“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

[butterweedstrover]

Yeah, this is gonna to suck. 

So I was fascinated with much of the theories related to Dany and Quiathe for many years (note: I still am) 

I was introduced on this site to the theory that Quiathe is Shiera Seastar. 

I'm pretty sure that is correct. 

However I was browsing this mainstream web site which was all about the TV show and its tag line was "the finale answered this prophecy from season 2". 

I laughed because I was like "yeah sure, whatever." 

But then I read the article and my heart sank. The mystique of this riddle is completely ruined. 

1. To go north, you must journey south- That's Sansa 

2. To reach the west, you must go east- That's Arya 

3. To go forward you must go back- That's Bran (the weirwoods show the past) 

4. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow- That's Jon (He dies and comes back to life) 

 

This is devastating to me, years of theories and speculations result into the answer being: Quiathe was talking about the Stark children. 

But how are they connected to Dany? I read a thread here were people were saying the Starks are Targaryen by blood so maybe that has something to do with it. There is more to figure out, and I believe this will connect to Dany's origins with the house and the red door and the lemon tree. So speculate away my fellow ASOIAF nerds. 

I'm going to need to drink this off 

[Rosetta Stone]

Quote

To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

You're venturing into Preston Jacobs territory.  Quaithe is telling Daenerys to take an indirect path to her goals.  It is not at all dissimilar to Brynden Rivers teaching Bran.  All the families have buried their heads in the game of thrones and it will take Daenerys and Bran to learn the truth about the existential threat to life.  Quaithe wants her to learn as much as she can about the world.

[butterweedstrover]

10 minutes ago, Rosetta Stone said:

You're venturing into Preston Jacobs territory.  Quaithe is telling Daenerys to take an indirect path to her goals.  It is not at all dissimilar to Brynden Rivers teaching Bran.  All the families have buried their heads in the game of thrones and it will take Daenerys and Bran to learn the truth about the existential threat to life.  Quaithe wants her to learn as much as she can about the world.

I pray you are right, that is a far more interesting/satisfying explanation. 

It also plays well with the Quaithe/bloodraven connection. 

[Rosetta Stone]

9 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

I pray you are right, that is a far more interesting/satisfying explanation. 

It also plays well with the Quaithe/bloodraven connection. 

This story will conclude with a conflict between the two elements.  Fire (Daenerys, Dragons, and the South) versus Ice (Starks and White Walkers). 

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, this is gonna to suck. 

So I was fascinated with much of the theories related to Dany and Quiathe for many years (note: I still am) 

I was introduced on this site to the theory that Quiathe is Shiera Seastar. 

I'm pretty sure that is correct. 

However I was browsing this mainstream web site which was all about the TV show and its tag line was "the finale answered this prophecy from season 2". 

I laughed because I was like "yeah sure, whatever." 

But then I read the article and my heart sank. The mystique of this riddle is completely ruined. 

1. To go north, you must journey south- That's Sansa 

2. To reach the west, you must go east- That's Arya 

3. To go forward you must go back- That's Bran (the weirwoods show the past) 

4. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow- That's Jon (He dies and comes back to life) 

 

This is devastating to me, years of theories and speculations result into the answer being: Quiathe was talking about the Stark children. 

But how are they connected to Dany? I read a thread here were people were saying the Starks are Targaryen by blood so maybe that has something to do with it. There is more to figure out, and I believe this will connect to Dany's origins with the house and the red door and the lemon tree. So speculate away my fellow ASOIAF nerds. 

I'm going to need to drink this off 

That's an interesting observation, but I fear it might just be a coincidence or, at best, a nod from GRRM (he does love to do that) like Robb suffering a betrayal for blood (Theon) a betrayal for gold (Walder Frey) and a betrayal for love (Cat).

[Lord Lannister]

My radical theory is Quaithe is feeding Dany these prophecies with enough nuggets of truth to them to have her second guessing herself and distrustful of those all around her. Thus crippling her ability to function effectively. 

[Lady Dacey]

3 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

I was introduced on this site to the theory that Quiathe is Shiera Seastar. 

I'm pretty sure that is correct. 

