TheLastWolf Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: Fair enough. But in Westeros it's still messed up and she'd hang normally in there (sigh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Also, are you saying all those soldiers deserve to die? Hell most are conscripted. As for the broken men, have you even read AFFC? There's 2 full pages dedicated on why those deserve pity more then anything else Not all of them were broken men and even though broken men deserve pity, not all they do is right, whatever pushed them over the edge does not matter then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, MissM said: Nah it feels like you low-key feel some type of way for these poor innocent "victims" like Raff, The Tickler or Weese. Perhaps you should have a word with the people THEY raped and killed. The buggers have you and a strong contingent of Targ sycophants fighting their corner and moaning about their lost "justice". No doubt they deserved to die. Still, that does not change the fact that Arya is a murder. 1 minute ago, MissM said: Again how does that make her a psychopath? It seems to very evident this is a story arc that will resolve with her leaving understanding the difference. Something I'm sure you're hoping and praying won't happen. But the narrative suggests she has no place with the FM and they will continue to clash until she leaves them. Her empathy puts your psychopath cheerleading to bed. Hopefully, you'll get to see her gain understanding by letting her need for vengeance go. Let GRRM finish his story first. I was using the term more as a flourish. I do agree she's not one, but there is a disturbing amount of cold bloodlessness in the way and the numbers she kills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said: 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Also, are you saying all those soldiers deserve to die? Hell most are conscripted. As for the broken men, have you even read AFFC? There's 2 full pages dedicated on why those deserve pity more then anything else Not all of them were broken men and even though broken men deserve pity, not all they do is right, whatever pushed them over the edge does not matter then You're missing the point. The wolfpack is doubtlessly killing countless innocents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: You're missing the point. The wolfpack is doubtlessly killing countless innocents Doubtlessly? Assuming is bad. 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: No doubt they deserved to die. Still, that does not change the fact that Arya is a murder. I was using the term more as a flourish. I do agree she's not one, but there is a disturbing amount of cold bloodlessness in the way and the numbers she kills We come from different time zones and I'm sleepy and tired and sick of arguing pointlessly. You know the thread to rant about Arya being psycho. See you there if you want. Adios. Good night. Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: So in a way I agree. As I stated, the compassion between Dany and Arya is there, and it really doesn't help Dany out. That being said, Arya is clearly the most vicious of them and don't tell me the wolves only eat soldiers Arya and Dany are Martin’s joint second favourite characters. Take it up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said: We come from different time zones and I'm sleepy and tired and sick of arguing pointlessly. You know the thread to rant about Arya being psycho. See you there if you want. Adios. Good night. Apparently not at all as it's late evening here too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, SeanF said: Arya and Dany are Martin’s joint second favourite characters. Take it up with him. Their some of mine too. Their chapters a bit slow, but the characterization is incredible. Still that doesn't make them the best of people. Their good characters not necessarily good persons. Dany is a good person too, or at least trying as hard as possible for the moment to be one, but Arya on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissM Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 53 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Put it this way, would Arya nowadays get life in prison without parole for what she did? Vengeance is still murder This is a fantasy medieval world not our 21st century world. Maybe that's your problem? Conflating your real world views/feelings to a not so real fantasy world where a little girl gets judged more harshly by whatever bias said detractor might have. You can choose to have some empathy for her situation and everything that lead up to it or.... not. Empathy doesn't seem to be your strongest suit unless it's for rapists murderers and cheaters. You know, the not-psychopaths. God imagine defending Dany in this situation and not Arya? LOL Dany who literally has one of the biggest body counts in all the present books. Yikes. Just say you don't like Arya and stop with the excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, MissM said: God imagine defending Dany in this situation and not Arya? LOL Dany who literally has one of the biggest body counts in all the present books. Yikes. I'm pretty sure that distinction goes to good ol' Tywin. Also I'm not condoning her more murderous stuff, especially the crucifixions. She did them however in a moment of rage and later seemed to have fully realized her mistake. It was a fucked up thing to do, but it was a constant thing she did. Arya had been murdering people since ACOK with the rate getting higher and higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, MissM said: Empathy doesn't seem to be your strongest suit unless it's for rapiest, murderers and cheaters. You know, the not-psychopaths. Thanks! As I said, many of those people doubtlessly deserved to die. But Arya isn't getting justice, she's getting vengeance. Very different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Thanks! As I said, many of those people doubtlessly deserved to die. But Arya isn't getting justice, she's getting vengeance. Very different things Not in Martin’s world. The rule of law is non-existent, and an eye for an eye would be considered enlightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGail3 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Thanks! As I said, many of those people doubtlessly deserved to die. But Arya isn't getting justice, she's getting vengeance. Very different things There are circumstances leading up to her doing those so-and-so called acts of vengeances.. like the Freys killing her family for example. She wants justice for their murder at the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, GoldenGail3 said: She wants justice for their murder at the Red Wedding. And yet she never killed anybody related to it. That's Stonehart's area and she's pretty much the perfect thematic embodiment of why vengeance is a very bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGail3 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: And yet she never killed anybody related to it. That's Stonehart's area and she's pretty much the perfect thematic embodiment of why vengeance is a very bad idea She probably will, all things considering.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissM Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 46 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: No doubt they deserved to die. Still, that does not change the fact that Arya is a murder. Someone who deserves to die... dies. And yet you're defending Dany over Arya even though the former has killed far more people? Arya is acting like it's her duty to give the people these GUILTY men harmed or killed their justice (Same with Dany). You admit they deserved to die. I would rather hope Arya no longer puts herself in the position to have to do this dirty work. We know for certain it's not what she truly desires. Quote I was using the term more as a flourish. I do agree she's not one, but there is a disturbing amount of cold bloodlessness in the way and the numbers she kills a flourish that feels very bandwagony and confusing. Because unlike you, there are other sad souls who do believe it. Why lump yourself with them? It's not a cute club. She's no more cold than Robb or Jon yet their not judged as harshly? Jaime is all but forgiven in some people's eyes and never called a psychopath. Arya has nightmares over these scum and it affects her long after these evil people have died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: And yet she never killed anybody related to it. That's Stonehart's area and she's pretty much the perfect thematic embodiment of why vengeance is a very bad idea Matin’s world is that of I, Claudius, or Henry VIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I feel like we've gotten a little off track here. I think Dany and her dragons are mostly fine, and the Starks and their wolves are mostly fine. With regards to Arya, GRRM has in the past drawn comparison with child soldiers, a real phenomenon that many people in our 21st century world have experienced. Most such children can and do settle back into society to live peaceful and honest lives. They are not psychopaths, and neither is Arya. She is a child soldier in a war. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissM Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 47 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I'm pretty sure that distinction goes to good ol' Tywin. Also I'm not condoning her more murderous stuff, especially the crucifixions. She did them however in a moment of rage and later seemed to have fully realized her mistake. It was a fucked up thing to do, but it was a constant thing she did. Arya had been murdering people since ACOK with the rate getting higher and higher Using your logic... But only a psychopath would so coldly order murders and crucifixions. Right? Dany would be locked up in the Hague and executed in our world. Right? Even if those people deserved it (which is questionable) she still murdered people. But you find excuses for Dany when you really really want to. Double standards.... With Arya, you just don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I'll just add that the only true psychopaths in this story are Ramsay Snow and Gregor Clegane. They are true monsters, not Arya or Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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