A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Simon Steele said: Oh, this is about Bernie for you. I get it. Hey man, it was a bummer for me when he lost too, but move on. Demand SOMETHING of your overlords, eh? No, this is about you coming out with an axe to grind, when Biden does the smart thing, and not give sound bites, or doesn't throw meat to you or the left wing of the Democrat party. Again, this is what I said a couple of threads ago. If you (or anybody on the left) need some additional motivation to vote out the fascists, then something is wrong with you. Biden has to play to the middle of the road, maybe even a bit to the right to the middle voters. The disgruntled educated good folks in the suburbs. Some of whom believe in some sorta Christian values and decency. So now pissing on the person, who caught a potentially deadly disease, might violate their sense of decency. Biden has a solid lead in the polls, why rock the boat, by showboating, or running any risk of pissing those voters off. And those voters turn out to be important, when you want to send Graham and those others enablers packing. Rep. Omar is in a fairly safe seat, she has the luxury of not having to give two fucks about some voters in South Carolina, or Arizona. So she can call Trump any name in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Simon Steele said: But I don't think Omar's comment was dickish. It was on point. To pretend Trump is worthy of decorum or whatever is just an excuse for the horrid things he's done. I see a poster or two above you defending this, but in reality, they're just defending Trump. This is why Dems lose. They're gutless. They can't even stand up to a monster who is responsible for 200,000 deaths. He's sick, with the same disease. We have to be nice. Again, I don’t really get it why it’s necessary for Biden to do this when there are plenty of people across the political spectrum already stating the obvious, and we all already know it. The sound bites about Biden wanting Trump to be dead that would result wouldn’t be worth a single vote, and gives Trump ammo. I don’t see any other world leaders throwing shade at a hospitalized president, why would they? Because there is no advantage to it, take the high road until it’s advantageous to go low with the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Simon Steele said: For you, Trump was an attack against decency. For others, it was their life. When life is easy, I guess you can defend decency all you want. Uh, lots of people's lives are under the gun with this election. Which is why is makes sense for Biden to not make any rash moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Simon Steele said: I see a poster or two above you defending this, but in reality, they're just defending Trump. This is why Dems lose. Yep, I'm the one defending helping Trump. And you constantly attacking Biden for anything he does - even when contradictory - ranging from castigating him as a rapist, to questioning his mental health, to playing Hamlet on whether or not you're even gonna vote for him, to just insanely predictably and laughably criticizing every single fucking thing Biden does. That type of attitude totally doesn't help Trump. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I'm kind of two minds on this. on the one hand, I think that given how he's positioned himself the way Biden did things was probably the best way to go about it, excluding the pulling of negative Trump ads, that was gutless. On the other hand, the hand wringing about how the Democrats need to be nice to lure over moderates/former republicans is a little silly. The Republicans are fucking psychos who exploit every single opportunity to make their opponents look bad and kick them when they are down, giving zero fucks whether people like it or not, in fact if it bothers the Democrats, all the better. These people we are trying to draw over are Republicans voters, and they have voted Republican despite the fact that Republicans are assholes, and to cry foul now is nothing but disingenuous virtue signaling. Now this is not to say that the Democrats need to go full on Republican, because I'd really rather they didn't, but the idea that we have to be the nice ones really gives the Republicans the upper hand, because it doesn't matter if you do the honorable thing when it's supposed to be sabers at dawn and your opponent brings a Tommy Gun. A major part of that is that the Democratic base has been conditioned to think this way, just like they have been conditioned to think that deficits matter and that we can't do anything substantial lest we piss off the people who already hate us. Also I gotta say that it is funny that Twitter is banning people for saying they hope Trump dies when Ilhan Omar regularly gets death threats on the platform and they don't do much of anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lindsey-graham-s-democratic-challenger-jaime-harrison-shielded-himself-with-a-plexiglass-partition-during-their-first-debate/ar-BB19FMvC Why can't they just do this over zoom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: but the idea that we have to be the nice ones really gives the Republicans the upper hand, because it doesn't matter if you do the honorable thing when it's supposed to be sabers at dawn and your opponent brings a Tommy Gun. There is a difference between "giving the Republicans the upper hand" by being overly accommodating and refraining from classless rhetoric in a national election wherein you're trying to demonstrate you can be a, or the, world leader. Let's say Putin or Jinping was in danger of dying. Would you want the President of the United States to be like "ha, you deserve it!"