Why? It's an honest question. It feels so absurd to me, and I have only ever seen one quite unreasonable person espousing that theory, so I'm really curious about what convinced you.

[butterweedstrover]

15 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

Why? It's an honest question. It feels so absurd to me, and I have only ever seen one quite unreasonable person espousing that theory, so I'm really curious about what convinced you.

If I can find the post I'll link it. 

TDLR: The white flame, the obsidian candles, her appearance in book 1, her appearance besides Euron in the forsaken sample chapter, her relationship to the three eyed crow and the parallels between Bran and Dany, the pale skin, the 'starlights' and her face mask in Qarth, Euron's blood eye, etc.  

I'm pretty much 100% convinced I don't really doubt it anymore.  

 

edit: This one from Megorova 

"

Thru Euron Greyjoy and Bloodraven.

 

First of all, Quaithe is definitely Shiera Seastar. In ADWD Dany noticed that Quaithe's mask is made of starlight, and the stars in that "dream" were whispering in a woman's voice, and Dany recognized that voice as Quaithe, also because the voice was saying the same thing as Quaithe previously said to Dany when they met in flesh.

In that dream in ADWD Dany was flying, same as in her fevered dream in AGOT, and in both dreams there were whispering and smiling stars. Now try to visualise what is going on here (skip the sex parts, GRRM used them to distract readers): "Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. "Home," she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame." <- It's obvious that Drogo didn't had sex with Dany, because at that time he was half dead. So what Dany saw and what was actually happening are two different things. There was no stars in a daylight sky, because Dany's labour started during nighttime, and during daytime stars are not visible, also stars don't smile, and they don't whisper. So the stars, that Dany saw in that dream, was Quaithe, who was wearing her starlight mask. Then suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame <- the stars were gone because Quaithe took off her starlight red mask and her black hooded cape, and Dany saw that this person is a dragonseed, with Valyrian brand looks, that's why the visual of stars was replaced with "across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame" <- it's a metaphor for a dragonseed, big wings and fire.

Next what Dany saw was a person with mismatched green-blue eyes, with a glass candle in her hands, and red-black clothes in traditional coloring of Targaryen court - "Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one," <- the ghosts cried as one is a clue that it was ONE person, not many. Her clothes were "faded raiment of kings" not in a sense that she was wearing some rags, but in a sense that her clothes were red-black, traditional colors of Targaryen court, and Targaryens are a kings of the past, kings that are long gone, replaced by Baratheon-Lannisters with their black-gold and red-gold court attire. When Shiera Seastar was young, her hair was silver-gold, now when she is over 100 years old, her hair partially became platinum-white. She's alive and looks much younger than her actual age, because she's a user of blood magic, same as her mother, Serenei of Lys (who was actually Larra Rogare). Opal, amethyst, tourmaline and jade are blue-green gemstones. Most common colors of jade is green and blue. There are tourmalines of all sorts of coloring, including green and blue. And tourmalines have a peculiar quality - there is a bi-colored blue-green variety of them. Amethysts are purple colored gemstones, though they have a secondary hue, and it's either red or blue. And opal is a bi-colored stone with blue and green mixed together, like on this picture - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal

GRRM had specifically chosen those four gemstones to describe eye-color of those mysterious ghosts in Dany's fevered dream, because all four of those stones are either blue or green or bi-colored blue-green/gree-blue, and he wrote that those ghosts cried as one, because it was one person, one person with blue-green eyes in red-black clothes of Targaryen court, a Valyrian with silver-gold and platinum-white hair. And there was only one Targaryen with mismatched blue-green eyes, and it is Shiera Seastar.

So Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, that's one of the reasons why "her mask is made of starlight". And she's a user of glass candles - "In their hands were swords of pale fire".

 

Now in a sample chapter from TWOW we have this:

"When he laughed, his face sloughed off, and the priest saw that it was not Urri but Euron, the smiling eye hidden. He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered around his feet and a forest burned behind him. “The bleeding star bespoke the end,” he said to Aeron. “These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits.” Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded. “I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest.” "

"He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire."

Shadow in woman's form - shadowbinder Quaithe, and she's holding glass candle in her hands, same as in AGOT in Dany's fevered dream.

