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Let's hear it for THE BOYS [Onwards to Season 3]


Veltigar
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They're also in Homelander's home. Between not wanting to actually kill Maeve and not wanting to destroy Vought tower I think his restraint makes sense. The criticism seems more fair with SB, but it didn't bother me

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Great season, the best one so far. But unfortunately the last episode was the worst of any season, as far as I recall. 

That said, it wasn't THAT bad. Pretty bad, but Stranger Things' finale was worse than this one. Way worse. 

I also kinda got the impression that Homelander didn't want to kill Maeve (forced mother and all that) but the episode was so jank they never properly set that (or a bunch of other shit) up. 

 

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51 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Also, they're fighting in close quarters where Homelander can't fully use his advantages of speed and flying.

He could have if he wanted to.

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Just finished it. I wasn't as down on the finale as the rest of you it seems, though I agree it was the weakest of the 3 season finales and it does set the story back to square 1. At the beginning, Butcher's motivation to keep going after Homelander right from the get-go didn't quite for me, and even moreso that that the rest of the Boys followed. I did like that Butcher became the same, almost indistinguishable asshole that Homelander is. 

Soldier Boy's motivation to kill Homelander and beat up Ryan didn't jive with me. If it was supposed to be due to PTSD-style paranoia and machinations... well it didn't come off that way and his heel turn was basically the writers needing a new Stormfront in order to preserve Homelander in the finishing act of the storyline. Felt like they could have done something less predictable.

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22 hours ago, WarGalley said:

Soldier Boy's motivation to kill Homelander and beat up Ryan didn't jive with me. If it was supposed to be due to PTSD-style paranoia and machinations... well it didn't come off that way and his heel turn was basically the writers needing a new Stormfront in order to preserve Homelander in the finishing act of the storyline. Felt like they could have done something less predictable.

I thought it made perfect sense.  He became his old man and no son was ever going to be good enough the same way he was never good enough.

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5 hours ago, Zorral said:

They are franchising the heck out of this, with spin-offs, etc.  I doubt I'll be watching any more of it, as it's turned into the very thing they pretended their motivation was to satirize.

 

So complicated response coming to a complicated thing... 

I had -I' assuming a little on your part- that same :gag: response to seeing that they're making a Teenage spinoff. That's pure corporate demograbbing. It's a real life parody of the show that's parodying real life... 

But that's the world we livin' in, baby. We are in the most fuckwitted timeline. 

I believe in the satire, and in the artistic message of The Boys. As in, I believe that the show is honest in it's relentless skewering of corporatism and authoritarianism and general hero worship. It's too good not to be honest. Too real. The Deep eating Timothy is exactly what fiction was made for. Insert every one of those Trumpian ghouls who had to endure his pettiness into that scene and you get a new lense from which to view how small, how pathetic, the people who gain power in our systems really are. 

This show has something to say. That's why it resonates. In an age of hero worship and wilful ignorance as to what the people in power are really like, The Boys is making an effort to show you how malicious and inexhaustible evil really is. 

Y'all are all upset that the show 'isn't progressing' because 'Homelander isn't beaten' or whatever, you're missing the point. The progress of the show is that the heroes have fought and grown and changed or died to show how evil, cynical, and brutal Homelander and Vought are... But people don't care. They like it when he rants and raves. They like it when he kills people they don't like.

Sound a little familiar?

Not clapping high-fives and banishing Thanos at the end for a happily ever after is the point.

2 hours ago, briantw said:

I thought it made perfect sense.  He became his old man and no son was ever going to be good enough the same way he was never good enough.

Yeah, that seemed so inevitable. That was like the only good part about the last episode. Homelander + Soldier Boy's daddy issues = fight

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1 hour ago, Babblebauble said:

The Boys is making an effort to show you how malicious and inexhaustible evil really is. 

Ya, becoming part of it, for the very same reason -- making profit.

It's not anything new and revelatory to me or anyone. 

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4 hours ago, briantw said:

I thought it made perfect sense.  He became his old man and no son was ever going to be good enough the same way he was never good enough.

Actually I do like that tying along with the Daddy issues faced by Butcher, Homelander and Ryan. It just didn't click in the moment so I might have missed something I can catch on re-watch. 

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I really liked the moral choice given to Hughie along with the justification for it when viewing it alongside the others in that way. Turning into their fathers alongside projecting strength that's actually just a hollow shell covering up how empty and miserable they are is contrasted against the father that didn't give two shits about what other people thought but showed strength of character in prioritising his son during a painful period.

That was pay off that's been coming since the first episode of season 1 - he blew up at his dad about the pizza rolls after Robin's death.

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9 hours ago, briantw said:

I thought it made perfect sense.  He became his old man and no son was ever going to be good enough the same way he was never good enough.

That was my reading as well, but I do feel they somewhat bungled it. It should have been more explicit and I also believe that the inclusion of Ryan didn't make any sense. Soldier Boy hating what Homelander had become (basically himself, only even more needy due to living in the social media age) was set up properly, but Ryan was still a blank slate for him. The promise of salvation of raising "a real man" was right their in the offering so to endanger him seemed not quite right to me.

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6 hours ago, Veltigar said:

That was my reading as well, but I do feel they somewhat bungled it. It should have been more explicit and I also believe that the inclusion of Ryan didn't make any sense. Soldier Boy hating what Homelander had become (basically himself, only even more needy due to living in the social media age) was set up properly, but Ryan was still a blank slate for him. The promise of salvation of raising "a real man" was right their in the offering so to endanger him seemed not quite right to me.

with SB, I think they could have played into the jaded/jaundiced with life thing a little bit, and had his decision to take on HL play out as his death wish. 

