaryen dragon we've seen wielding a chestplate-thing was Balerion during the conquest. But as long as even scorpions aren't a match for an old dragon's scales, it has no advantage. Also, there's no chance to any of our 3 to wield that big chestplate, if it is still around somewhere and didn't got melted in (which is not likely anyway). So, why Balerion was armed with that chestplate? I think only for flexing :D. So does a dragonarmor have any advantage? Yes, against OTHER DRAGONS! Imagine if Caraxes had a chestplate against Vhagar, he would have even survived that fight. The qouestion is, are there any saddles and armors that could fit on our 3 babys? What if Euron also has Valyrian dragon armor:0 maybe Dany will need to get a saddle when she's on the Dothraki sea? what if the Dothraki make her one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 Well, the main idea was that armor for grown dragons is pointless unless it has to protect the subject from another dragon. As for the idea of a helmet: There isn't a thing that can penetrate a dragon's head. Meraxes was shot directly in the eye, and for a dragon to have a helmet that protects its eye letssay the way a horse's eye was protected in late medieval times, such a helmet would narrow the dragon's angle of view, aka how much it can see, which wouldn't be a good deal (a terrible one, to be honest) for a flying creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodedCrow Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Let’s pretend that a dragon couldn’t easily ditch an unwanted rider by doing a loop de loop! Based on the Checkov’ s gun theory of fiction, Tyrion will make at least one dragon saddle for someone. It could be himself, as he has a fiery ( sexual, mental, emotional) personality, has a drive to understand dragons, has been a part of animal training , can joust on a pig, and we are not sure about his genetics. The next refinement could be a safety harness. It could be for Quentyn-who -is-not-burned, if he exists. It could be for Dany, Ben Plum, Jon, Bran, Arya, Arianne, fAegon, Victarion, Euron, Stannis, Rickon, the unGregor, Hot Pie, Gendry, Jon, Bran, or moon boy, for all we know. Dragons need goggles for fighting? Can dragons float like a swan or is water too unfriendly to a flying “reptile” no matter how magical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 2 hours ago, HoodedCrow said: It could be for Quentyn-who -is-not-burned, if he exists. I swear to God......Quentyn is goddamn dead for chrissake. He got enveloped in dragonflame and died. Period. 8 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said: Well, the main idea was that armor for grown dragons is pointless unless it has to protect the subject from another dragon. But how's the dragon going to stay aloft with the weight of the armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Rhaenys made a mistake. She flew too low and too slow. I don't believe the same mistake would come from Visenya. Visenya understood warfare as well as the use of effective "diplomacy." Rhaenys was the sweeter of the two but Visenya was more able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Moiraine Sedai said: Rhaenys made a mistake. She flew too low and too slow. I don't believe the same mistake would come from Visenya. Visenya understood warfare as well as the use of effective "diplomacy." Rhaenys was the sweeter of the two but Visenya was more able. But you can't fly from 500 feet above the ground and destroy a castle. You would almost have to fly low and slow in order to inflict maximum damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Star Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I think the obvious answer for where the current dragons will get saddles is Tyrion... Quote My legs are short and twisted, and I walk with difficulty. I require a special saddle to keep from falling off my horse. A saddle of my own design, you may be interested to know. A Game of Thrones - Tyrion II A saddle like the one he designed for Bran. Nobodies legs will be big/strong enough for a dragon and one would likely want to be strapped in. Also, it's possible that the answers you seek lie in the old Valyrian Scrolls... Quote Be gentle with the Valyrian scrolls, the parchment is very dry. Ayrmidon's Engines of War is quite rare, and yours is the only complete copy I've ever seen. A Game of Thrones - Tyrion I Unfortunately, the library of Winterfell was burned, but Tyrion has read the above, it's possible that other copies exist, and even possible that whoever set the fire took scrolls from the library first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Star Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said: I swear to God......Quentyn is goddamn dead for chrissake. He got enveloped in dragonflame and died. Period. Because the writing in this series never makes it seem like characters die when they don't? I don't really think there is much evidence Quentyn lived, but acting so certain about it is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mourning Star said: Because the writing in this series never makes it seem like characters die when they don't? Here: Quote Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself, the green one is Rhaegal. When he raised his whip, he saw that the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning. Oh, he thought. Then he began to scream. The Dragontamer, ADWD I don't know how to make it more clear, he's obviously burning all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Mourning Star said: Unfortunately, the library of Winterfell was burned, but Tyrion has read the above, it's possible that other copies exist, and even possible that whoever set the fire took scrolls from the library first. But doesn't the phrase "engines of war" bring to mind weapons like scorpions, catapults, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Star Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Here: I don't know how to make it more clear. He's obviously burning all over. Burning isn't the same as dead especially when burning isn't even the same as burnt... plus there is no denying the oddly suspicious way in which the burnt beyond recognition body is described after. Quote "Now do you see my meaning? Be glad that it is just a burnt sword that His Grace pulled from that fire. Too much light can hurt the eyes, my friend, and fire burns." A Clash of Kings - Davos I As I said, I'm inclined to think Quentyn is dead... but in this series it absolutely isn't certain, any more than the other examples of characters appearing to die. Quote His axe took her in the back of the head. A Storm of Swords - Arya XI But she was fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said: As I said, I'm inclined to think Quentyn is dead... but in this series it absolutely isn't certain, any more than the other examples of characters appearing to die. When I read that Arya chapter I was like "wtf Sandor?". 4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said: Burning isn't dead any more than burning is burnt... When has anybody ever survived being completely enveloped by dragonflame? Aegon II was freaking lucky he survived.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Star Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: But doesn't the phrase "engines of war" bring to mind weapons like scorpions, catapults, etc? Absolutely, but when talking about Valyrians it seems to always come back to dragons: Quote Sheltered there, amidst the great volcanic mountains known as the Fourteen Flames, were the Valyrians, who learned to tame dragons and make them the most fearsome weapon of war that the world ever saw. The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Rise of Valyria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Mourning Star said: Absolutely, but when talking about Valyrians it seems to always come back to dragons: True.....but it's "engines". If it was dragons, wouldn't it be like "Beasts of War" or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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