Euron has mismatched eyes, blue and black. His blue eye is a smiling eye, but his black eye for some reason is a blood eye (blood is red, not black), and he ususally keeps that eye covered. And his nickname is the Crow's Eye. And he knows a lot about magic, and also about the Long Night prophecy he has an insider information. And Quaithe warned Dany that in the house of Urrathon Nightwalker in Qarth glass candles are burning. This Urrathon guy is Euron. In the past history of Westeros there was Urrathon Goodbrother, his story with his nephew, Torgon Greyiron, repeats Euron's story with Theon Greyjoy.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Urrathon_IV_Goodbrother

Thus, Euron is Quaithe's ex-apprentice (same as Mirri Maz Duur and maester Marwyn), she is the Three-Eyed Crow, and he learned magic from her, and thru his blood eye he is connected to her with blood magic (she can see what he sees with that eye), that's why his black eye is a "blood eye", and why his nickname is the Crow's Eye, and why he usually keeps that eye hiden (to prevent his ex-teacher from spying after him), and why Quaithe warned Dany against him/Urrathon - he used Quaithe, learned magic from her, and then betrayed her, and now is using his knowledge to become the victor in the Long Night, and to get the Iron Throne, and to become a god.

 

Also, what happened to Bloodraven seems to be a parallel to what happened to wizard Merlin. Merlin's lover, Nimue, binded him with magic to a tree, and left him to die in a cave. Nimue was a water fairy, and Shiera is a star of the sea, and a sorceress, so she's also sort of like a water fairy. Furthremore, Merlin had two women that he loved, one of them was Nimue, and she fought off his advances and refused to have sex with him. And his other paramour was Morgan le Fay, she did had sex with him (they even had a child, if I'm not mistaken). Shiera allowed Bloodraven to get into her bed, but she refused (over 50 times) to marry with him. So Shiera is a mix of Morgan and Nimue. "Mor" in Morgan's name from Old Welsh means "the sea", similar to Shiera's Sea Star name. Also Morgan is associated with a character from Welsh and Irish mythology - Morrigan. This Morrigan is a queen of phantoms (phantoms are shadows), and she was able to transform into a crow.

A shadow-queen, with a sea-themed name, whose avatar is a crow, and whose lover was a wizard binded to a magic tree - doesn't it sounds familiar?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_le_Fay#Etymology_and_origins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake#In_Le_Morte_d'Arthur

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badb

 

And GRRM is aware of those myths and legends, because there's a House Morrigen in his books, and their castle is called the Crow's Nest.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Morrigen

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Crow's_Nest

 

Thus, the Three-Eyed Crow is Quaithe, also she is Shiera Seastar, and her "third eye" is Euron Greyjoy, nicknamed the Crow's Eye."

[Rose of Red Lake]

3 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

1. To go north, you must journey south- That's Sansa 

2. To reach the west, you must go east- That's Arya 

3. To go forward you must go back- That's Bran (the weirwoods show the past) 

4. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow- That's Jon (He dies and comes back to life) 

 

I'm so intrigued by this.

My first thought - Dany needs to do all the things the Starks are doing if she wants to survive, and Quaithe is trying to tell her this in her typical cryptic way.

[Roswell]

8 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

1. To go north, you must journey south- Could mean going to Sothoryos and the Summer Isles to pick up more soldiers.  A lot of territory are in the southern part of Essos too.  The slaves will need help in fighting their masters in the southern lands.  They will be the people who will migrate with her to the west at the end of the Long Night. 

2. To reach the west, you must go east- Going East to the Dothraki Sea to take over the Dothraki people and bend them to her cause.  It is also tracing in reverse the journey taken by Elissa Farman.  Elissa was a headstrong woman who might have done something to piss off the Others.  Maybe it is for Daenerys to correct Elissa's mistake.  Elissa Farman is almost certain to be Quaithe.  Her ship was allegedly seen in Essos years after she disappeared. 

3. To go forward you must go back- This is about going back to the Mother of Mountains and convincing the Crones to support her.  At first, she will do this to stop the supplier in the slave trade.  She will use the Dothraki to fight the slave masters.

4. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow- She will live through the Long Night and see Spring once again before she can take back Westeros. 

These prophecies have nothing at all to do with the Starks. 

[TedBear]

First, is this really a prophecy? I understood that Quaithe speaking metaphorically to Dany, she was telling Dany to seek knowledge (about magic, dragons, long night, whatever) Dany associates the "shadow" with Asshai and Quaithe says that she will find the truth there, the people of Asshai claim that they were the ones who passed the knowledge about dragons to the Valyrians, although we do not know if it is true, in any case they are strongly linked to magic, dragons are fire and fire "is the light" Dany has a dragon but has no idea what to do with him, but dragons know, because the dragons remember who she is, she is a targaryen, a valyrian and valyrians were immersed in fire and blood magic. Quaithe doesn't seem to prophesy things, she sees people around Dany and people looking for Dany through a glass candle

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I think it's just a roundabout way to say that Dany has to return to Vaes Dothrak. Vaes Dothrak is beneath the shadow of the Mother of Mountains. And in Dany VI, AGoT, Dany passes beneath the shadow of stolen monuments. 

As her litter passed beneath the stolen monuments, she went from sunlight to shadow and back again.

And Dany shouldn't trust Quaithe. If Quaithe really wanted to help her, she could have given her a riddle about the Sons of the Harpy instead of allowing her to go as far as to lock up her two remaining dragons and marry Hizdhar. But Dany surrounded by enemies on all sides in Meereen and outside of it is totes cool because Dany gets to embrace the fire and blood side of her personality. Never mind that the girl was almost poisoned.

[Megorova]

9 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

It feels so absurd to me, and I have only ever seen one quite unreasonable person espousing that theory, so I'm really curious about what convinced you.

By that unreasonable person you probably meant me .

Though I'm not the only reader that figured out who Quaithe is. It's a mystery how did you missed all those other threads about this topic.

This is from 2012

2013

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99023-a-star-of-the-sea-quaithe-shiera-seastar-connecting-the-dots/

2013

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/91021-whatwho-is-quaithe-hersits-motivation/

 

2014

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/118651-is-quaithe-shiera-seastar/

Etc., etc., etc.

 

@butterweedstrover I think that "To go forward you must go back" means that to go towards her goal (Iron Throne), to more forward, Dany has to return back to Vaes Dothrak. Because her son is there. Rhaego is alive. He is the second head of the dragon, thus he will become the second dragonrider. To be able to go to Westeros, first Dany has to reunite with her son.

"To reach the west, you must go east." - before going to Westeros/west she had to go east/Slaver's Bay, to get there an army.

"to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow" - this part is probably something methaphorical. Something like without evil/sadness/sufferings/shadows there is no good/happiness/joy/light, so "to touch the light"/to gain real happiness first she had to know what real suffering is like. She was made to believe that her child is dead, she suffered, she went thru hardships. So when she will be reunited with Rhaego, she will know that happiness has a price.

Or if it's not something methaphorical, then it's something about either Asshai's Shadow or the Mother of Mountains at Vaes Dothrak, that's where Dany will be reunited with her son. Because he is the Stallion that mounts the world and Vaes Dothrak is his city. According to the prophecy he will reunite all Dothraki into a single tribe, and it will happen in Vaes Dothrak.

 

P.S. Rhaego was born alive. Mirri Maz Duur lied that he was born dead and blind. In Dany's fevered dream there was two points of view. One was Dany's, and the other was Rhaego's, from inside of Dany's body. He was going thru birth canal, long hall with stone arches, towards the "red door" thru which he was born. After he went thru that door, Dany, who was seeing the world thru his eyes (because Shiera used magic on Dany and Rhaego to help with his birth), saw herself - "The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door."… the dragon …" And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars."

Shiera/Quaithe was assisting Dany during Rhaego's birth. Maester Marwyn also was there, Dany saw him as Jorah, he was using glass candle, same as Shiera, this is him: "Ser Jorah's face was drawn and sorrowful. "Rhaegar was the last dragon," he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. "The last dragon," he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone."

