The Bard of Banefort Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 12/3/2020 at 9:16 AM, Eltharion21 said: Ugh I already hate him because Lily James, playing Daemon would be icing on the cake, though I must confess he was good in the Crown. Why don't you like Lily James? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltharion21 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Why don't you like Lily James? I like her that is problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 12/6/2020 at 12:34 AM, Eltharion21 said: My guess is that it is easier to sell looks to wide audience, something that studios and some showrunners cater to. Kenneth Branagh agreed with Chris Hemsworth about depicting his character in Thor for him to dye his eyebrows blonde - maybe trying to be authentic. Something that was frowned upon by studio execs and changed in later movies. From Marilyn Monroe to many copies of look, we see bleached blonde look is popular to the masses. In the homeland how many of Showbiz people are "tastefully" bleached : Karleusa, Bekvalac, Kovacevic, not counting idj spawn? The idea of the likes Karleuša, Bekvalac and other Pamela Anderson clones as Targaryens is absolutely hilarious. Thanks for a good laugh. For others here who are not familiar with the people in question - here's an idea what they look like: https://www.biografija.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/jelena-karleusa-642x336.jpg https://www.espreso.rs/data/images/2019/05/23/19/568827_natasa-bekvalac_ls.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0WLTc0bV5b4/maxresdefault.jpg Now, on the other hand, here are a couple of actresses I could definitely see as Valyrians, with bleached/dyed hair (which they already had in certain roles): Abbey Lee (real hair color dark blonde) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyLqwFuWgAAt_xo?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://d1qxviojg2h5lt.cloudfront.net/images/01EDZJ975XN49MPPBF5DGG7SG6/LOVECRAFT-Abbey-Lee.jpg Rebecca Ferguson (real hair color auburn): https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/the-white-queen1-600x400.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=943&dpr=1.5 Out of the men, Paul Bettany definitely (you don't even need to change his hair color (much), it's so fair-strawberry blond that it looks almost white depending on the lighting) Travis Fimmel, Alexander Skarsgård, Tobias Santelmann (Young Ragnar from The Last Kingdom)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Eltharion21 said: I like her that is problem If it makes you feel better, I think they broke up. 3 hours ago, Annara Snow said: The idea of the likes Karleuša, Bekvalac and other Pamela Anderson clones as Targaryens is absolutely hilarious. Thanks for a good laugh. For others here who are not familiar with the people in question - here's an idea what they look like: https://www.biografija.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/jelena-karleusa-642x336.jpg https://www.espreso.rs/data/images/2019/05/23/19/568827_natasa-bekvalac_ls.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0WLTc0bV5b4/maxresdefault.jpg Now, on the other hand, here are a couple of actresses I could definitely see as Valyrians, with bleached/dyed hair (which they already had in certain roles): Abbey Lee (real hair color dark blonde) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyLqwFuWgAAt_xo?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://d1qxviojg2h5lt.cloudfront.net/images/01EDZJ975XN49MPPBF5DGG7SG6/LOVECRAFT-Abbey-Lee.jpg Rebecca Ferguson (real hair color auburn): https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/the-white-queen1-600x400.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=943&dpr=1.5 Out of the men, Paul Bettany definitely (you don't even need to change his hair color (much), it's so fair-strawberry blond that it looks almost white depending on the lighting) Travis Fimmel, Alexander Skarsgård, Tobias Santelmann (Ragnar the Younger from The Last Kingdom)... I'm not sure if she has the acting chops (I've only seen her in comedies) but based purely on appearance, Amanda Seyfried looks a lot like how I'd imagine some of the historical Targaryens. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dif9IAGW0AIw61k.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a9/cb/a5/a9cba5a57ed22e1dc66bfb4510805689.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said: If it makes you feel better, I think they broke up. I'm not sure if she has the acting chops (I've only seen her in comedies) but based purely on appearance, Amanda Seyfried looks a lot like how I'd imagine some of the historical Targaryens. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dif9IAGW0AIw61k.