Alyn Oakenfist Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 So were does Duck's, Hadon's and Lemore's true loyalties lie? In Griff and Young griff or do they answer to the fat man first thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Their loyalty is to fAegon. Including Jon Connington. These people are fairly invested in raising the young prince, which has taken literally years. They know each other, but seem to be annoyed and impatient with Illyrio. So it seems likely that they are not loyal to Illyrio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Connington and Duck are completely loyal to Aegon. I'm not sure about Haldon and Lemore, but they seem pretty loyal. But Yandry and Ysilla... If you don't remember, they are the owners of the Shy Maid, and they are Orphans of the Greenblood. Orphans are off course the most Rhoynar amongst the Dornish, and Y&Y are so Rhoynar that they moved back to the Rhoyne (if they are in the Rhoyne, are they no longer orphans?). The thing is Rhoynar are supposed to hate Valiryans, after all Valiryans kicked them out of Essos, but they are helping what could be called one of the last Valiryans (and they do know about Aegon, as when Tyrion Puzzles him out he says out loud "He knows who I am" without caring who would listen). This is some weird bit of trivia for me actually, they could be Doran's spies, but it would require him to be a fucking great spy master to be able to plant them successfully there, and he would need to know where they would be and what they would do, which negates the need for spies. Also, I doubt Yandry and Ysilla would show up again, their relation to Aegon's cause has ended. Maybe GRRM just liked the idea of a Dornish couple being so Rhoynar obsessed they moved back to Mother Rhoyne, but is still a weird choice to have them help one of the lasts Valiryans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 12 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: So were does Duck's, Hadon's and Lemore's true loyalties lie? In Griff and Young griff or do they answer to the fat man first thing? So Duck, dude got a cloak. Its over for him, thats Aegons boy from now on. Haldon and Lemore I have no idea, but if I were to guess itd be to Jon. Now Jons loyalty is to Aegon, not fAegon. Young Griff better be careful to not show the sword Blackfyre to his false father or any of his fine false friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: So Duck, dude got a cloak. Its over for him, thats Aegons boy from now on. Haldon and Lemore I have no idea, but if I were to guess itd be to Jon. Now Jons loyalty is to Aegon, not fAegon. Young Griff better be careful to not show the sword Blackfyre to his false father or any of his fine false friends Surely the fact that the Golden Company is supporting fAegon should be enough of a tip-off that he might not be the Targaryen that Connington thinks he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Canon Claude said: Surely the fact that the Golden Company is supporting fAegon should be enough of a tip-off that he might not be the Targaryen that Connington thinks he is? Jons a fool. Although, I guess hes not. Just a fool in love. Unfortunately his love is long dead and thats not his kid. I mean, we know that the GC laughed in Viserys' face (probably around the time Roberts entire army was in the iron islands) but Conn doesn't. Lol con. Eventually itll tip off. That dudes head is gonna turn red, redder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FictionIsntReal Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: Young Griff better be careful to not show the sword Blackfyre to his false father or any of his fine false friends Blackfyre has been wielded by Targaryen kings from Aegon I to IV. Why wouldn't Jon Connington want Rhaegar's surviving child to have it? 1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said: (probably around the time Roberts entire army was in the iron islands) Why "probably"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Yandry and Ysilla are Rhoynar because of George's worldbuilding. In AFfC, we are introduced to Mother Rhoyne, the Old Man of the River and the Crab King through Garin who is an Orphan. In ADwD, YG & Co are traveling down the Rhoyne, so Yandry and Ysilla pick up some of the exposition where Garin left off, more specifically with the geography and the gods. And if YG is Elia and Rhaegar's son, then he wouldn't be just part Dornishman (something the Blackfyres are not). He would have the blood of the Rhoynar as well (which is something the Blackfyres don't have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: Yandry and Ysilla are Rhoynar because of George's worldbuilding. In AFfC, we are introduced to Mother Rhoyne, the Old Man of the River and the Crab King through Garin who is an Orphan. In ADwD, YG & Co are traveling down the Rhoyne, so Yandry and Ysilla pick up some of the exposition where Garin left off, more specifically with the geography and the gods. And if YG is Elia and Rhaegar's son, then he wouldn't be just part Dornishman (something the Blackfyres are not). He would have the blood of the Rhoynar as well (which is something the Blackfyres don't have). The bold part I agree with for being the most likely explanation, but the rest doesn't sound right to me. I think the best explanation would be that I'm thinking too much about it/George didn't consider the implications, but despite Rhoynar blood, Aegon is a Valiryan, and no Rhoynar-loving person should want to put him on the throne. Doran has a likely explanation in him being his blood, but the Orphans romanticize the old Rhoynar, their ideals, their culture and their laws, Aegon shares none of that and is a descendant from the people who destroyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, CamiloRP said: I think the best explanation would be that I'm thinking too much about it/George didn't