? I think many on the left need to take a good look in the mirror and recognize that it isn't about getting "moderate" Republican votes or whatever the fuck, it's about just acting like a decent human being. Because when you lose that, then the fucks like Trump and Putin win. Not to mention, putting politics aside for a moment and recognizing we're all people IS good politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, DMC said: There is a difference between "giving the Republicans the upper hand" by being overly accommodating and refraining from classless rhetoric in a national election wherein you're trying to demonstrate you can be a, or the, world leader. Let's say Putin or Jinping was in danger of dying. Would you want the President of the United States to be like "ha, you deserve it!"? I think many on the left need to take a good look in the mirror and recognize that it isn't about getting "moderate" Republican votes or whatever the fuck, it's about just acting like a decent human being. Because when you lose that, then the fucks like Trump and Putin win. Not to mention, putting politics aside for a moment and recognizing we're all people IS good politics. Like I said, I'm not saying that Biden should have done anything different in terms of his statements, I wouldn't have done that aspect any differently, especially right now when Biden's decency is one of the primary distinctions that the campaign is making between him and Trump. The thing the frustrates me about this idea that if we stop being nice, somehow people like Trump and Putin win, but the reality is that they are already winning. We have seen the rise of people like Trump and Putin all over the world, Orban in Hungry, Duterte in The Philippines, Erdogan in Turkey, and there is no amount of decency that is going to stop this right wing authoritarian tide. Decency doesn't mean a thing if you are facing an opponent who does not value it, and in fact weaponizes it against you. Now, as I also said we don't need to go full sicko mode, that is insane, but pearl clutching only pigeonholes you into a position where going on the offensive can be a liability, and leaves you in a defensive position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: The thing the frustrates me about this idea that if we stop being nice, somehow people like Trump and Putin win, but the reality is that they are already winning. We have seen the rise of people like Trump and Putin all over the world, Orban in Hungry, Duterte in The Philippines, Erdogan in Turkey, and there is no amount of decency that is going to stop this right wing authoritarian tide. Decency doesn't mean a thing if you are facing an opponent who does not value it, and in fact weaponizes it against you. Um..what the hell does not attacking Trump while he is hospitalized with covid when you're Biden and trying to win an election have to do with what you're talking about in terms of Orban, Duterte, Erdogan? I'm talking about winning this election, that's all I care about. I have absolutely no problem with Ilhan Omar's tweet cited above. But Joe Biden is not running for President of Minnesota's 5th Congressional District. The way to stop them from winning is by winning elections. The best way for Biden to do that is to "be nice," if you want to put it that way, and not be perceived as using this to attack Trump. That's the political reality. If you can't handle that, get out of the kitchen. As for "pearl clutching," give me a break. There's plenty of time to go after Trump once he manages to stumble off his hospital bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Literally in this thread series - the previous thread - we have Biden repeating that Trump is the worst president we have ever had and a terrible person when asked to walk it back. Like that happened! Two days ago! And because Biden won't actively wish for a person's death or make fun of their sickness hes somehow capitulating? Oh, fuck that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, DMC said: Um..what the hell does not attacking Trump while he is hospitalized with covid when you're Biden and trying to win an election have to do with what you're talking about in terms of Orban, Duterte, Erdogan? I'm talking about winning this election, that's all I care about. I have absolutely no problem with Ilhan Omar's tweet cited above. But Joe Biden is not running for President of Minnesota's 5th Congressional District. The way to stop them from winning is by winning elections. The best way for Biden to do that is to "be nice," if you want to put it that way, and not be perceived as using this to attack Trump. That's the political reality. If you can't handle that, get out of the kitchen. As for "pearl clutching," give me a break. There's plenty of time to go after Trump once he manages to stumble off his hospital bed. If I haven't made it clear, I'm talking about in the grand scheme of things and looking past this election. This is a larger disagreement within the Democratic party. As I know you know, there are a lot of folks, especially on the left who think that Democrats hamstring themselves by caring too much about civility as if that is going to be what wins them the day. I happen to agree to an extent, I think that we have moved into a position where the primary course of action