Mirri Maz Duur was Shiera's apprentice, same as Maester Marwyn and Euron Greyjoy.

AGOT, Dany VII - "When I was younger and more fair, I went in caravan to Asshai by the Shadow, to learn from their mages. Ships from many lands come to Asshai, so I lingered long to study the healing ways of distant peoples. A moonsinger of the Jogos Nhai gifted me with her birthing songs, a woman of your own riding people taught me the magics of grass and corn and horse, and a maester from the Sunset Lands opened a body for me and showed me all the secrets that hide beneath the skin." Ser Jorah Mormont spoke up. "A maester?" "Marwyn, he named himself," the woman replied in the Common Tongue. "From the sea. Beyond the sea. The Seven Lands, he said. Sunset Lands. Where men are iron and dragons rule. He taught me this speech." "A maester in Asshai," Ser Jorah mused. "Tell me, Godswife, what did this Marwyn wear about his neck?" "A chain so tight it was like to choke him, Iron Lord, with links of many metals." "

When Dany was giving birth to Rhaego, Mirri summoned Quaithe's and Marwyn's "shadows" to Drogo's tent, and they came there by using glass candles. 1. Mirri knew Marwyn, 2. Mirri learned magic in Asshai, 3. Quaithe is able to use glass candles, and so is Marwyn; 1 + 2  + 3 = not only Mirri and Marwyn knew each other, they both also knew Quaithe/Shiera, and she was their teacher, thus how to use glass candles Marwyn learned from Shiera.

After Rhaego was born, Dothraki took him. Khal Pono. Rhaego's kidnaping is the treason for blood. Pono was one of Drogo's bloodriders, "blood of his blood", so he is Rhaego's next of kin, thus he took him. If Dany tried to take him back, Pono would have killed Dany and her people, thus Mirri and Jorah agreed to lie to Dany that her child was born dead. Jorah was ashamed to lie to Dany, but he had no other option, because they couldn't fight against Pono's newlyformed Khalasar, in which was 30000 Dothraki, while in Dany's Khalasar there was only 100 people.

Dany will be unable to move forward until she will be reunited with her son, thus she has to go back, to Vaes Dothrak. That's what the riddle is about.

[butterweedstrover]

30 minutes ago, Megorova said:

, thus Mirri and Jorah agreed to lie to Dany that her child was born dead. Jorah was ashamed to lie to Dany, but he had no other option, because they couldn't fight against Pono's newlyformed Khalasar, in which was 30000 Dothraki, while in Dany's Khalasar there was only 100 people.

Dany will be unable to move forward until she will be reunited with her son, thus she has to go back, to Vaes Dothrak. That's what the riddle is about.

Why would Mirri agree to this? 

Are you saying that she never hated Dany to begin with? Interesting if true. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

15 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

I read a thread here were people were saying the Starks are Targaryen by blood so maybe that has something to do with it.

what is this about?

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

what is this about?

This stuff: 

 

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

Why would Mirri agree to this? 

Are you saying that she never hated Dany to begin with? Interesting if true. 

Probably, when she made an agreement that Quaithe will teach her magic, the paiment for it will be Mirri's life. Using knowledge that she learned from Quaithe, Mirri saved many people, and in their world everything has its price. For lives of all those people that Mirri was able to save using Quaithe's magic, Mirri agreed that when Quaithe will ask her for it, Mirri will sacrifice her own life to repay the debt.

After Rhaego was born Shiera was staying with Dany for many hours, and she was whispering secrets to her. Secrets how to hatch a dragon egg. Dany knew what she has to do, because Shiera told her. There was three dragon eggs, thus there was supposed to be three sacrifices. Mirri's life paid for Viserion, the horse's life paid for Rhaegal, Drogo's life paid for Drogon. Viserion's egg hatched first, after the first crack was heard, the piece of its shell, a white with gold, fell from the pyre. On the next morning when Jorah found Dany with her newborn dragons, Drogon was sitting on her back, Viserion was sucking milk at her left breast, Rhaegal at her right. It is known that Viserion hatched first. He hatched and went to his mother to feed. Same with a dragon that hatched second - Rhaegal, he also went to feed. And Drogon hatched the last one, and when he hatched both of Dany's breasts were already occupied, thus he went to sit on her back.