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a9/cb/a5/a9cba5a57ed22e1dc66bfb4510805689.jpg Oh yes, Seyfried would be good as a Targaryen. And she is a good actress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 The Illuminerdi just put out another alleged leak of casting descriptions - a LARGE one, but totally unverified: https://www.theilluminerdi.com/2020/12/08/house-of-the-dragon-characters/ Quote Ser Criston Cole – Male – late 20s/30s – Series Regular: Middle Eastern or Mediterranean. Ruggedly handsome, the soul of knighthood and chivalry, a capable warrior. Mysaria – Female – 30s – Series Regular – A striver and schemer, she seeks to rise up in a society that sees her as an outcast and an outsider. Her beginnings are as a sex worker, but she never lets an opportunity slide, and her intelligence and unflagging ambition will carry her ever nearer to her goal: to wiled power over the powerful. It remains to be seen whether she will use it to gain acceptance or revenge. Life in Westeros is a game, and she plans to win it. Rhaenys Targaryen – Female – Series Regular – Wise and cultured, “The Queen Who Never Was.” She was passed over for the throne simply because she was born without a cock. Clever, capable, spirited, and proud, she is the embodiment of grit and grace and is utterly fearless (she is also a dragon rider). Torn between her loyalty to her husband and her own feminist aspirations and disappointments, she struggles with supporting the claim of the princess – a younger but wilder version of her own self – who stands to inherit the Seven Kingdoms. A feminist, but a realist, she harbors doubt that the princess will make capable ruler. Harrold Westerling – Male – Series Regular – The Commander and longest-serving member of the Kingsguard who still remembers the lustre of the storied Seven Knights. A once powerful Knight and a successful military background so a man with presence and status. Given the responsibility to the King to watch over and guard the Princess. In the current regime, where widespread peace has led to complacency and indulgence, he feels something of a loss of purpose, but nevertheless serves the King with a fierce, if quiet, loyalty. They also mention that Rhaenyra, Alicent, and now Corlys Velaryon will have "Regular" cast billing on the show....though they never put out a casting sheet description for Corlys Velaryon. I'm not sure if any of this is true. This is the same site that put out that alleged Daemon Targaryen casting description. But going through it: They want Criston Cole to look like a Salty Dornishman, even though he's from the Stormlands side of the Dornish Marches? Not implausible... ....GRRM would never use the term "feminist" in a medieval setting....though it's not impossible that a casting sheet targeted at actors would try to explain it in terms they're familiar with. Harrold Westerling was indeed the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard in the early reign of King Viserys I, until his death in 112 AC. Otherwise this characterization is new, but not incongruent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 This worries me. The use of the words "feminist ideals", Criston Cole being described as looking Dornish, and Harrold Westerling being described as having a "successful military background" despite growing up and serving under Jaehaerys I, a king who fought in two campaigns that were laughably easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Also, doesn't Harrold Westerling die too early to qualify as a series regular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Series regular is a pay grade thing: there were over 2 dozen on any season of GoT. depends on how old Westerling is: the Faith Militant uprising was 53 years before great council of Harrenhal: having him as the aged grandfatherly LC he might be 75 or so. Plus there’s always pirates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltharion21 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 10 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said: They want Criston Cole to look like a Salty Dornishman, even though he's from the Stormlands side of the Dornish Marches? Not implausible... Well at least they got the Salty part: Quote However it happened, from that day forward the love that Ser Criston Cole had borne for Rhaenyra Targaryen turned to loathing, and the man who had hitherto been the princess’s constant companion and champion became the most bitter of her foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 On 12/3/2020 at 6:20 PM, The Bard of Banefort said: Matt Smith isn't exactly the first person I think of when I picture a swaggering, hot-headed Targaryen, to be honest. I'm surprised they aren't looking at more Scandinavian/Icelandic actors for this show, since that's more of the Targaryen "look." There are certainly a lot of very talented British actors out there, but I feel like there's this mentality where in order for a fantasy drama to be legitimate, everyone needs to be British. I remember suggesting that they actually try to cast the albino actors out there to play Targaryens because many albinos look Valyrian by birth, and those who don't could be made to look like that