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UK Politics - It's a bit glitchy

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Also, you know, those who know that breakdown isn't breakdown are stepping right up to put their own bodies into the breach, and wash, cook, clean, nurse, bury, etc.

That there are personnel even now in the hot spots here in the US committing suicide because they are so overwhelmed, again, has nothing to do with 'too many cases to handle," due to the stepping right up of folks who want everything opened wide all at the same time to jet fuel the economy -- which of course isn't affected by all these sick people and the health care system, such as what's left of it, being understaffed, under-resourced, under-funded.  There's always more where all that comes from, especially when the sorts who demand it all be open step right up to cook, clean, nurse, even open their own bedrooms to the recovering so they can have round the clock nursing, etc. when the number of beds and staff are inadequate for the emergency that, after all, is no emergency, :P

 

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1 hour ago, mormont said:

It's worth noting also that this was at a time when huge amounts of NHS capacity were being redirected towards dealing with the virus, which is not sustainable.

But never mind, I'm sure if hospital staff just remember to wash their hands, those silly beans, we'll all be fine.

Also, in my wife’s dept (neurological ie brain surgery etc) they now need almost double the nurses for every op - to minimise risks of bringing thr virus into theatre, they have extra nurses outside the theatre to fetch stuff, so the ones in theatre dont have to leave.

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7 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

We've now entered Tier 3 in Lancashire. 

With different restrictions than Liverpool... 

I see the idea of using clearly-defined tiers to make the different types of restrictions easy to understand didn't last long. Liverpool must have been Tier 3.0 so you are in Tier 3.1.

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34 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I see the idea of using clearly-defined tiers to make the different types of restrictions easy to understand didn't last long. Liverpool must have been Tier 3.0 so you are in Tier 3.1.

We have less restrictions than them so 2.9 for us? 

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The #1 complaint everyone is making about the COVID restrictions is "lack of clarity," so the government introducing a three-tier alert system but then immediately deviating from it to create some kind bizarre infinite-tier system where Tier 3 means a different thing depending on the county may actually be Peak Boris. It is the omnishambles/clusterfuck elevated to an art form. No comedy writer could ever have come up with this.

Meanwhile and almost certainly not coincidentally, support for Scottish independence has soared to 58%. A poll earlier this year putting it at 55% was enough to make Boris shit himself and make an emergency trip north of the border to pretend that he gives a toss about Scotland, so it'll be interesting to see what this does.

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21 hours ago, mormont said:

It's worth noting also that this was at a time when huge amounts of NHS capacity were being redirected towards dealing with the virus, which is not sustainable.

Just to add to this - to deal with the first surge of infections, this is what happened.

1. NHS closed for all elective surgeries/ procedures - all cancer care, all elective operations, all kinds of procedures like scopes for the stomach, bowel, lung etc were all cancelled. Clinic visits to the hospital were cancelled. Non-urgent care was cancelled for 3 months starting from April to free up beds.

We are already seeing some of this scaling back happen in Liverpool with the Liverpool University Hospital NHS Trust chief executive saying the following

Quote

Liverpool University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust chief executive Steve Warburton told staff in a memo on Monday that it had reached a "critical point".

He said the trust was scaling back planned procedures, adding it was "taking a phased approach to reducing our elective programme, while exploring options with other providers to maintain some of this work in alternative locations".

2. Staff were pulled from completely different fields and redeployed to the Accident and Emergency, the Intensive Care Unit and acute medical units, sometimes those doctors not even from these fields. Surgeons, given that non-urgent care was cancelled, were redeployed to places they would not ordinarily work

Staff were redeployed, medical students that had still not finished their final year exams were asked to start work in April instead of August. Retired doctors were told to come back in and help the NHS.

3. Speaking to what Derfel Cadarn states regarding burnout - NHS doctors and nurses were put on a special covid rota during the crisis to cope with the staffing levels.

Here is the medical director of Liverpool University Hospitals stating what will happen if community transmission continues at the rate it is

Non-urgent care, the redeployment of staff, and the covid rota all changed back to normal during the months that admissions were low. Delaying non-urgent care affects patient outcomes, we've already done it once, and it should not be done again, that is why it is important to suppress the virus so the NHS is not in the position it was in back in March.

I usually don't respond to Heartofice's posts, but these few over the last few pages show a gross ignorance of what went on from March to August and zero intellectual curiosity to try and understand why the last few weeks are concerning. I cannot emphasize how important it is not to cancel all non-urgent care and I hope that doesn't happen again. If admissions rise to the extent that they did, it will all have to be cancelled again.