After all SB has been relentlessly tortured, betrayed by everyone he "cared" about, and has nothing to live for anymore beyond vengeance.  Particularly after the first fight with HL where its quite clear that he is stronger than SB, it only makes sense for SB to reject HL's offer of a family, if he himself has decided to commit suicide and take HL/Ryan with him.  The daddy issues could be a manifestation of that self-loathing.  But by making it *just* about the daddy issues,  it feels out of left field (particularly since the daddy issues were raised about 15 minutes before the fight).  I get they wanted to keep us in suspense as to which way SB would turn.  

With the whole doomsday thing, I think that's exactly where they are going with SB.  He will made a brainwashed jihadi style weapon to take out HL.  Meanwhile HL will be on his let's rule the world arc.  

I don't like the Butcher is dying storyline because I doubt they are actually going to kill the character, and his last minute reprieve by a supe that can heal or something, will just feel like the show is not playing for keeps.  It's astonishing to me that so many people still haven't internalize the GoT story-telling lesson that you have to kill your darlings.  

As for the spin-offs, meh.  I couldn't force myself to watch the cartoon beyond an episode.  I'll wait to see if folks here like it before dipping my toe into those waters.  Rather re-watch the Tudors instead.  

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6 hours ago, Veltigar said:

That was my reading as well, but I do feel they somewhat bungled it. It should have been more explicit and I also believe that the inclusion of Ryan didn't make any sense. Soldier Boy hating what Homelander had become (basically himself, only even more needy due to living in the social media age) was set up properly, but Ryan was still a blank slate for him. The promise of salvation of raising "a real man" was right their in the offering so to endanger him seemed not quite right to me.

Well it's entirely possible that he would have considered taking Ryan under his wing after he killed HL. But his attitude towards Ryan is immediately revealed after Butcher tells him of Ryan's mother. It's a callous attitude, which is the same attitude he's had about people throughout the season. Similar to how he responds to MM when he's told he had killed MM's family or about accepting casualties in conflict etc.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Well it's entirely possible that he would have considered taking Ryan under his wing after he killed HL. But his attitude towards Ryan is immediately revealed after Butcher tells him of Ryan's mother. It's a callous attitude, which is the same attitude he's had about people throughout the season. Similar to how he responds to MM when he's told he had killed MM's family or about accepting casualties in conflict etc.

Doesn't he beat Ryan like straight away? It's a bit of a blur I'll admit, but that did not seem on the table at any point for him which I thought was rather strange.

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I don't like the Butcher is dying storyline because I doubt they are actually going to kill the character, and his last minute reprieve by a supe that can heal or something, will just feel like the show is not playing for keeps.  It's astonishing to me that so many people still haven't internalize the GoT story-telling lesson that you have to kill your darlings.   

Definitely agree here. I can't imagine him dying from brain cancer at the end of his arc. They'll probably deus-ex-machina it away which is kind of cheap, but let us give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

with SB, I think they could have played into the jaded/jaundiced with life thing a little bit, and had his decision to take on HL play out as his death wish. 

After all SB has been relentlessly tortured, betrayed by everyone he "cared" about, and has nothing to live for anymore beyond vengeance.  Particularly after the first fight with HL where its quite clear that he is stronger than SB, it only makes sense for SB to reject HL's offer of a family, if he himself has decided to commit suicide and take HL/Ryan with him.  The daddy issues could be a manifestation of that self-loathing.  But by making it *just* about the daddy issues,  it feels out of left field (particularly since the daddy issues were raised about 15 minutes before the fight).  I get they wanted to keep us in suspense as to which way SB would turn.  

Not sure that I agree there. For me the self-loathing and daddy issues were obviously deeply entwined already. It is quite clear that Soldier Boy, not unlike Homelander, has a strong craving for familial bonds. After all, that is why the betrayal of Payback felt so harsh to him, because for him they were his family, with himself as the dysfunctional Pater Familias in the middle of it all. 

Only it turned out that his perception of them as family was wrong. Not only did they betray him, they all did so willingly as is revealed later on. This brings back all SB's feeling of inadequacy as instilled in him by his disappointed father. It made him hate himself more and then he gets the offer of a true family with Homelander. The only issue is, is that Homelander is Soldier Boy to the power of two. Physically stronger, but emotionally even weaker and in dire need of familial affection and the adoration of the crows. So his self-loathing and daddy issues collide in his outright rejection off and violence towards Homelander.

Up until that point, I'm totally onboard (even though I think its stupid. Soldier Boy might be physically weaker but he would have dominated Homelander emotionally), but I do not think that Ryan fits in that from an emotional point of view. Soldier Boy always wanted a son, he wants a family and he wants to desperately proof that his deceased old man was wrong about him. What would be more liberating than to literally browbeat a stronger man into submission and raise that boy into becoming a real man worthy of Soldier Boy's legacy.

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20 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Doesn't he beat Ryan like straight away? It's a bit of a blur I'll admit, but that did not seem on the table at any point for him which I thought was rather strange.

Ryan lasers him first to get him off HL. SB smacks him with the shield in return.

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14 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Ryan lasers him first to get him off HL. SB smacks him with the shield in return.

Yeah, seems like he should have had a pause in there.

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On 7/20/2022 at 3:06 AM, Zorral said:

Ya, becoming part of it, for the very same reason -- making profit.

It's not anything new and revelatory to me or anyone. 

I mean its a TV show, what did you expect it to do? If its not making profit its getting cancelled.

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