Kalbear Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 Fuck it I'm just gonna talk about libertarians getting fucked up by bears Quote Or at least—not yet. Statewide, a perverse synergy between conservationist and austerity impulses in New Hampshire governance has translated into an approach to “bear management” policy that could accurately be described as laissez-faire. When Graftonites sought help from New Hampshire Fish and Game officials, they received little more than reminders that killing bears without a license is illegal, and plenty of highly dubious victim-blaming to boot. Had not the woman savaged by a bear been cooking a pot roast at the time? No? Well, nevertheless. Even when the state has tried to rein in the population with culls, it has been too late. Between 1998 and 2013, the number of bears doubled in the wildlife management region that includes Grafton. “Something’s Bruin in New Hampshire—Learn to Live with Bears,” the state’s literature advises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 minute ago, DMC said: I think you're vastly underestimating the inclination for Republicans both in government and the electorate to instantly turn on losers. This is why Mitt Romney and John McCain had such a shitty career post POTUS run 1 minute ago, DMC said: Plus you're vastly underestimating the GOP electorate's ADD - and this extends to the American public, the political media, and especially the right wing media. I think we all agree that the GOP will become even more extreme and authoritarian, but that's really just describing the continued trends in polarization the past 40 years. I think that Trump has tapped into the hate that a lot of people have been wanting to express for a long time and are now entirely addicted to it. And media is addicted to this as well - their ratings and views are absurdly up. They're going to give him a megaphone every single day. The only reason they'll pass on that is because they find a better drug to give them their fix. I know you hate to do it, but Hitler didn't go away after losing once and even being jailed for a bit. His popularity didn't go down. Especially if Republicans are putting the austerity measures into full effect during a recession. We have not seen a Republican leader with the kind of cult of personality that Trump has, well, ever. The closest might have been Reagan, but even that is probably wrong. This is something the US hasn't had to deal with in a long time, and I don't think comparing Trump to Romney or McCain or GHWB is remotely the right thing. Republicans aren't used to loving their candidates, and that ain't going to just disappear. 1 minute ago, DMC said: If Trump loses convincingly he won't have a chance in 2024. Again, people simply aren't going to have the attention span to care about his whining for four years that the election was "stolen." Which is why we're not talking about Clinton's emails or Benghazi O WAIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, Kalibear said: This is why Mitt Romney and John McCain had such a shitty career post POTUS run K, if you're saying Trump could win a Senate race somewhere (albeit obviously not New York), maybe. Doubt he'd want to. 1 minute ago, Kalibear said: The only reason they'll pass on that is because they find a better drug to give them their fix. Exactly. The media will search for a new face to articulate the GOP's hate and authoritarianism. Particularly the rightwing media. And there are plenty of fascists in training to compete for the mantle. 4 minutes ago, Kalibear said: The closest might have been Reagan, but even that is probably wrong. This is something the US hasn't had to deal with in a long time, and I don't think comparing Trump to Romney or McCain or GHWB is remotely the right thing. Republicans aren't used to loving their candidates, and that ain't going to just disappear. Reagan definitely is at least as much of a cult of personality as Trump. Dubya had a pretty damn comparably strong stranglehold on the GOP for a good while as well - certainly in regards to actual measurables. I do agree Trump clearly is not comparable to the other three mentioned in this regard - I didn't specifically bring any of them up, you did. My point about them cannibalizing their leaders the past 30 years is a broad trend that extends to Congress and promptly ousting Gingrich, Lott, Delay, Boehner, Cantor, Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Ran said: that the GOP is resigned to Trump losing Yeah we had this conversation in 2016, as well. The GOP was on its last legs, bleeding out, all but dead...And yet here we are. I won't buy it until I see the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 27 minutes ago, Kalibear said: Which is why we're not talking about Clinton's emails or Benghazi O WAIT Missed this. Trump doing this in desperation at the eleventh hour is hardly evidence anyone else cares. In fact considering his continued harping on Hillary and Obama and corresponding current state in the polls supports my point that nobody cares anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonak Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, Kalibear said: Trump isn't polling nearly as badly as Bush is. Which is about the biggest indictment of the US population as I can possibly think. If people want to know where my pessimism is, it's that Trump has a 43% approval rate when over 200k US citizens have died and 25 million more people got added to unemployment and 8 million more people got added to the ranks of those in poverty - and that's not even getting into ALL THE OTHER BULLSHIT. 43%. Fuuuuuuck I think it's going to be office seekers. His endorsement and his rallying is going to be felt for a long time. And honestly? If he loses, he'll run in 2024 unless he's in jail. Or maybe even then. It worked out okay. Not super crazy long, but there's a direct line from her bullshit to birtherism of Trump to his rise. But I think there's going to be a lot more of that. That's what he's good at, and he's not going to run out of air. I think this all comes down to the success of the Right Wing Propaganda machine. Everyone who watches it continues to support Trump no matter what because they're fed a line that makes them think that way. Its not a news channel, or a news radio, or news websites, they're all a huge web of brain washing propaganda that literally changes people into someone else. I've watched it happen to multiple otherwise sane and intelligent relatives. Even my college degreed sister will now rant about the vague horrific "evils of socialism." A huge portion of the american public are at one time completely ignorant of reality, and also fanatically believing they know the "truth about what's going on." Its a huge enormous cult, festering at the heart of american Christianity. Like the Fremen of Arrakis, they were ripe for a prophet, and