Mirri's life force was the freshest, she was burning alive on Drogo's funeral pire, that's why Viserion's egg hatched first. Rhaegal's egg hatched when the fire reached under wooden logs to the horse's body (in the beginning of that chapter one of Dany's bloodriders killed a horse, and its body was placed under the wood in the pyre). The hatching of each egg was followed by a specific sound effects. First/Viserion's egg hatched with the sound of shattering stone, that's because his future rider, Jon Snow, is a stone dragon that will be awaken from his sleep (will be awaken after dying?). Second/Rhaegal's egg hatched with the sound of screaming horses and shouts of Dothraki, that's because his future rider, Rhaego,  is the Stallion that mounts the world and Khal of khals (a reference to Jesus who is King of kings and Lord of lords). The Third/Drogon's egg hatched with the sound of the breaking of the world, probably because his future rider, the Breaker of Chains/Dany, will eradicate slavery and thus will break existing world order.

Drogo died because he ignored Mirri's recommendations how to treat his wound. He took off poultice that she applied to his wound, and he drunk wine, he infected his wound and alcohol weakened his immunity. And Mirri did absolutely nothing to Rhaego. The ritual that she performed was to exchange the life of Drogo's horse for Drogo's life, which she did, he didn't died. Dany killed him.

Mirri's personal feelings towards Dany are irrelevant.

[Damon_Tor]

16 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, this is gonna to suck. 

So I was fascinated with much of the theories related to Dany and Quiathe for many years (note: I still am) 

I was introduced on this site to the theory that Quiathe is Shiera Seastar. 

I'm pretty sure that is correct. 

However I was browsing this mainstream web site which was all about the TV show and its tag line was "the finale answered this prophecy from season 2". 

I laughed because I was like "yeah sure, whatever." 

But then I read the article and my heart sank. The mystique of this riddle is completely ruined. 

1. To go north, you must journey south- That's Sansa 

2. To reach the west, you must go east- That's Arya 

3. To go forward you must go back- That's Bran (the weirwoods show the past) 

4. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow- That's Jon (He dies and comes back to life) 

 

This is devastating to me, years of theories and speculations result into the answer being: Quiathe was talking about the Stark children. 

But how are they connected to Dany? I read a thread here were people were saying the Starks are Targaryen by blood so maybe that has something to do with it. There is more to figure out, and I believe this will connect to Dany's origins with the house and the red door and the lemon tree. So speculate away my fellow ASOIAF nerds. 

I'm going to need to drink this off 

Unpopular opinion: Quaithe cannot see the future. She has some form of farsight, ie she can see what's happening in far away places right now and can make predictions accordingly. She can also make people dream things. Both of these are probably accomplished via glass candle.

She has an agenda involving Daenerys, and anything she says to her or causes her to see in dreams is done to drive her towards these goals. Quaithe clearly wants Daenerys to go Asshai, and she's not alone in that: several other characters are also pushing her in that direction, chiefly those who have some connection to the Hightower/Citadel faction.

So while looking critically at Quaithe is important, as she's obviously a player in the mythic game (ie, the game that actually matters) it's a mistake to treat what she says as prophecy when we have no reason to believe she has that ability. I think we can take her words at face value in terms of what she is urging Daenerys to do.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

58 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

This stuff: 

 

I never said the Starks were Targaryens by blood. I only pointed out that both Starks and Targaryens married Blackwoods around the same time, and that's the blood that they share. If Betha and Melantha were sisters as a few people, including myself, suspect, then their Blackwood blood makes the Targaryens and the Starks actual cousins. And it makes the Starks at the time of Bloodraven at the Wall kin to him because of their Blackwood blood. 

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I never said the Starks were Targaryens by blood. I only pointed out that both Starks and Targaryens married Blackwoods around the same time, and that's the blood that they share. If Betha and Melantha were sisters as a few people, including myself, suspect, then their Blackwood blood makes the Targaryens and the Starks actual cousins. And it makes the Starks at the time of Bloodraven at the Wall kin to him because of their Blackwood blood. 

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