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Jon Mark Selmy

Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon Book

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8 minutes ago, bluntt said:

I strongly believe this question was asked way early in the show. Probably the first 2-3 seasons.

Yep. Pretty sure that GRRM was quoted to that effect by Hibberd back in S1 interviews. What else was there to complain about but the budget at the time really? The show as far more faithful, and GRRM wasn't likely to criticize some of the changes they made at such an early stage, so he'd complain about wishing things were grander while also acknowledging that, well, that's budgets for you. 

Edited by Ran

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13 minutes ago, bluntt said:

I strongly believe this question was asked way early in the show. Probably the first 2-3 seasons.

Yeah, we can also expect that the answers from George about later stuff in the show are from interviews from that time ... it would be a stretch to assume he agreed to talk about the show when everything went to hell. Even more so considering that we should then also have some answers of his about certain later developments.

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4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yep. Pretty sure that GRRM was quoted to that effect by Hibberd back in S1 interviews. What else was there to complain about but the budget at the time really? The show as far more faithful, and GRRM wasn't likely to criticize some of the changes they made at such an early stage, so he'd complain about wishing things were grander while also acknowledging that, well, that's budgets for you. 

IIRC he said this also in a Q&A after S1. His least favourite scene was Robert's hunt because of the lack of budget they had, and that he "really liked" the addition of Drogo ripping out Mago's tongue. I seem to remember him saying he was disappointed by killing off Marillion as well. But yes, S1 changes tended to be fairly minor. As the show continued they began veering off much more significantly from the tonal ambitions of ASOIAF and we end up with, say, the feudal order not mattering anymore as Bronn insults people several stations above him to their faces, or Cersei blowing up the sept with no repercussions, or action scenes resembling something from The Avengers more than a serious war depiction. 

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

The book directly quotes GRRM saying it was Stannis decision, so on what basis are you skeptical?

Oh, just that context matters and I need more context.  I guess I shouldn't say I'm skeptical that it will even happen.  As you say, this new book directly says it will.  I just have many questions of how it's going to be logical/feasible in ASoIaF?  But it's Martin's story and, if anyone can write it well, he can.

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20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, we can also expect that the answers from George about later stuff in the show are from interviews from that time ... it would be a stretch to assume he agreed to talk about the show when everything went to hell. Even more so considering that we should then also have some answers of his about certain later developments.

He did the 60 Minutes interview, where he praised the show as a faithful adaptation, just before season 8, which was years after the show went off the rails. 

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

He did the 60 Minutes interview, where he praised the show as a faithful adaptation, just before season 8, which was years after the show went off the rails. 

Compared to the 'Nightflyers' movie it was a faithful adaptation ;-).

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29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Compared to the 'Nightflyers' movie it was a faithful adaptation ;-).

"Faithful adaptation" IMHO is something like the BBC'S 1995 version of Pride and Prejudice.  We know that there are huge divergences already between show and books.

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You guys realise that this guy named George RR Martin was an executive producer of that show and as such proportionaly participated on the profit of that show? Why would he hurt his own business by criticizing it? Not to mention the fact that he is developing a new show in the same universe? 

As far as the books go 

"If you can't write em', spoil them" -GRRM :)

 

Edited by Dalinar

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7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

"Faithful adaptation" IMHO is something like the BBC'S 1995 version of Pride and Prejudice.  We know that there are huge divergences already between show and books.

George has gone on record stating that GoT is a very faithful adaptation compared to 90-95% or more of the adaptations in existence. That is rather carefully phrased. It isn't wrong if you consider all the adaptations where entire plotlines and characters no longer exist and/or do exactly the opposite in a very broad sense than what's the story in the novels or plays the adapatation is based on.

But it doesn't praise GoT as a faithful adaptation of ASoIaF, nor does it indicate the man is happy with how it turned out.

The kind of interviews and statements we get are very broad and general ... the fact that George stopped writing screenplays, that the credits changed from 'created/written by' to 'created/written for television by', that George was no longer involved in talking about the characters and plots of books and show as he did in the earlier seasons, etc. shows that he wasn't happy what was happening.

I mean, if he had been happy, he could have given long speeches how the show took this or that great spin on his characters and how he thought how they took a great take on Dorne, etc. But we didn't get any of that.

And regarding the public interviews/talks we got - that's all very general. We don't have any commentaries of his on, say, the deaths of Doran Martell and Myrcella than we got on the Littlefinger-Sansa. Up to season 4 he was still talking about things, afterwards there is pretty much nothing of substance.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

George has gone on record stating that GoT is a very faithful adaptation compared to 90-95% or more of the adaptations in existence. That is rather carefully phrased. It isn't wrong if you consider all the adaptations where entire plotlines and characters no longer exist and/or do exactly the opposite in a very broad sense than what's the story in the novels or plays the adapatation is based on.

But it doesn't praise GoT as a faithful adaptation of ASoIaF, nor does it indicate the man is happy with how it turned out.

The kind of interviews and statements we get are very broad and general ... the fact that George stopped writing screenplays, that the credits changed from 'created/written by' to 'created/written for television by', that George was no longer involved in talking about the characters and plots of books and show as he did in the earlier seasons, etc. shows that he wasn't happy what was happening.

I mean, if he had been happy, he could have given long speeches how the show took this or that great spin on his characters and how he thought how they took a great take on Dorne, etc. But we didn't get any of that.

And regarding the public interviews/talks we got - that's all very general. We don't have any commentaries of his on, say, the deaths of Doran Martell and Myrcella than we got on the Littlefinger-Sansa. Up to season 4 he was still talking about things, afterwards there is pretty much nothing of substance.