Edited by Raja

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Meanwhile and almost certainly not coincidentally, support for Scottish independence has soared to 58%. A poll earlier this year putting it at 55% was enough to make Boris shit himself and make an emergency trip north of the border to pretend that he gives a toss about Scotland, so it'll be interesting to see what this does.

It is making me wonder just how high support for independence can get in those polls. I think there's a significant number of people who would never back independence although it definitely seems to be in the minority now.

I'm sure not even Boris can really think that him visiting Scotland would get anything to help his cause, although maybe they think that he has to make some token effort.

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6 hours ago, mormont said:

It's worth noting also that this was at a time when huge amounts of NHS capacity were being redirected towards dealing with the virus, which is not sustainable.

But never mind, I'm sure if hospital staff just remember to wash their hands, those silly beans, we'll all be fine.

Silly goose, a round of applause once a week will soon sort out all of their problems.

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Wales has instigated a two-week circuit breaker lockdown. Some indications that the national government will see how it goes to see if it's worthwhile applying on a national scale, although there seems to be reluctance due to it being a blunt instrument (so it's unnecessary to insist that somewhere with very low COVID issues, like Cornwall, should lock down because people 200 miles away are experiencing an outbreak).

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47 minutes ago, Werthead said:

...(so it's unnecessary to insist that somewhere with very low COVID issues, like Cornwall, should lock down because people 200 miles away are experiencing an outbreak).

It seems to me that Europe and the UK have gone so horribly wrong because this concept of being able to watch regions and shut down outbreaks on a regional basis, while intellectually and analytically extremely attractive, is actually extremely difficult to carry out.

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58 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

It seems to me that Europe and the UK have gone so horribly wrong because this concept of being able to watch regions and shut down outbreaks on a regional basis, while intellectually and analytically extremely attractive, is actually extremely difficult to carry out.

Yes. And the fact is that the UK is a relatively small country, so a "region" in some cases is so tiny that it's impossible to keep people out. People commute outside their region and with the lack of meaningful financial support for regions in lockdown means that people can't follow the regulations or risk losing their homes. The situation is turning into a shitshow.

That's what's happening in Manchester. The government feels (probably not incorrectly) that the situation there warrants an increase in restrictions, but the mayor has pointed out that people cannot survive on a 40% regular income drop and wants that reduced to 20% as during the nationwide lockdown before he'll consider it, which the government has been squirming over but having established the precedent can't really refute, at least not without losing the fragile support they built up in the north in the last election.

Edited by Werthead

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Andrew Neil getting owned by a couple of kids despite trying to mansplain ‘compulsory’ to them. 

 

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4 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Andrew Neil getting owned by a couple of kids despite trying to mansplain ‘compulsory’ to them. 

 

The girls are cute and it's nice seeing kids trying to be engaged in politics.

But what exactly is the context here? 

Because on a particular topic I can see myself either agreeing with Niel or the girls.

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I don’t get it.

Are we supposed to assume that it isn’t a jokey quip set up by the show and that Andrew Neil isn’t in on the joke?

Extra points for actually using the phrase ‘mansplaining’ in 2020 though 

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33 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The girls are cute and it's nice seeing kids trying to be engaged in politics.

But what exactly is the context here? 

Because on a particular topic I can see myself either agreeing with Niel or the girls.

It appears to be about Andrew Neil asking the girls if they think making covid rules will just make things worse as people will deliberately do the opposite of what they’re told. The girl who does most of the talking points out there was opposition to making seatbelts compulsory; it eent ahead, it saves lives, and almost 40 years later it’s ingrained.

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7 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It appears to be about Andrew Neil asking the girls if they think making covid rules will just make things worse as people will deliberately do the opposite of what they’re told. The girl who does most of the talking points out there was opposition to making seatbelts compulsory; it eent ahead, it saves lives, and almost 40 years later it’s ingrained.

Seeing as the Daily Politics show with Neil ended in 2018 I find that unlikely.

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9 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It appears to be about Andrew Neil asking the girls if they think making covid rules will just make things worse as people will deliberately do the opposite of what they’re told. The girl who does most of the talking points out there was opposition to making seatbelts compulsory; it eent ahead, it saves lives, and almost 40 years later it’s ingrained.

I get that he may not be taking the conversation seriously, mostly poking the girls to see how they could respond and think.

But if this did take place during the midst of the pandemic it looks bad.  They’re not social distancing. 

Niel looks obese and is by means a young man so yeah lucky these girls didn't give him covid.

If not, eh, he's fine. 

So he's fiiine. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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