they found him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonak Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, DMC said: Missed this. Trump doing this in desperation at the eleventh hour is hardly evidence anyone else cares. In fact considering his continued harping on Hillary and Obama and corresponding current state in the polls supports my point that nobody cares anymore. His rock solid base polling seems to disagree with you. A huge portion of them still care because their cult leaders keep shouting about it, even though its utter nonsense with no facts behind it. Look how much traction him making up Obamagate whole cloth got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Part of me thinks that this high polling for Biden is just going to convince lazy and apathetic Dem* voters to stay home. Hope that's not the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, argonak said: His rock solid base polling seems to disagree with you. A huge portion of them still care because their cult leaders keep shouting about it, even though its utter nonsense with no facts behind it. Look how much traction him making up Obamagate whole cloth got. Look, I'm definitely not going to deny that his polling stability reflects his cult of personality. But he also hasn't lost yet. And frankly any incumbent president running for reelection should AT LEAST have his level of support at this state in the race simply due to polarization. As for "Obamagate" gaining traction, where? Obviously not in the polls if they've been so stable. If you're saying he's successfully garnered attention to it among the rightwing media and officials for work for him, well sure he's the president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Surprise surprise, Chris Christie told the NYT that he was wrong not to wear a mask at the Barrett announcement party, and wrong not to wear a mask at the debate prep meetings, that he didn’t take Covid-19 seriously enough. He spent 12 days in intensive care after he checked himself into hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Kalibear said: I don't think this is accurate; the amount of worship Trump himself gets is not going to easily dissipate. Romney and McCain were disposable, but Trump has a fanbase the same bizarre way that Kardashians do. A better example would probably be Palin, who had a really weird post-election run with a lot more followers than one would expect - and a LOT of influence on what the Republican party would become. No, I think that Trump's influence is going to be felt for a long time. I dunno. The Republican party seems to eat the people responsible for losing the White House. In Palin's case she wasn't responsible, McCain was responsible. The running mate has basically no influence on an election, and so she could build up her fanbase, keep saying maverick and pivot after the election. Trump, if he loses, will be a 1 term Republican POTUS, that is a failure and the Christian right will turn on him as having failed because of his moral corruption, and he let a Jew into his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, DMC said: Right - like I said, she personified the party's worst trends. But at a personal level her political career was pretty well immediately caput and she didn't even last long as an influential rightwing media personality (I'll grant Trump could definitely be much more successful here). Both she and he were grifters all their lives, before and during, and he'll continue to be after, just like she did. Tells us that either the voters of the gops can't see a grifter even when one's got a hand in their pockets, or that they just plain outright luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrve grifters. The differences between the two is that she's female 1) so wasn't able to keep ongoing support going on long enough to really cash in -- some knock-off designer wear just don't make the league of casinos and golf courses; 2) and that he's male and has international support and assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Zorral said: The differences between the two is that she's female 1) so wasn't able to keep ongoing support going on long enough to really cash in -- some knock-off designer wear just don't make the league of casinos and golf courses; 2) and that he's male and has international support and assistance. I agree that him being male gives him a much larger advantage on making inroads as an influential media personality. Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. weren't going to share with Palin. They may well have to step aside for Trump. But the other aspect to this whole discussion of Trump on a personal level is the obvious we haven't brought up - he's also a very old, unhealthy and lazy man. ETA: Also, his international support will immediately evaporate if he loses the presidency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: Lol, he couldn’t be bothered to vote for Obama, maybe he voted for Trump? The funniest thing is the fact that he’s been involved in “go out and vote” commercials with the guys he broadcasts with. I thought he was doing the commercials to use his role-model position because he’s voted all his life. I guess his commercial finally convinced him voting was a good thing. Maybe it occurred to him he'd look silly if anyone asked him if he voted himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: I dunno. The Republican party seems to eat the people responsible for losing the White House. In Palin's case she wasn't responsible, McCain was responsible. he also could not raise much funding could he? I thought the big republican donors didn't go for him. I thought he might be someone the party let run when they thought they'd lose anyway. I am not in the US and only kept a vague eye on that election so don't bite my head off if I'm wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Castellan said: he also could not raise much funding could he? I thought the big republican donors didn't go for him. He built up a very impressive warchest early this cycle. He just embezzled a bunch of it to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, DMC said: He built up a very impressive warchest early this cycle. He just embezzled a bunch of it to himself. are we talking about McCain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Oh, no, I thought you were referring to Trump. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Kalibear said: Fuck it I'm just gonna talk about libertarians getting fucked up by bears This is clearly a hate crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said: This is clearly a hate crime. Pretty early in the discussion for you to pull the species card. Why won't you address the real problem, bear on bear crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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