with a minimum of make-up. Things can be done better than with those ridiculous GoT wigs. And that would actually give a minority more visibility even if most of the characters are all white. I think Smith can certainly get across the cockiness of Daemon Targaryen ... as well as his vulnerability, which he is apparently supposed to have her. He is hungry for the love and approval of his brother the king in this show, according to the casting sheet, which means we won't start with the experienced field general we get in 129 AC. No idea whether the show is going to bother with the Stepstones campaign ... but if they did, they could show how Daemon is hardened by war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 8 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said: This worries me. The use of the words "feminist ideals", Criston Cole being described as looking Dornish, and Harrold Westerling being described as having a "successful military background" despite growing up and serving under Jaehaerys I, a king who fought in two campaigns that were laughably easy. The idea there seems to be that Princess Rhaenys is supportive of her cousin's succession to the Iron Throne, nothing more or beyond that. She isn't opposed to the idea that Rhaenyra should rule. The Westerling thing - something I've trouble imagining some fans came up with because he is a completely irrelevant character in FaB - is actually very encouraging for me. This would mean that they intend to focus on the Rhaenyra-Cole story in season 1, with Harrold Westerling playing an important role in the entire Kingsguard business ... it might even mean that his death - and Cole succeeding him as LC - will be an important plot point. Also note that Cole is merely described as a knight in the casting sheet, not a Kingsguard ... which would also point to the idea that season 1 would cover the first half of the reign of Viserys I. And that would be a very good thing. The idea that they would have to bother with accurately depicting the reign of the Old King - which was a time of peace -, on the other hand, is somewhat far-fetched. It strikes me as if they want to contrast the reign of Viserys I as a peace-and-plenty reign with the 'harder times of the past'. And to be sure, if they want to reference stuff from FaB, then Westerling can be old enough to have fought with Jaehaerys I against the Vulture King in his youth before he became a Kingsguard. Not to mention that they could make up a war taking place in the later years of the reign of the Old King. As for Cole - he is ideally suited to have more southern looks, considering he dark-haired in the books. That certainly allows for him to have mediterranean looks. But even if it didn't - there is no harm in making him look this way. I think a good way to go with season 1 would be to close with Rhaenyra's wedding to Laenor Velaryon, and her fallout with Criston Cole (including the tourney). Because I definitely think that a core plot of season 1 will revolve around them. Then they could jump some years ahead, and start with Rhaenyra already having (some of) her sons, and gradually reveal the various menage à trois thing to culminate things in the events of 120 AC. If they do rearrange things somewhat then this year could be much closer to the beginning of the war, so that we don't get nine years between the Aemond incident and the king's death. Because, to be sure, nothing important happens in that era in the books aside from one wedding, a couple of births, and some attempted power grabs. But the core for a continuation of court intrigue and buildup of the war should be to actually depict what Cole does to destroy Rhaenyra after their fallout, and what happens to make things between her and Alicent worse and worse. You have to understand all that, to understand and care about the war. And a really great way for all that is to spend considerable time on the Velaryon-Strong-Targaryen business in season 2, both with Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin, as well as Daemon-Laena and eventually Rhaenyra-Daemon - which I could see being something that flowers only later in the show, skipping all that weird Mushroom stuff while Rhaenyra was still a child ... or merely referencing that. They could indicate do a time jump for the last episode, and show Helaena and the children visiting the dying king, give us Rhaenyra's pregnancy and the first view of Daemon's sons on Dragonstone, etc. There is also a good chance that the backstory is going to be changed. Viserys I and Daemon are likely going to be older than in the books when the king's reign starts, with Rhaenyra also being older than her book counterpart. It might even be that Aemma Arryn is never going to be queen but that she might have died before the show started ... if it starts with Viserys' ascension and some years into his reign. What we learn about Mysaria also indicates that we are going to see the beginning of her relationship with Daemon, and