He is embarresed that others had to finish his job maybe? Ever thought of that? What was he going to say on Television to million of viewers :"Oh GoT after Season 4 is a really great adaptation of my non-existing work. See, this is exactly how I am trying to write it down for ten years."

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George R.R. Martin: The series has-- has-- been extremely faithful, compared to 97 percent of all television and movie adaptations of literary properties. But it's not completely faithful. And-- and it can't be. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons.

 

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

George R.R. Martin: The series has-- has-- been extremely faithful, compared to 97 percent of all television and movie adaptations of literary properties. But it's not completely faithful. And-- and it can't be. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons.

You are making my point for me.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

You are making my point for me.

LOL, hope springs eternal I guess.  People refused to believe that Bran becoming King was from the author, it was.  So was Stannis himself ordering his daughter's death.  If the books are ever finished it is highly probable that the rest of the main characters have 97% similar ending...Jon will go back to the Wall as a nobody, Arya leaves Westeros, Rickon dies, Sansa becomes queen, Cersei and Jamie die together, Tyrion lives and is rewarded, Dany's quest fails and she is murdered.  When someone says that the show is 97% more faithful than other adaptations, it is nonsensical to believe that the major characters have dramatically different endings. 

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17 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

LOL, hope springs eternal I guess.  People refused to believe that Bran becoming King was from the author, it was.  So was Stannis himself ordering his daughter's death.  If the books are ever finished it is highly probable that the rest of the main characters have 97% similar ending...Jon will go back to the Wall as a nobody, Arya leaves Westeros, Rickon dies, Sansa becomes queen, Cersei and Jamie die together, Tyrion lives and is rewarded, Dany's quest fails and she is murdered.  When someone says that the show is 97% more faithful than other adaptations, it is nonsensical to believe that the major characters have dramatically different endings. 

You are discussing with people here, who are constantly forced to chew what they dismissed yesterday. 

For some, this book series was their life I guess. It is not easy overcoming the 5 stages of grief. Especially if you have invested a ridiculous amount of your life in one book series. 

Edited by Dalinar

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8 hours ago, Dalinar said:

You are discussing with people here, who are constantly forced to chew what they dismissed yesterday. 

For some, this book series was their life I guess. It is not easy overcoming the 5 stages of grief. Especially if you have invested a ridiculous amount of your life in one book series. 

Well you are in a book/show forum, do you seriously expect that others but book fans that are passionate will come here to post 1.5years after the shows end and argue about things?

Anyway again:
1. The shows ending is the only ending of the story that we will get
2. I think there is at least 30% chance we dont see Winds ever and about 80% chance we do not see Spring.
3. I think there is at least 30% chance GRRM does not like his story from Winds onward and is rewriting lost of stuff in the last 5 or so years.
4. Its really a shame that GRRM himself is actually confirming/spoiling stuff in a book written by some journalist about the show... i mean he did confirm 100% 3 things that came from him but is avoiding to confirm  or deny the "elephant in the room" that is Daenerys and her journey.

Edited by bluntt

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34 minutes ago, bluntt said:

Well you are in a book/show forum, do you seriously expect that others but book fans that are passionate will come here to post 1.5years after the shows end and argue about things?

Anyway again:
1. The shows ending is the only ending of the story that we will get
2. I think there is at least 30% chance we dont see Winds ever and about 80% chance we do not see Spring.
3. I think there is at least 30% chance GRRM does not like his story from Winds onward and is rewriting lost of stuff in the last 5 or so years.
4. Its really a shame that GRRM himself is actually confirming/spoiling stuff in a book written by some journalist about the show... i mean he did confirm 100% 3 things that came from him but is avoiding to confirm  or deny the "elephant in the room" that is Daenerys and her journey.

FWIW, James Hibberd was asked about the endings for Jon, Dany, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion in the books, on Reddit, yesterday.  "Very different" was his response.

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34 minutes ago, SeanF said:

FWIW, James Hibberd was asked about the endings for Jon, Dany, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion in the books, on Reddit, yesterday.  "Very different" was his response.

Could you share a link pls?

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5 minutes ago, bluntt said:

Could you share a link pls?

My bad.  He said "there will be some rather big differences."  I can't link, unfortunately. 

I liked how Emilia Clarke called out Varys as basically selling out every leader he served.  One of the many sillinesses of the final season was Varys and Tyrion clutching their pearls at the thought of taking Kings Landing by storm, while thinking it humane to starve the population to death.

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3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

My bad.  He said "there will be some rather big differences."  I can't link, unfortunately. 

I liked how Emilia Clarke called out Varys as basically selling out every leader he served.  One of the many sillinesses of the final season was Varys and Tyrion clutching their pearls at the thought of taking Kings Landing by storm, while thinking it humane to starve the population to death.

Found the thread if anyone is interested is from the last 24h and it covers a lot of questions:

 

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https://i.imgur.com/iI8gkka.jpg
 

Hello James.

  1. From what you know, how much of the show's ending for the major characters (Jon, Dany, Arya, Tyrion, Bran, Sansa) aligns with what George is planning?

Quote

The fabled three big things GRRM told Dan and Dave that they used in the back seasons were Hodor's death (and origin story), Stannis burning Shireen and "who ends up on the Iron Throne." The only thing I can say aside from that is there will be some rather big differences.

Sounds interesting especially in the context of the question that is the main heroes.

Edited by bluntt

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