consider the implications, but despite Rhoynar blood, Aegon is a Valiryan, and no Rhoynar-loving person should want to put him on the throne. Doran has a likely explanation in him being his blood, but the Orphans romanticize the old Rhoynar, their ideals, their culture and their laws, Aegon shares none of that and is a descendant from the people who destroyed it. And that's fine if that's how you view it. I'm just not sure why would Yandry and Ysilla hold YG's blood against him. He had nothing to do with what happened to the Rhoynar. It would be like YG holding Tywin's actions against Tyrion even though he had nothing to do with the Sack of King's Landing and the death of his family. It would be like Jon holding Fat Walda's unborn child responsible for the Red Wedding and the Sack of Winterfell. This is the BwB putting Sandor Clegane on trial for his brother's crimes. It's this guilt by association that keeps the cycle of vengeance and blood going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Title/OP The Pisswater Prince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: And that's fine if that's how you view it. I'm just not sure why would Yandry and Ysilla hold YG's blood against him. He had nothing to do with what happened to the Rhoynar. It would be like YG holding Tywin's actions against Tyrion even though he had nothing to do with the Sack of King's Landing and the death of his family. It would be like Jon holding Fat Walda's unborn child responsible for the Red Wedding and the Sack of Winterfell. This is the BwB putting Sandor Clegane on trial for his brother's crimes. It's this guilt by association that keeps the cycle of vengeance and blood going. I'm not saying they should kill him or anything like that, but it's weird that so Rhoynar oriented people would help a Valiryan rule over them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FictionIsntReal Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 11 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: And if YG is Elia and Rhaegar's son, then he wouldn't be just part Dornishman (something the Blackfyres are not) They're not as far as we know, but we only know of Daemon Blackfyre marrying Rohanne of Tyrosh. We don't know of any subsequent marriages. It's not impossible for some Rhoynar ancestry to be introduced later on... but since Rhoynar in Essos tend to be "Orphans" who immigrated back like Yandry & Ysilla I suppose it is much less likely. As for Yandry & Ysilla themselves, they don't live in Westeros and don't have to be that invested in its politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 23 hours ago, CamiloRP said: I'm not saying they should kill him or anything like that, but it's weird that so Rhoynar oriented people would help a Valiryan rule over them again. Just about 15 years ago during sacking of King's Landing Lannisters murdered many Goldcloaks and their relatives. But that little thing did not seem to bother them at all and they stayed loyal to Tywin's daughter and grandson. So commoners did not seem to care about little things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said: Just about 15 years ago during sacking of King's Landing Lannisters murdered many Goldcloaks and their relatives. But that little thing did not seem to bother them at all and they stayed loyal to Tywin's daughter and grandson. So commoners did not seem to care about little things it's not the same tho, and most goldcloaks are probably new hires (management specially). It'd be like Inca descendants campaigning for a Spaniard to rule Latin America, and even worse than that as Aegon has no political plans nor anything, his whole pitch is "I'm rightful king, fuck off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 21 hours ago, CamiloRP said: it's not the same tho, and most goldcloaks are probably new hires (management specially). But most of them are hired from King's Landing and even their previous commander seemed to be son of butcher. So I assume that most of them are commoners. Or nobles for some reason do not want to become watchmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Loose Bolt said: But most of them are hired from King's Landing and even their previous commander seemed to be son of butcher. So I assume that most of them are commoners. Or nobles for some reason do not want to become watchmen. yeah that's true, still there's no cultural clash, no persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reekazoid Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Strictly speaking YG/fAegon is bound for Westeros and if he does manage to rule it will be there, not in Essos. So Y&Y wouldn't be helping him to rule over themselves, unless they go back to Westeros too. Which it seems unlikely considering how much they love the Rhoyne. For all we know the price of their service and silence was "Help take care of this kid, report back, but otherwise keep your mouth shut, in exchange for which we'll take you back to mother Rhoyne and set you up on a nice houseboat. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 16 hours ago, CamiloRP said: yeah that's true, still there's no cultural clash, no persecution. I assume that hunting down and murdering children, Lannisters way of thinking themselves as some kind of higher beings who are more equal than others and king's tendency to hunt people with crossbow are multiculturism instead of persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said: I assume that hunting down and murdering children, Lannisters way of thinking themselves as some kind of higher beings who are more equal than others and king's tendency to hunt people with crossbow are multiculturism instead of persecution. that's not equivalent to kicking people out of their lands, waring against them and committing genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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