is to call the Republicans rude and hypocrits, and if we want to start to reverse the damage that Trump has done, we need to rethink how we interact with the voters and how we interact with the Republican party because we need make sure that they never come to power again (obviously not realistic, but that should be our goal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Civility aside, why WOULDNT Biden be hammering home how incompetent the current White House is? The last few days have given Biden more than enough ammo to prove just how dumb these people are, how big a danger they pose to the public...USE IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: If I haven't made it clear, I'm talking about in the grand scheme of things and looking past this election. Well, if I haven't been clear, I'm not looking past this election. In fact all I'm talking about is how Biden should react right now to Trump's hospitalization. I agree with you in the longterm/grand scheme/whatever you want to call it. But that's not what I'm referring to. Politically, you don't kick a dog when he's down. If/when he gets back up? Absolutely! And if he doesn't, all the better. In the meantime, you let the media demonstrate his reckless behavior. Even Drudge is linking it. No need to get your hands dirty - and it'd be a mistake to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Cats Are Bad Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I don't find it at all comforting to see the words "Doomsday Planes" in my news feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Trump the super spreader- https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5f78aa3bc5b64cf6a2510c47 It doesn't surprise me that team Trump would try to cover up Hicks positive test, that he would hide his own symptoms and then knowingly attend a fundraiser that exposed dozens of unwitting bystanders. That selfishness is in perfect keeping with Trump's lack of character. No surprise to me. But what I just cannot fathom, is how one could know these facts and still support someone that consistently acts this way, consistently displays such low morals and lack of integrity? How does one conclude that, "Hey that's the guy I want leading us"? It just baffles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Quote A Reuters/Ipsos poll shows Democratic candidate Joe Biden has opened his widest lead in a month in the US presidential race after Trump tested positive for the coronavirus. The national opinion survey, taken over 2-3 October, shows “little indication of an outpouring of support for the president beyond Trump’s core group of followers,” Reuters said Also, BoJo had sent out upbeat messages for the first few days of his condition, but then it significantly worsened. Like Trump himself said, the next few days are critical. If (and thats a big if) the timeline is correct, the virus entering his respiratory system can still take some more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Also, BoJo had sent out upbeat messages for the first few days of his condition, but then it significantly worsened. Like Trump himself said, the next few days are critical. If (and thats a big if) the timeline is correct, the virus entering his respiratory system can still take some more time. What are you quoting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Its from the Guardian live feed where they mentioned the latest polls, and were comparing Trump and Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 50 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Trump the super spreader- https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5f78aa3bc5b64cf6a2510c47 It doesn't surprise me that team Trump would try to cover up Hicks positive test, that he would hide his own symptoms and then knowingly attend a fundraiser that exposed dozens of unwitting bystanders. That selfishness is in perfect keeping with Trump's lack of character. No surprise to me. But what I just cannot fathom, is how one could know these facts and still support someone that consistently acts this way, consistently displays such low morals and lack of integrity? How does one conclude that, "Hey that's the guy I want leading us"? It just baffles the mind. By not carrying about any of that stuff. Taxes, guns, abortion, military spending, getting rid of Obamacare, conservative Supreme court for the next 20 years, at least, Freedom(TM). It is beaten into the electorate over and over to vote on policies, so that's what people do. If voters were encouraged to only vote based on a person's character you'd probably get different people at all levels of elected govt from what you mostly get now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 4 hours ago, DMC said: The way to stop them from winning is by winning elections. The best way for Biden to do that is to "be nice," if you want to put it that way, and not be perceived as using this to attack Trump. That's the political reality. If you can't handle that, get out of the kitchen. As for "pearl clutching," give me a break. There's plenty of time to go after Trump once he manages to stumble off his hospital bed. Specifically, it's about drawing a stark contrast. On the one hand you have a raging, a self-serving asshole, and on the other you have a kind, considerate man. So like was said before, it's decency vs a zero sum-game, win at all costs mentality. Only Biden suffers is he breaks too hard from this carefully set up narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.