subsequently also his time as commander of the City Watch. A potential plot line I can see for her is that the revenge she seems to be after eventually might revolve around the woman Daemon eventually married - either Laena Velaryon or Rhaenyra Targaryen - which could indicate we are going to get the uncle-niece thing only later in Rhaenyra's life not early on with Daemon as a rival to Criston Cole. I don't think they are likely to bother with Rhea Royce as an important character, although it might very well work to have Daemon with an absent wife which we only see in 1-2 episodes before she dies. Chances that we won't see Laenor Velaryon are about zero, if you ask me, even though we don't have any information on him so far. To have an important gay character would be far to great an opportunity to miss, especially in light of the potential of the menage à trois story further down the road. This is a much better plot for television than most of the Dance material as such, which doesn't really focus much on the feelings and personal relationships of the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Casting actual albinos sounds impractical - and they're not "albinos" as such. Unless of course we're talking Bloodraven, but that goes without saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 We don't know if this leak is even remotely true. BUT I have a running hope that Season 1 might not even use up all of the "Rogue Prince" material, but start with Great Council of Harrenhal (mentioned in official casting sheet)....and END with Criston Cole killing Strong at the tourney. Who here remembers that bullshit "Season 2 is the season of romance!" line that D&D and Cogman gave to us at the time? Yeah, as they later admitted, it was because they were pandering Richard Madden as a romantic lead. Actually think of just how much they played up "Romance" that season that the books didn't: Robb/Talisa, Jon/Ygritte (not as bad, but eating up screentime), and...actually trying to make Tyrion/Shae a thing.All due to their damnable "Q Ratings"! - as GRRM admitted, to try to get the pigs among the casual viewers come oinking back for more. Well Season 1 of House of the Dragon will give them romance - it'll rub their faces in it! It seems we'll have the will-they won't they with Rhaenyra, Criston Cole, Harwin Strong - before then having Rhaenyra forced to marry Laenor Velaryon in an arranged match. THAT is GRRM realism there; medieval marriages were for politics not love. If we play our cards right, season 1 could be a total undercutting of that "Q Rating Romance" crap they shoved at us; ending with her trapped in a loveless marriage to her gay cousin, and with Cole now her bitterest enemy intent on destroying her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 13 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Chances that we won't see Laenor Velaryon are about zero, if you ask me, even though we don't have any information on him so far. To have an important gay character would be far to great an opportunity to miss, especially in light of the potential of the menage à trois story further down the road. This is a much better plot for television than most of the Dance material as such, which doesn't really focus much on the feelings and personal relationships of the characters. Surely, you don't think they're going to try to win back the female audience by presenting Mushroom's version of a Laenor/Harwin sex scene while Rhaenyra watches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said: Casting actual albinos sounds impractical - and they're not "albinos" as such. Unless of course we're talking Bloodraven, but that goes without saying. Oh, but have you actually looked at pictures of real world albino models and actors? Do a quick picture search in the net. They look exactly like Valyrians ... which is why I think George is actually not really getting the concept of albinism with Bloodraven compared the other Valyrians. Especially if you think about how Targaryens like Maekar look like (white hair) compared to Bloodraven. In essence, all the Valyrians are albinos if you ask me, and it is kind of meaningless to have an albino in a bloodline of albinos, even if he is somewhat paler still. Certain types of albinos do have those red eyes, but the hair is, mostly, the kind of platinum white that's characteristic of Valyrians, just as the skin is very pale, and the eyes can be light blue, violet, even purplish. 