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Alyn Oakenfist

Ned treated Jon really badly

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7 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:
 

Hoster and Catelyn do not have any contempt for the Blackswoods, Brackens, Whent, Piper or Vance, they do have it for the Freys for staying neutral until the last minute. The other ones were punished, with Darry losing half of it's lands for example.

Hoster's contempt for House Frey began before that according to his daughter.

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7 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Lord Darry is a kid of 8. All his brothers died in the Rebellion or were exiled with Dany and Viserys. Dany is not Cersei to hate a boy for a something that happened before he was born. The fact that they were punish shows what happened to the ones that picked the wrong side.

Blackwood and Brackens fought at the same side during the War of the Five Kings, they both also took the side of Aegon I, unless you have a quote of one of them fighting on the loyalist side, I will stick with that they were rebels.

Your first statement makes no sense whatsoever and doesn't even seem like it intends to.

On the second. During Aegon's conquest both rose up against the Ironborn and everyone in the Riverlands hated the Ironborn. During the WoFK you have a particular set of circumstances that end up uniting both Rebels and Loyalists in the Riverlands, Rebels are fighting for the Starks and the Loyalists are fighting against Lannisters. Also on the basis of your argument the only Rebels in the Riverlands were the Tullys and Mallisters.

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On 10/22/2020 at 9:20 PM, Thandros said:

Given that Stannis claim he learned his taste for flesh while squiring for Robert it seems likely that almost all of his squireship was spent in King's Landing. If he did serve in the Greyjoy Rebellion as Robert's squire By the Time Robert would have gotten involved in the War it would have devolved into effectively a series of sieges on Land as the Greyjoy fleet was destroyed at Fair isle. On land the Greyjoys were never a threat and it seems unlikely there was any serious strategic or tactical considerations to do while sieging down Pyke. Yeh but Robar Royce and Theon weren't (at the time) on the opposite side of the faction whose leader's war council they sat on.

Everything we are saying is mostly assumptions. We have so little to work with we can't say anything with certainty.

Doesn't make him a great general.

Where does Ned say that? Don't include the Trident. Robert won that in a duel so it's kinda special case. Also Ashford was a particularly egregious case of stolen credit. Robert may have been present and even notionally in command for victories he personally had little to do with winning. Who won the battle of Tannenberg (1914) Hindenburg, Ludendorff or Hoffmann?

1) Robert was a womanizer before the Rebellion too. I don’t see why he’d have to pick that up in Kings Landing. As for the Greyjoy Rebellion, amphibious operations and sieges are among the most difficult tasks that an army and navy can be asked to perform. Planning the time of the landings, deciding the beachheads, moving ships full of men, weapons, grain, horses etcetera to Pyke. And on and on. He took the capital of the Iron Islands too, so it’s likely that his forces faced the fiercest opposition.

2) I don’t think so. Assuming that he got his army destroyed is an assumption. Me saying that he was a capable general famous for the speed of his armies, his charisma, his ability to win over enemies and winning against gratuitously long odds is pretty much established.

3) I disagree. I think that it does point to him being a great general.

4) George has said that the Battle of the Trident was more complicated than that. Do you have any evidence that someone else was responsible for winning his battles, besides him?

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On 10/23/2020 at 12:19 AM, HerblYY said:

Tywin Lannister, Stannis Baratheon, Randyll Tarly, Roose Bolton, Brynden Tully,  even Robb Stark, Jeor Mormont, Loras fucking Tyrell, Jamie Lannister, Kevan Lannister and even Tyrion defending KL etc. Should I continue?

The more you and @Lee-Sensei talk, the more you two make yourselves idiots.

Oh, and write me please down that Robert won a battle (which we know nothing more about) while outnumbered 5 to 1. Please just write it down again

 

 

Imagine actually believing this. Honestly, I don’t even see an argument for Roose Bolton, Jeor Mormont, Loras Tyrell, Jaime, Kevan and Tyrion. None of them have records that even compare to Roberts.

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2 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

1) Robert was a womanizer before the Rebellion too. I don’t see why he’d have to pick that up in Kings Landing. As for the Greyjoy Rebellion, amphibious operations and sieges are among the most difficult tasks that an army and navy can be asked to perform. Planning the time of the landings, deciding the beachheads, moving ships full of men, weapons, grain, horses etcetera to Pyke. And on and on. He took the capital of the Iron Islands too, so it’s likely that his forces faced the fiercest opposition.

 

Umm because Justin massey being Robert's squire while he was fostering in the Vale is as likely as. In fact it's so unlikely I can't think of a good comparison. Maybe but that's all the stuff Robert wouldn't care one bit for. He would have taken no part in much of the technical parts of an amphibious landing or maybe even much at all.  Maybe but even if they did the amount of tactical planning involved in the siege of Pyke mostly seems to have come down to batter the walls until we have a breach and then charge in and it seems to have mostly worked for them.

2 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

2) I don’t think so. Assuming that he got his army destroyed is an assumption. Me saying that he was a capable general famous for the speed of his armies, his charisma, his ability to win over enemies and winning against gratuitously long odds is pretty much established.

 

Gratuitously is very much the wrong word to use. 5 to 1 or ven 6 to 1 may be big numerical differences but they are very much winnable for any capable commander. I still think given Robert's supposed use of night marches he simply used to catch a larger loyalist force by surprise in the dead of night and routed them with the element of surprise. Any moderately capable general with sufficient aggression and a lack of risk aversion could pull it off. Also I don't think I ever said his army was destroyed. We know that isn't true. Doesn't mean it wasn't scattered and in tatters by Stoney Sept.

2 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

3) I disagree. I think that it does point to him being a great general.

 

Why? The only thing Robert is noted for is aggression and chasima. Aggression can get you a long way used right but it won't make you a great general. Charisma is good for maintaining morale and in a feudal system occasionally gathering reinforcement but it won't win you battles forever.

2 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

4) George has said that the Battle of the Trident was more complicated than that. Do you have any evidence that someone else was responsible for winning his battles, besides him?

Do you have any evidence that he was actually responsible for winning his battles after he joined up with the other armies. We already know he didn't win the Bells.

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15 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

George has said that the Battle of the Trident was more complicated than that.

May I ask what you refer to?

Edited by TsarGrey

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