1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said: Surely, you don't think they're going to try to win back the female audience by presenting Mushroom's version of a Laenor/Harwin sesx scene while Rhaenyra watches? Oh, no, I mean that this is actually a potential interesting conundrum if you think what must have happened there behind the scenes. The king names his daughter his heir despite the fact that she has brothers ... an already somewhat difficult situation. And then he decides to marry her to her gay cousin, greatly complicating the prospect of getting grandchildren quickly ... or at all. The evil stepmother technically can just sit there and smile and watch while Rhaenyra's childbearing years pass and her inability to produce heirs weakens her position as heir. If after the death of the childless queen the throne will pass to Aegon or his children, anyway, why bother handing the throne to her at all? It is in this context that this marriage is going to happen ... and Rhaenyra deciding to look for a sperm-donor elsewhere. But I also see potential in there being a kind of consensual polyamory thing going on there, both with Laenor, his lover, Harwin, and Rhaenyra, as well as later, when Rhaenyra and Laena may have had a thing. And that's something that could be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 @Lord Varys My worry is that they're going to make Criston a Dornishman, which doesn't sit well with me since he's a Stormlander. As for Ser Harrold, if they want him to be a seasoned veteran they should involve him in the Faith Militant Uprising and the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye since a Lord Westerling fought for Aegon the Uncrowned in canon (which reminds me that in this world Aerys II is Egg's son). That and/or there should be a bloodier war than in canon during Jaehaerys I's reign. My suggestion for the latter would be to make Septon Moon a bigger threat and/or have the Dornish actually invade in 48 AC, during which time Rogar dies, forcing Harrold to take charge of the crown's forces. As for relationships, I am curious which version they're going to go with, Criston rejecting Rhaenyra or vice-versa (especially in light of how D & D changed Jaime's AFFC scene in the White Sword Tower). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Oh, and its Joffrey Lonmouth who Criston kills during the wedding tourney. Harwin gets away with a few broken bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 6 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said: @Lord Varys My worry is that they're going to make Criston a Dornishman, which doesn't sit well with me since he's a Stormlander. I don't think they intend to make him a Dornishman ... but even if they did, why should anyone care? The books have him as the son of a steward to the Dondarrions, but we have no idea where the hell this steward and his family come from, no? The folk of Blackhaven should have a lot of Dornish blood since they are neighbors who would have stolen each other's women for millennia. 6 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said: As for Ser Harrold, if they want him to be a seasoned veteran they should involve him in the Faith Militant Uprising and the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye since a Lord Westerling fought for Aegon the Uncrowned in canon (which reminds me that in this world Aerys II is Egg's son). That and/or there should be a bloodier war than in canon during Jaehaerys I's reign. My suggestion for the latter would be to make Septon Moon a bigger threat and/or have the Dornish actually invade in 48 AC, during which time Rogar dies, forcing Harrold to take charge of the crown's forces. The fact that they have tweaked the history/family tree in the past would indicate that they don't have to ground such things in canon materials, if they don't want to. Just as I'd say that they would not be bound to the claim of GoT that Egg is the father of the Mad King if they want to ignore that. Aemon was old, perhaps he was already confusing things? I'd also expect them to never again reference 'King Orys' if they know what's good for them. But then, to be sure, depending how old the fellow is to be and how early the show is going to start, he certainly could be veteran of the wars of Maegor's reign. 6 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said: As for relationships, I am curious which version they're going to go with, Criston rejecting Rhaenyra or vice-versa (especially in light of how D & D changed Jaime's AFFC scene in the White Sword Tower). I expect them to not go for one of the versions but to tell their own complex version of things, to make this a workable story for a TV series. But, to be sure, the only take on it that works is going to be Rhaenyra either rejecting Cole or her ending the relationship they already have (and I do expect them to have some kind real romance, possibly even a proper sexual relationship), for there to be lasting resentment on Cole's side. The other esoteric interpretations would be grounded in weird characterizations that would not really work with a broader TV audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Lord Varys said: And then he decides to marry her to her gay cousin, greatly complicating the prospect of getting grandchildren quickly A man may not enjoy the taste of fish, but when fish is served, he eats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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